What Would Jellico Do?

[Ragitsu]

Good afternoon.

Though I'm not a Jellico advocate, I did enjoy seeing Ronny Cox on The Next Generation and his character was - at the minimum - a competent Captain. As of late, I wonder how he'd handle some of the more unorthodox situations that Picard faced.

1. Q Who. Would he tolerate Q's antics as much as Picard? Would he exhibit the necessarily humility at the crucial moment?

2. The Survivors. Would he catch on to Kevin's true nature (or as quickly as Picard)? Would he ask Kevin to go along with imprisonment or would he similarly give him up without a fight?

3. Final Mission. Hell, how would Jellico handle/mentor Wesley (if at all)?

4. The Wounded. Jellico may have sympathized with Maxwell more, but would he go along with Maxwell's plan or would he also take the man in for questioning/punishment?

5. Darmok. Yikes?

6. Man of the People. I don't *think* he could play greater hardball with Alkar, but I could very well be wrong.

7. Starship Mine. This would be a treat to watch.

8. The Pegasus. Would Pressman find an ally in Jellico?

 

[Oddish]

Q Who. Would he tolerate Q's antics as much as Picard? Would he exhibit the necessarily humility at the crucial moment?

He might. He made nicey nice to Riker, despite thoroughly disliking the man.

Final Mission. Hell, how would Jellico handle/mentor Wesley (if at all)?

Wesley would have been asked to leave the bridge the moment he arrived, politely but firmly (though not unpleasantly; Jellico was a parent and probably knew how to deal with kids). He would not have returned until he was wearing a Starfleet uniform.

The Wounded. Jellico may have sympathized with Maxwell more, but would he go along with Maxwell's plan or would he also take the man in for questioning/punishment?

I think Jellico was too much of a stickler for protocol to play along... but you never know. There might have been more to him than met the eye.

Man of the People. I don't *think* he could play greater hardball with Alkar, but I could very well be wrong.

It seems to me that Jellico would have understood the brutal, utilitarian necessity of sacrificing one person to save thousands. Just as he did with Picard.

The Pegasus. Would Pressman find an ally in Jellico?

Yes, I think so. Had Jellico been captain, the Federation might have had dozens of phase-cloaking ships by the time the Dominion showed up.

 

[at Quark's]

Interesting questions, but, I'm afraid there's not that much screen material of Jellico so lots of room for speculation.

1. Q Who. Would he tolerate Q's antics as much as Picard? Would he exhibit the necessarily humility at the crucial moment?

Why not? He was more hard-boiled than Picard, but that does not mean he was a madman, set in his ways, who couldn't recognise an unwinnable situation and the only person who could get them out of there. And yes, as pointed out, he was able to put his personal antipathies aside for the good of the ship.

2. The Survivors. Would he catch on to Kevin's true nature (or as quickly as Picard)? Would he ask Kevin to go along with imprisonment or would he similarly give him up without a fight?

Again, why not? It's not as if he is slow, or dim-witted. And if anything, he seems more a realist than Picard is, less concerned with questions like 'should the man be punished' when he knows that it's not in his power anyway - so yes, he'd probably let him go without a fight.

5. Darmok. Yikes?

This one, I just can't see play out. But that doesn't mean too much. Let's not forget we see Jellico in only one (double) episode, where he is in a situation where he believes that 'wolf pack diplomacy' is the way to go, based on his previous experience with Cardassians, and only very little time to 'whip the crew into shape' (according to what he wants), but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of other approaches. We just don't get to see them in that twoparter.

 

[Ghel]

Funny enough, I did like Jellico. If anything, it was the Enterprise crew that was being kind of unreasonable with him. He came aboard a ship to potentially prep it for battle, and his requests were minor things like changing from a 3 shift rotation to 4 and asking his crew to dress in uniforms. For a professional crew, nobody even gives Jellico's policies a chance to work before losing their minds. (Riker comes across as especially petulant in this episode to me).
Regarding the above episodes, I would imagine that they would have been resolved fine, but definitely differently. For example, I can't see Jellico being as "humanity is super awesome" as Picard and taken a more business like approach to resolving conflicts with Q. As such, Q probably would have taken far less interest in the Enterprise to begin with.
Regarding The Pegasus, I actually think Picard made a bad choice here and that Jellico *may* make a better one. In the Pegasus, the Federation has an internal problem (a group of people illegally working on a phase-cloak). At the end of the episode, Picard decloaks in front of the Romulans, taking an internal issue and turning it into a major external (international?!?) incident. I would actually imagine that Jellico would report those involved in the phase-cloak scandal to Starfleet, but would not make the scandal worse by going public to the Romulans.
I could also see Jellico mentoring Wesley, but not on the bridge. There are too many crew members who went through the academy and have full Starfleet training to allow a crewmember's child to act as a member of the bridge crew no matter how much self study Wes did. In reality, Picard's decision to allow Wesley to have a place on the bridge would not only put the ship at unnecessary risk (does Wesley really know anywhere close to as much as a fully trained ensign?!?) but it also takes a seat/job away from someone who has earned it.

 

[Ragitsu]

Picard shows that honesty isn't always easy (it's certainly more awkward in the moment), but it proves to be the better solution in the long run when it comes to building/earning trust.

 

[Oddish]

He came aboard a ship to potentially prep it for battle, and his requests were minor things like changing from a 3 shift rotation to 4 and asking his crew to dress in uniforms. For a professional crew, nobody even gives Jellico's policies a chance to work before losing their minds.

As I have often said, going from three shifts to four is not a minor change. It is a significant disruption, and should have been done during a period of routine operations. Agreed about the uniforms, though.

In reality, Picard's decision to allow Wesley to have a place on the bridge would not only put the ship at unnecessary risk (does Wesley really know anywhere close to as much as a fully trained ensign?!?) but it also takes a seat/job away from someone who has earned it.

Totally agree with this. I liked Wesley, but there were ways to show him training for Starfleet without having him on the bridge.

 

[Vger23]

I think it's narrow to attempt to view and extrapolate Jellico's overall behavior and style through the lens of the events of CoC part 1 and 2.

In that short timeframe, Jellico was under very stressful, strict orders to essentially take actions that could prevent or start a war with another galactic power. It's a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure, and it's an extremely unique command scenario, especially having been handed a ship and crew he was not familiar with and did not have time to build trust with.

 

[Oddish]

I think it's narrow to attempt to view and extrapolate Jellico's overall behavior and style through the lens of the events of CoC part 1 and 2.

In that short timeframe, Jellico was under very stressful, strict orders to essentially take actions that could prevent or start a war with another galactic power. It's a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure, and it's an extremely unique command scenario, especially having been handed a ship and crew he was not familiar with and did not have time to build trust with.

That is true. However, we can understand some things through our limited exposure.
* He was something of a micromanager, a "my way or the highway" type.
* He had unrealistic expectations, expecting people to adapt quickly to major disruptions to their work schedule and shift roster.
* He understood the Cardassian mindset.
* He expected his people to look professional, and to dress the part.
* He didn't value counsel from his staff. He preferred people who took orders without question.
* He didn't BS people. He stated his honest opinion.
* He understood the greater good. For him, throwing Picard under the bus to save a whole system was an acceptable exchange. However, when the opportunity came to save Picard, he got it done.
* He wasn't prejudiced. He was perfectly happy to have an android first officer (it would have been an interesting subplot if he had offered Data [or Worf] a chance to be his first officer on the Cairo).
* He was willing to put aside personal feelings for the good of the mission.

 

[Admiral2]

As I have often said, going from three shifts to four is not a minor change. It is a significant disruption, and should have been done during a period of routine operations..

You mean like in the very next goddamned episode? Where Riker just saunters into the ready room and is like "By the way. Somebody like, suggested we go to four shifts and some junk?" and Picard's like, "Yes. Quite. Make it so. Pip pip. Earl Grey." and the rest of the crew didn't spend the next hour and half prostrate on their knees screaming "OH GOD!! HE WANTS TO GO TO FOUR SHIFTS!! INSANITY!! THE DEAD WILL RISE! 40 DAYS AND NIGHTS OF DARKNESS! DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER! MASS HYSTERIA!!!!" You're saying that's when it should have been done?

Well, my answer to that is something I have said often: Jellico was the Captain. He needed the shift change as part of accomplishing his mission, and he needed it done during that mission, not when Enterprise was assigned to study gaseous anomalies. Second guess the order all you like with "shoulda" "coulda" "woulda," as long as it was a legal order the crew was obligated to follow it, no matter how difficult it was to carry out.

Every time one of these threads is started somebody bitches about that damned shift change. Jeez. Jellico said he wanted another work shift. He didn't call for rounding up lower decks crew for slavery and human sacrifice.

The crew of Enterprise-D was supposed to be smart. They faced high pressure, dangerous situations literally every week. Shouldn't they have been able to apply all those brains to something as relatively simple as dividing a day into four pieces and reassigning personnel?

Rant over. Now back to the thread.

 

[Orphalesion]

This makes me wonder, if Jellico had, God forbid, become captain of the Enterprise on a permanent basis... would his family have joined him on the ship?

 

[Oddish]

Well, my answer to that is something I have said often: Jellico was the Captain. He needed the shift change as part of accomplishing his mission, and he needed it done during that mission, not when Enterprise was assigned to study gaseous anomalies. Second guess the order all you like with "shoulda" "coulda" "woulda," as long as it was a legal order the crew was obligated to follow it, no matter how difficult it was to carry out.

No one is disputing the lawfulness of the order, least of all me. But I know that if I'm about to get in a fight to the death with a flotilla of heavily armed Galor class warships, I don't want to get my sorry a** blasted out of space because I'm on Delta Shift with a bunch of people who were yanked off Alpha, Beta, and Gamma Shifts and thrown together and we haven't developed the seamless, instinctive rapport that my mates and I on Beta Shift spent months putting together. The kind of thing that would have formed over time, if we'd spent a week or two scanning gaseous anomalies. But now never will because when the Cardassians showed up, Ensign Gomez plowed into Lt. T'Pring, and Crewman Green was still learning how to degauss the proton matrix so he didn't do the job right and we had a cascade failure, and we all got blasted to ions by the subsequent warp core breach. And the frickin' Cardies, after toasting out incineration with glasses of kanar, went on to conquer Minos Corvo and sell all the inhabitants to Orion slave traders.

A lawful order is not always a prudent one.

 

[Ragitsu]

Jellico's abrasive attitude wouldn't work out over the course of a protracted service; the man would need to adapt to the Enterprise-D crew.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Give every officer onboard the Enterprise a Jellicle name--in song form.

 

[Oddish]

Captain Jellico
Commander Bonesqueezer
Counselor Deananydots
Doctor Beverlyshanks
Chief Engineer Visorbella
Security Chief Mister Worfopolis

 

[at Quark's]

Regarding The Pegasus, I actually think Picard made a bad choice here and that Jellico *may* make a better one. In the Pegasus, the Federation has an internal problem (a group of people illegally working on a phase-cloak). At the end of the episode, Picard decloaks in front of the Romulans, taking an internal issue and turning it into a major external (international?!?) incident. I would actually imagine that Jellico would report those involved in the phase-cloak scandal to Starfleet, but would not make the scandal worse by going public to the Romulans.

The Romulans had essentially captured the Enterprise and guarded the only way out of that asteroid. So suppose the Enterprise uses that cloak and slips out quietly. The Romulans get no response to their hails a few hours later, and wait till reinforcements arrive, and start investigating, finding out the Enterprise is gone without a trace. So at this point they know the Federation has made an incredible breakthrough. Either in a forbidden direction (cloaking and slipping through matter), or something even more dangerous (instant transportation of an entire ship without interference of matter in between), so they're not going to put this to rest as just some small unexplained mystery. Given the Romulan aptitude for infiltration it's highly likely they eventually will find out, at which point relations between Romulans and Federation will take a huge blow. So I think that what Picard did was the only possible course of action to lessen the blow as much as possible- come forward with it yourself rather than make the Romulans infer it.

 

[Ragitsu]

Given the Romulan aptitude for infiltration it's highly likely they eventually will find out, at which point relations between Romulans and Federation will take a huge blow.

That's exactly what I was going to say; if the Romulans were somehow able to insert a deep cover operative (i.e., the "Vulcan" Ambassador) in the Federation, there may very well be other moles. If you don't want to do the right thing out of principle, then do the right thing for a pragmatic reason.

 

[Oddish]

Relations between the Federation and the Romulans probably went to hell anyway, after they found out that they were tricked into fighting in the Dominion War.

 

[at Quark's]

Probably, but Picard wouldn't have known that at the moment he decided to decloak

 

[Oddish]

True. In the end, Picard had three choices.
1. Decloak and spill the beans.
2. Remain cloaked and destroy the cloaking device, ending the experiment for good.
3. Remain cloaked and keep the cloaking device. A toy like that would be super handy...

 

[Ragitsu]

Relations between the Federation and the Romulans probably went to hell anyway, after they found out that they were tricked into fighting in the Dominion War.

Was the deception ever discovered?