What would have happened to Earth and the Human race if Vulcans never made first contact with Humani

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Acenos, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or that there are more humans than ever, all living in ever-increasing poverty on a planet where rampant population growth is not being checked by sudden jumps in living standards that would result from input of alien ideas and appliances, and is not being channeled to colonization of other planets. Although calling that "effectively dead" may not be far off the mark, especially in Trek terms.

    It's a bit weird, though: if O'Brien can scan for things as insignificant as satellites, wouldn't his instruments also nicely inform him of the fact that the cities down below have populations in the billions, or in the dozens? Perhaps Earth in his "native" 24th century isn't all that different, even if it has undergone different phases as regards population development, growth and reduction of infrastructure and so forth.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is odd that O’Brien didn’t mention anything about Earth other than that he couldn’t contact Starfleet headquarters. But I got the impression that he didn’t detect signals of any kind, whether it be subspace radio, regular radio, television broadcasts, etc. And based on what we know of the regular Trek timeline, if humans and Vulcans hadn’t made first contact, then humanity would have spent the rest of its existence as radiation-mutated sickly creatures with which procreation would be highly debatable.
     
  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Whatever happens to Earth and humanity in the absence of first contact with the Vulcans largely depends on how humanity solved their issues and developed their morality post-WW3. Since at one point, guilty until proven innocent was a part of their legal code during the post-atomic horror. There’s a possibly that Earth may not have been bound by morality in absence of the Vulcans watching over them. Not a mirror universe scenario, but a more laissez faire outlook toward exploration and first contact, and how to deal with arising conflicts.

    There’s also the matter of the Kzinti (and the Earth-Kizn Wars), an interstellar trade with the Draylaxians, Deltans, Denobulans, Rigelians & Nausicaans to consider. Being militant traders instead of being focused on exploration may have been the outcome.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It does sound as if O'Brien limits his listening to various subspace frequencies exclusively. The skies might be full of radio, nut that's such an esoteric technology that Trek heroes basically never expect to hear it used (and it takes a special trick to get them to listen).

    If Earth has no subspace radio, it seems likely it has no warp. The former basically never ("Pen Pals" perhaps notwithstanding) gets invented before the latter - warp is the technology decisive in taking the interstellar virginity of a culture or sending the Feds rushing in to take it from the natives before it's too late. Conversely, we might argue that if Cochrane never flew, then nobody would be able to invent subspace radio, either, and Earth would be an interstellar virgin, only risking random conquest if aliens actually physically stumble into our system.

    Does Cochrane not flying mean Earth is in shambles? Or is it just that a single eccentric genius with a fancy idea never lived to see that idea tested, while Earth as such still prospers? The lack of observable space technology might be telling here. But it might instead be that the tech is there, and O'Brien just wants his subspace chatter and decides that all the space stuff is gone because it's silent, not because his sensors (never mentioned) would confirm it's physically absent.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Dr. San Guinary

    Dr. San Guinary Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm still flummoxed by O'Brien's line (regarding the alternate 2048) about Earth's historiy having its rough patches, but never THAT rough.

    O'Brien is a reasonably educated man, surely he knows all about World War III. What could possibly be worse than a global thermonuclear war? :wtf:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sustained global unrest, I presume. War would soon be over and done with, nicely comparable to a natural disaster; most of the folks involved could be decent enough, even if also mostly dead. Having people who aren't decent and aren't dead is its own thing again.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  7. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    Starfleet would have reached Warp 5 faster.
     
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  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously, whatever it was he beamed into.
     
  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    A Fourth Reich ruling over genocidal techno barbarians?
     
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  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I want to see that movie.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder. I mean, that's what the other kids told Nat Archer at the school yard, but his father didn't really appear to agree. Possibly Earth would not have reached even Warp 2 at all before the Kzinti came and carried our corpses to the porch of their Masters.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    They still have about 80 years to break the time barrier...:whistle:
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Given the holosuite programs O'Brien chooses, the Alamo and the battle of Britain, it's possible that O'Brien has a romantisized view of Earth's history.

    Dropping him into the middle of the Rape of Nanking would be a eye opener.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We don't really know what happens in his version of the Alamo...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    the texans win?
     
  16. Jirin Actin Kinda Sus

    Jirin Actin Kinda Sus Admiral Admiral

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    The meeting was after World War 3 when humans were already on the path to improving themselves.

    The question is, if not the Vulcans, who meets them? If it's the Androians, no biggie. Klingons or Romulans, could lead to disaster. Ferengi, they probably trade up all the planet's resources for more technology and essentially join their alliance and become a Ron Swanson paradise.
     
  17. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

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    If Earth became a Ferengi colony it would go back to a 19th century economy with no workers or female rights but with Star Trek technology, sounds like hell.
     
  18. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    *insert political joke about the Right*
     
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  19. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    * Followed immediately by a political joke about the left.
     
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  20. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

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    Eh, no that would be setting down our weapons and getting conquered Klingons.