What would YOU have Star Trek IX and X be?

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I mean, DS9 affected the Trek universe effectively during INS and NEM times. And both films have been expressed as of being inconsistent and irrelevant to the post-Dominion Federation world.

What would you have done with them?

 

[santa biggles]

I still think there's some merit to Michael Piller's rejected first approach to Insurrection. The first half of the story was Apocalypse Now, with Picard as Captain Willard and Data as Colonel Kurtz, with Picard and crew going "up the river" in search of Data, who has installed himself as protector of the Ba'ku. Picard kills Data, but then finds out that Data was right all along, so the second half of the film turns into The Magnificent Seven, as the crew defend the Ba'ku against the Romulans and the eeeeeevil Starfleet Admiral.

It's never really clear how far Piller got with this; Patrick Stewart rejected it early on (after Generations and First Contact, he wanted to do something lighter), and since he was the star of the film, an associate producer, and drawing nearly a fifth of the film's production budget in salary, who was Piller to argue?

Elements of the original story certainly remained to the end; the Apocalypse Now stuff gets resolved pretty quickly with Data being captured and restored to normal functioning. And the crew do still stand and fight for the Ba'ku, though the Romulans were replaced with the Son'a.

 

[Plecostomus]

I'd do Insurrection as a Federation Civil War, with a rouge admiral attempting to break off several planets. He would of course be a Changeling but this is all discovered during the story. In the end he is uncovered, the plot foiled and the Federation made whole again, stronger than ever and ready for the end of the Dominion War. This would explain the fleet shortages alluded to in Deep Space Nine and why they couldn't move certain assets around to support Sisko's plans. This would be an action adventure with a nice fleet battle, Federation Vs Federation ships, neither fleet wanting to really rip into the other fleet because no one wants to pit Brother Against Brother.


I'd redo Nemesis, instead of making it a ripoff of WoK I'd make the following changes:

There is a power-grab on the Romulan Homeworld, one of the client races backed by elements in the government topple the rulers. The Enterprise is called in by these new leaders to negotiate a peace, but it becomes clear that they are being manipulated. It is determined that there is a super-weapon, aimed at Earth and the Enterprise tries to stop it, as the legit Romulan Government. The usurpers then aim the weapon at the Romulan Homeworld in an attempt to cow the legit government and one or more major characters dies in an attempt to destroy the device. This would be a true "spirit of Trek" moment, bringing peace by saving the home of your worst enemy at the cost of your own life.

*shrug* This is how I would do it. These stories interest me, but I don't know if they would appeal to the man on the street OR the casual Trek-fan.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ I like this.

 

[Cyke101]

Considering that, at the time these two films were made, we had fare like Contact, Event Horizon, AI, and K-Pax, I'd bring Trek back to its exploratory roots, maybe even reintroduce some existentialist themes just like TMP. Mysteries and horrors and rewards that aren't apparent at first but would speak of the human condition.

Don't get me wrong, I like outer space battles, but let's see them fight only if they have to, up against new and fantastic threats, all in the name of exploration. Insurrection was a domestic dispute and politics, and Nemesis was a play-by-play action movie with little depth. Neither are really Trek staples.

 

[Philo]

^ QFT.

Very well said.

 

[Michael]

^ QFT.

But you haven't quoted anything!

 

[Philo]

It seemed kinda redundant.

I've been enjoying all of your avatars in the past few weeks, btw.

 

[Broccoli]

If there needed to be a change, I would have liked for the films to have a "continuing thread" from one film to the next the way the TOS films kinda did. It might tone down the "this feels like a two-part episode".

I still think there's some merit to Michael Piller's rejected first approach to Insurrection. The first half of the story was Apocalypse Now, with Picard as Captain Willard and Data as Colonel Kurtz, with Picard and crew going "up the river" in search of Data, who has installed himself as protector of the Ba'ku. Picard kills Data, but then finds out that Data was right all along, so the second half of the film turns into The Magnificent Seven, as the crew defend the Ba'ku against the Romulans and the eeeeeevil Starfleet Admiral.

If memory serves, Pillar rejected it himself as well, as he felt that the two types of stories just didn't mesh well with one another.

I'd do Insurrection as a Federation Civil War, with a rouge admiral attempting to break off several planets. He would of course be a Changeling but this is all discovered during the story. In the end he is uncovered, the plot foiled and the Federation made whole again, stronger than ever and ready for the end of the Dominion War. This would explain the fleet shortages alluded to in Deep Space Nine and why they couldn't move certain assets around to support Sisko's plans. This would be an action adventure with a nice fleet battle, Federation Vs Federation ships, neither fleet wanting to really rip into the other fleet because no one wants to pit Brother Against Brother.

Would never work as it would be stepping on DS9's toes too much, especially with a Founder being the villain. I think that would be touching on DS9's Territory a bit too much.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Considering that, at the time these two films were made, we had fare like Contact, Event Horizon, AI, and K-Pax, I'd bring Trek back to its exploratory roots, maybe even reintroduce some existentialist themes just like TMP. Mysteries and horrors and rewards that aren't apparent at first but would speak of the human condition.

Don't get me wrong, I like outer space battles, but let's see them fight only if they have to, up against new and fantastic threats, all in the name of exploration. Insurrection was a domestic dispute and politics, and Nemesis was a play-by-play action movie with little depth. Neither are really Trek staples.

See, now I say stuff like this all the time and people treat me like the crazy loony uncle that no one wants to talk to at Christmas.

 

[cultcross]

I'd redo Nemesis, instead of making it a ripoff of WoK I'd make the following changes:

There is a power-grab on the Romulan Homeworld, one of the client races backed by elements in the government topple the rulers. The Enterprise is called in by these new leaders to negotiate a peace, but it becomes clear that they are being manipulated. It is determined that there is a super-weapon, aimed at Earth and the Enterprise tries to stop it, as the legit Romulan Government. The usurpers then aim the weapon at the Romulan Homeworld in an attempt to cow the legit government and one or more major characters dies in an attempt to destroy the device. This would be a true "spirit of Trek" moment, bringing peace by saving the home of your worst enemy at the cost of your own life.

I would go and watch that! I think that story treatment would be fantastic, perhaps add a romulan who tries to stop the attack on earth, gets killed, and then the weapon gets turned on Romulus for his trouble. Then one of our people dies (not Data, someone we care about. Picard himself would have been brave) to save Romulus and destroy the weapon. Both sides save each other at enormous cost. Then it ends with Riker and Troi beginnings negotiations for a real peace. Keeping up a bit with the Undiscovered Country tradition of ending the movie series with a peace treaty

As for Insurrection, I felt it had two fatal flaws.
1. The Ba'ku - we'd never met them before, they were quite annoying and self-righteous, and I for one didn't feel the audience cared enough about them for the stakes to feel all that high. I would have used an established race, or had the race have some connection to one of the crew, perhaps survivors from Data's old colony, or something like that. Just a small morsel to grab hold of in order to actually care what happens to these people.
2. The easy way out, run and tell daddy. I would have done away with the Briar Patch, had them be in full communication with Starfleet, and for the Federation Council to turn round and say 'yeh, we approved that. what's your point?' If it's going to be an 'insurrection', it needs to be against more than just one annoying Admiral and the Son'a. Make it as big a gamble as stealing the Enterprise in TSFS. Make us think 'whoa, will they come back from this?'

Considering that, at the time these two films were made, we had fare like Contact, Event Horizon, AI, and K-Pax, I'd bring Trek back to its exploratory roots, maybe even reintroduce some existentialist themes just like TMP. Mysteries and horrors and rewards that aren't apparent at first but would speak of the human condition.

Now an exploration type story I'm fine with, but please, God, not another TMP. I can only take so much staring awestruck into the viewscreen.

 

[Ward Fowler]

I'd do Insurrection as a Federation Civil War, with a rouge admiral attempting to break off several planets. He would of course be a Changeling but this is all discovered during the story. In the end he is uncovered, the plot foiled and the Federation made whole again, stronger than ever and ready for the end of the Dominion War. This would explain the fleet shortages alluded to in Deep Space Nine and why they couldn't move certain assets around to support Sisko's plans. This would be an action adventure with a nice fleet battle, Federation Vs Federation ships, neither fleet wanting to really rip into the other fleet because no one wants to pit Brother Against Brother.


I'd redo Nemesis, instead of making it a ripoff of WoK I'd make the following changes:

There is a power-grab on the Romulan Homeworld, one of the client races backed by elements in the government topple the rulers. The Enterprise is called in by these new leaders to negotiate a peace, but it becomes clear that they are being manipulated. It is determined that there is a super-weapon, aimed at Earth and the Enterprise tries to stop it, as the legit Romulan Government. The usurpers then aim the weapon at the Romulan Homeworld in an attempt to cow the legit government and one or more major characters dies in an attempt to destroy the device. This would be a true "spirit of Trek" moment, bringing peace by saving the home of your worst enemy at the cost of your own life.

*shrug* This is how I would do it. These stories interest me, but I don't know if they would appeal to the man on the street OR the casual Trek-fan.

sounds better than what actually happened

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Those sound like good plots!

 

[CaptainStoner]

INS
- a comedic character on the villian side, maybe having to do with the face stretching. Having some comedy on the villian side would make it easier to darken up the main characters a little. Like having a completely unnecessary Worf fight scene in which Worf kicks ass.
- taken some of the gas out of Picard's argument and emphasized the other points he had, that the plan was premature and without Starfleet approval.
- a bit more development in the Riker space battle that takes place, and NO joystick. Was that in INS? If it was, NO!

NEM
- changed radically from the wedding onward, at which point Riker gets promoted, and goes off with Troi on the Titan or whichever ship it is. And they would be transporting Wesley, yes I said it, a bigger role for Wesley in this film. Now the B story would be on the other ship. Cut all the crap with B4 and the moonbuggy. Now when you get to the end battle, it's 2 Starfleet ships getting ripped up, bigger stakes, and with no B4, Data's last hurrah would be huge.
- Oh, and there would need to be a Worf fight scene in which Worf kicks ass.

 

[tenmei]

Star Trek: Nemesis

The film opens with an explosion ripping across the surface of Romulus, the planet is decimated and the government eliminated.

The crew of the Enterprise (as well as Lwaxana Troi) are at the wedding of newly promoted Captain Riker and Counselor Troi whilst the Enterprise itself is transporting them to rendezvous with the Titan, Riker's new command.

News reaches the Enterprise about the decimation of Romulus and Picard learns that a militant group, lead by Commander Sela, have risen to power. Admiral Janeway wants the Enterprise to steer clear of the mess and gives orders for the Enterprise to head to a planet known as Kolarus III.

The mission to Kolarus III is routine and the crew suffer from boredom until the Valdore, a Romulan warbird, decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it is revealed that Picard's old foe, Tomalak, is in command of the Romulan ship.

Tomalak asks for parley with Picard and Picard agrees, curious about what Tomalak wants - and what Tomalak wants is Picard (and the Federation's) help to remove Sela from power given that she was found to be responsible for the explosion that decimated Romulus.

Tomalak also believes that Sela has another weapon of the same power to use on Earth - 'a world she hates' - but Janeway denies the Enterprise the right to get involved.

Picard conveys the news to Tomalak who sighs and says that he'll have to fight the good fight on his own. Picard does some soul searching including launching into discussion with Lwaxana - who urges him to get involved.

Data, meanwhile, has been experimenting with reconstructing his android daughter, Lal - the results when he shows the experiment to Beverley and Geordi don't look good, so he returns to work.

Picard orders the Enterprise towards Romulan space after warning the crew that they'll be flying in the face of official orders and he's happy to drop any objectors off on Kolarus.

It is revealed that, despite earlier belief, the alternate Tasha Yar who ended up mothering Sela, is alive on Romulus with her daughter.

Picard meets with Sela, discovers that Tasha is still alive and has to combat sabotage on the Enterprise - eventually chasing Sela's Romulan warbird, the Scimitar, down before it can launch its attack on Earth (Sela has kidnapped Data).

They're joined by the Titan to which Riker and Troi transport to in transit and the final epic battle is the Scimitars vs the combined forces of the Titan, the Enterprise and the Valdore.

Tomalak sacrifices the Valdore to save Earth and the Enterprise after the Titan and Enterprise are practically crippled.

Data sacrifices himself to save the imprisoned Tasha Yar from her daughters ship.

 

[T'Cal]

Interesting stuff.

I would've rather seen two of the novels turned into feature films. Options would've been:

*Imzadi - An origin story of Will and Deanna's early relationship as told by Adm. Riker. It's an excellent adventure with a great love story.

*Q-Squared - Q attempts to help Picard and crew stop Trellane from destroying the universe. Dark and twisted at times due to the younger Q's warped mind.

*Reunion - Picard takes onboard his old crewmates from the Stargazer to escort one of them who is to be made leader of his world when one of them begins killing off the others. It's a great mystery.

*Crossover - Unificationists are captured by the Romulans on one of their outer planets. Picard and crew, with the aid of Adm. McCoy, are sent to resolve it diplomatically before it's learned by the captors that Spock is among them. Scotty, still in the shuttlecraft that Piacrd gave him, sets off on his own rescue mission of the infamous Vulcan ambassador.

*Dark Mirror - A MU story for TNG's crew. Picard must replace his evil twin in an effort to overthrow MU Deanna Troi, who uses her empathic powers for evilness and rottenness instead of goodness and niceness (pardon my Maxwell Smart; I'm getting ready for the movie).

 

[CorporalClegg]

Star Trek: Nemesis

The film opens with an explosion ripping across the surface of Romulus, the planet is decimated and the government eliminated.

The crew of the Enterprise (as well as Lwaxana Troi) are at the wedding of newly promoted Captain Riker and Counselor Troi whilst the Enterprise itself is transporting them to rendezvous with the Titan, Riker's new command.

News reaches the Enterprise about the decimation of Romulus and Picard learns that a militant group, lead by Commander Sela, have risen to power. Admiral Janeway wants the Enterprise to steer clear of the mess and gives orders for the Enterprise to head to a planet known as Kolarus III.

The mission to Kolarus III is routine and the crew suffer from boredom until the Valdore, a Romulan warbird, decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it is revealed that Picard's old foe, Tomalak, is in command of the Romulan ship.

Tomalak asks for parley with Picard and Picard agrees, curious about what Tomalak wants - and what Tomalak wants is Picard (and the Federation's) help to remove Sela from power given that she was found to be responsible for the explosion that decimated Romulus.

Tomalak also believes that Sela has another weapon of the same power to use on Earth - 'a world she hates' - but Janeway denies the Enterprise the right to get involved.

Picard conveys the news to Tomalak who sighs and says that he'll have to fight the good fight on his own. Picard does some soul searching including launching into discussion with Lwaxana - who urges him to get involved.

Data, meanwhile, has been experimenting with reconstructing his android daughter, Lal - the results when he shows the experiment to Beverley and Geordi don't look good, so he returns to work.

Picard orders the Enterprise towards Romulan space after warning the crew that they'll be flying in the face of official orders and he's happy to drop any objectors off on Kolarus.

It is revealed that, despite earlier belief, the alternate Tasha Yar who ended up mothering Sela, is alive on Romulus with her daughter.

Picard meets with Sela, discovers that Tasha is still alive and has to combat sabotage on the Enterprise - eventually chasing Sela's Romulan warbird, the Scimitar, down before it can launch its attack on Earth (Sela has kidnapped Data).

They're joined by the Titan to which Riker and Troi transport to in transit and the final epic battle is the Scimitars vs the combined forces of the Titan, the Enterprise and the Valdore.

Tomalak sacrifices the Valdore to save Earth and the Enterprise after the Titan and Enterprise are practically crippled.

Data sacrifices himself to save the imprisoned Tasha Yar from her daughters ship.

I can't find the words.

 

[Therin of Andor]

... a rouge admiral

He wears lots of makeup.

 

[jbake]

I'd do Insurrection as a Federation Civil War, with a rouge admiral attempting to break off several planets. He would of course be a Changeling but this is all discovered during the story. In the end he is uncovered, the plot foiled and the Federation made whole again, stronger than ever and ready for the end of the Dominion War. This would explain the fleet shortages alluded to in Deep Space Nine and why they couldn't move certain assets around to support Sisko's plans. This would be an action adventure with a nice fleet battle, Federation Vs Federation ships, neither fleet wanting to really rip into the other fleet because no one wants to pit Brother Against Brother.


I'd redo Nemesis, instead of making it a ripoff of WoK I'd make the following changes:

There is a power-grab on the Romulan Homeworld, one of the client races backed by elements in the government topple the rulers. The Enterprise is called in by these new leaders to negotiate a peace, but it becomes clear that they are being manipulated. It is determined that there is a super-weapon, aimed at Earth and the Enterprise tries to stop it, as the legit Romulan Government. The usurpers then aim the weapon at the Romulan Homeworld in an attempt to cow the legit government and one or more major characters dies in an attempt to destroy the device. This would be a true "spirit of Trek" moment, bringing peace by saving the home of your worst enemy at the cost of your own life.

*shrug* This is how I would do it. These stories interest me, but I don't know if they would appeal to the man on the street OR the casual Trek-fan.

sounds better than what actually happened

indeed alot better. Stellar ideas, especially the first one Plecostomus

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm actually one of those that liked Insurrection, but I probably would have made the story a bit more straightforward. I'd probably would have replaced the Son'A with the Klingons and got rid of the idea of Ba'Ku as an interplanetary fountain of youth. The story would then have been about a pre-warp civilization sitting just outside Federation space that the Klingons want to conquer and whether or not Picard and company were just going to sit by and let that happen or risk starting another conflict with between the Federation and the Klingons. I'd definitely would have renamed the movie Star Trek: Prime Directive at that point.

I would still have had Star Trek X as the swan song for TNG, but it would have been simply an all-out conflict between a Dominion War-weakened Federation and the Romulans. The Titan would have played a big part in the movie and it would have set the stage for Star Trek XI to continue the movie franchise with Riker's ship and crew.

As the thread title says, it's just what I would have done...