What would an Enterprise Prequel be like?

[FederationHistorian]

Or, now hear me out on this one, there had just been a gigantic World War were whole nations and populations were being bombed out and there was a huge amount of mistrust still going on...because of the war.

I know, I know, call me crazy that such a little thing would get in the way of trust.

Or maybe I did account for it, but did not feel the need to say it. As I was debating something else.

You know, since that whole United Earth sentiment is dead for several decades, but not so dead that UESPA isn't operating in some capacity.

 

[fireproof78]

Or maybe I did account for it, but did not feel the need to say it. As I was debating something else.

You know, since that whole United Earth sentiment is dead for several decades, but not so dead that UESPA isn't operating in some capacity.

It's useful to cultivate multiple sources of drama.

 

[Orphalesion]

If you are going to imply that a state was reluctant to going a United Earth government, it does imply nationalism in involved.
Unless you want them to refuse to join because they believe in conspiracy theories about globalism.

What are you even talking about here? All I said was that Beverly's wording did not imply that Australia specifically was in any way reluctant to join up. She said it as a random, offhand example in a thought experiment.
And that in the parallel universe where the script writer randomly chose Tanzania instead (like you suggested, because apparently Tanzania is more "random" than Australia smh) you are in this threat proposing the exact same storyline for Tanzania.

Other than being opposed to a Prequel-Prequel centred on Earth politics in general (because again, that isn't what I watch Star Trek for) I have no opposition to a storyline about one or several groups or nations being stupid and trying to create a "last hurray" for nationalism (as long as it's portrayed as something negative, I don't want to watch any hero characters fighting for nationalism)
I'm opposed to choosing Australia specifically for that storyline just because of Beverly using it as a random example in a thought experiment.

It doesn't stop Vulcans from engaging in cowboy diplomacy or wanting to partake in redneck human activities. Or for humans to abandon their redneck lifestyle for a more blue blood lifestyle.

But why even characterize the Vulcans and humans like that to begin with?
The humans being stupid, bigoted space hicks and the Vulcans being stuck up, stuffy space royals who can barely stand to be in the same room as the humans was one of the most painful aspects about ENT. Why repeat that?

 

[Jedi Marso]

I see it like this, an idea I posted a while back for an anthology show showing the 'future history' of Earth leading to the founding of the Federation.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/idea-for-a-new-anthology-show.311207/#post-14175530

This follows the thread that the Trek-verse is an alternate timeline to our own extrapolated from the 1960's. I envisioned it as a limited series that could handle the following occurrences, either documentary style or as a standard narrative like a typical TV episode of Trek:

1. The evolution of the space program from Apollo through the OV shuttle series (Including the launch of the Voyager probes, and the mysterious loss of Voyager-6)
2. The colonization of the moon and Mars, and the contributions of Jackson Roykirk
3. The Eugenics Wars of the 1990's
4. The Sleeper Ships, the secrecy surrounding them, and why the program failed
5. Strangers from the Sky (The secret tale of actual Vulcan first contact) Salute, M.W.B.
6. Col. Green, World War III, and the post-atomic horror
7. Earth's recovery and political unification after the holocaust
8. First Contact with Alpha Centauri
9. Zephram Cochrane and the advent of warp drive, and the first interstellar round-trip to Alpha Centauri.
10. Official Vulcan First Contact

 

[FederationHistorian]

What are you even talking about here? All I said was that Beverly's wording did not imply that Australia specifically was in any way reluctant to join up. She said it as a random, offhand example in a thought experiment.
And that in the parallel universe where the script writer randomly chose Tanzania instead (like you suggested, because apparently Tanzania is more "random" than Australia smh) you are in this threat proposing the exact same storyline for Tanzania.

Other than being opposed to a Prequel-Prequel centred on Earth politics in general (because again, that isn't what I watch Star Trek for) I have no opposition to a storyline about one or several groups or nations being stupid and trying to create a "last hurray" for nationalism (as long as it's portrayed as something negative, I don't want to watch any hero characters fighting for nationalism)
I'm opposed to choosing Australia specifically for that storyline just because of Beverly using it as a random example in a thought experiment.

I’m not sure why you are bothered by how I interpreted that line.

Even beta canon used Beverly’s line about Australia to suggest that Australia was one of the last to join United Earth.

But why even characterize the Vulcans and humans like that to begin with?

The humans being stupid, bigoted space hicks and the Vulcans being stuck up, stuffy space royals who can barely stand to be in the same room as the humans was one of the most painful aspects about ENT. Why repeat that?

What’s wrong with variety of characters? I would have Vulcans and human that are major jerks, that’s correct. I’d also have Vulcans enamoured with Earth and want to join a band, fanatically follow the World Cup, attempt to make baseball a thing again and other Earth activities. And I’d have humans that are enamoured with Vulcan and actually want to embrace logic and willfully learn the Vulcan language and want to participate in Vulcan expeditions. I also would have Vulcans and humans that are in the middle – basically stereotypical Star Trek characters.

You are free to dislike my approach. But I just don’t care for your interpretation of not exploring the ENT Vulcans like that again. especially now that it is known the role Romulans played. So, its entirely possible the Vulcans that are jerks are actually Romulans masquerading as Vulcans.

 

[fireproof78]

What are you even talking about here? All I said was that Beverly's wording did not imply that Australia specifically was in any way reluctant to join up. She said it as a random, offhand example in a thought experiment.

Exactly. Not sure why it is taken literally.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Exactly. Not sure why it is taken literally.

And IDK why you are hung up that I follow beta canon.

 

[Orphalesion]

Even beta canon used Beverly’s line about Australia to suggest that Australia was one of the last to join United Earth.

Yeah, that sounds like the kind of superfluous thing "beta canon" would do.
I do not care about "beta canon".

What’s wrong with variety of characters? I would have Vulcans and human that are major jerks, that’s correct. I’d also have Vulcans enamoured with Earth and want to join a band, fanatically follow the World Cup, attempt to make baseball a thing again and other Earth activities. And I’d have humans that are enamoured with Vulcan and actually want to embrace logic and willfully learn the Vulcan language and want to participate in Vulcan expeditions. I also would have Vulcans and humans that are in the middle – basically stereotypical Star Trek characters.

Then have a variety of characters, just don't create the absolutely awful Enterprise situation where they all were the same type of character and all could barely stand each other.

So, its entirely possible the Vulcans that are jerks are actually Romulans masquerading as Vulcans.

*soap opera dramatic reveal sting* Eh?
Also nowhere did I say that there can't be Vulcans who are jerks.

 

[1001001]

"Beta Canon" is a thing now?

 

[fireproof78]

And IDK why you are hung up that I follow beta canon.

No...?

I'm asking why is this line taken literally? The context does not imply literal interpretation.

Edited: grammar is poor before coffee.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Then have a variety of characters, just don't create the absolutely awful Enterprise situation where they all were the same type of character and all could barely stand each other.

It's not an ENT situation. Its a show situation between FC and ENT.

It doesn’t change the fact that I what do would still be Star Trek. Its just not the pre-ENT Star Trek show you envision.

No...?

I'm asking why is this line taken literally? The context does nit imply literally interpretation.

OMG…

Changing the subject…

I would revamp the hell out of the Ent lore, to be fair. The average Warp Speed would be more Warp 2.5 and 3 than 1 and 2, at least for interstellar stuff, which is what's really limited. Solsys isn't going to have oddities like 'The first real Mars colonies are from the 2113 era', nah. You have advanced, space faring, post World War nations on a singed rock of 5-6 billions, there's going to be activity.

Ships would be of the XCV variety - pods on poles and rings, with some nacelle variants taking out the ring, and the sphere-on-a-can will be coming into fruition, but not like the Daedalus, more like the fan Icarus class. Lets have the vertical deck orientation in as well than the horizontal cruise liner decks. Lasers and fusion missiles and some slugthrowers being the rage for combat.

The Solar System would be a big point of activity, along with the localest stars: Bernards and Alpha Centauri. Lots of warping into the Mercury mines, Lunar colonies, Martian colonies, Asteroid Mines, scientific outposts floating in the Atmosphere of Venus. Going to declare Impulse to be Fusion power once and for all, and this has the added benefit of opening up the gas giants to mining and science for fuel and engine designs, and a patrol net in the outer system past Pluto and Eris that many dread being assigned to, but they find the odd alien wreck out there or old World War III remnant. Lots of esoteric and fringe Human colonies too were set up out there, so you can shove in Cultists, Human Body Warpers, Isolationists, Revanchists and goons of the week under every ice moon and hollowed out rock as need be. The Solar System itself is huge and this can provide near endless social and war tales.

Alpha Centauri is going to be huge. It's three stars in two nearby with maybe a few debris fields and planets, with contests there between a nascent United Earth (functioning more like a Supranational Union than a WorldGov, but getting there) against the Kzinti. It's months away, and humanity sees it as a dowry gift of sorts from the galaxy, but mostly just owns Proxima Centauri while the Kzin are colonizing Alpha or Beta. The Kzin are also a younger species, maybe emerging from their own post-war conflict and are taking the route humanity could had, by being more violent and expansionist.

Bernards is a red dwarf 6 LY away and possibly has a dead planet around it, but I could see it being the refuge of a machine species using it solely for energy on their virtual paradise inside computer banks and under solar farms absolutely blanketing their world, and of interest for that silicon and energy angle. They have the drones and the droids you'd expect to defend themselves from any intruders, but also aloof and elyisian enough to not pursue grand reprisal or conquest from human interlopers/explorers, but there's also plenty of people on Earth who see that and think humanity would be better off emulating that and so the probes continue and conflict rises.

The Vulcans are keeping their hands off. They didn't really help Earth since Earth is a group of sovereign nations and the Western ones got their hands on the Vulcans anyway first, and are snobby thereof. Maybe a vulcan faction saw some kindred in Econ but that probably led to a big debacle. In the background they may be keeping other species away, but only because Earth was already space faring before and during World War 3 (with space battles and battles on the other planets in the system and upmanship between NATO and ECON and so on) and then just slapped nacelles to their fusion reactor ships in a flurry of activity, which started the first Kzin War and so on - that Humanity gruelingly 'won' even if it cost dozens of ships and a few years and massacres of Kzin; this really unnerved the Vulcans, and they want to avoid more conflict just for the sake of peace alone.

Some [Vulcans] say they should warp in and just force Humanity to sit down by force if need be, but the factions of Humans they're mostly dealing with are technically more Scientific, Democratic, and Diplomatic than not, so Vulcan hopes to steer humanity to become members of the interstellar community with commerce, exchanges and programs, which again to United Earth is part of their mission anyway.

A lot of soul searching in regards to colonization, colony rights - both domestic and foreign, what the mission of United Earth is, and its values - Secularism, Humanism, Democracy, Scientific rationalism, Diplomacy - while also having emerged from beating every tinpot warlord down in a grand Post-Atomic Horror clean up up to the 2090s and engaged in interstellar wars and seemingly, with no one but the Vulcans around, that could trash them. There's the debate between 'getting a backyard', 'fixing Earth' (lots of Domestic EcoTerrorism and movements there - maybe a arc to stop a redirected , escorted asteroid from wiping out Mars from one, perhaps) and 'lets do what Bernards did'; there's possibly a big Pro-Vulcan group that wants us to cool down and defer to them and their knowledge.

I like a lot of what it written here!

 

[Henoch]

, and the contributions of Jackson Roykirk

I would move Jackson Roykirk's contribution as the creator (and NASA Project Manager) of the NOMAD probe to ~2002 (its launch date), so, his work was mostly after the 1996 Eugenics War.

KIRK: Wasn't there a probe called Nomad launched in the early 2000s?
SPOCK: Yes. It was reported destroyed. There were no more in the series.

I could see single and two-parter episodes focused on each story line. For the Nomad episode, we could follow Jackson Roykirk though the hardships of developing the Nomad probe, the joy of its launch and progress into interstellar space, then dismay of its loss in deep space. The NASA board of inquiry unjustly blames the loss on Roykirk's design of its A.I.'s faulty collision avoidance system. In epilogue, we see the damaged Nomad probe falling into a wormhole/blackhole, emerging somewhere else in the galaxy, which is detected by the alien probe Tan Ru.

In my head canon, when they lost contact with the probe due to, as surmised by Spock: damaged in a meteor collision? (which implies they redefined the definition of a "meteor" in the future ). The last thing Nomad recorded was "blackness" before it met Tan Ru, maybe it was blinded by the collision, or just maybe, it recorded falling into a blackhole? Unknown at the time, that pesty unstable wormhole caused by a small black hole near the Sol System continued to randomly suck up space probes and ships for centuries and spit them out across the galaxy into various timelines.

 

[Shawnster]

"Beta Canon" is a thing now?

For a long time now. You've never visited Memory Beta?

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

Memory Beta is an encyclopedia of non-canonical Star Trek information, including novels, comic books, RPG sourcebooks, video games and any other licensed works. Read about culture, characters, technology, starships, and more.

No canonical = beta canon. Hence the name Memory Beta (yes, a play off of Memory Alpha)

 

[1001001]

Right.

“Beta canon” is “not canon at all.”

 

[Tuskin38]

Beta canon is a fancy phrase for Non-Canon licensed works.

 

[at Quark's]

What’s wrong with variety of characters? I would have Vulcans and human that are major jerks, that’s correct. I’d also have Vulcans enamoured with Earth and want to join a band, fanatically follow the World Cup, attempt to make baseball a thing again and other Earth activities. And I’d have humans that are enamoured with Vulcan and actually want to embrace logic and willfully learn the Vulcan language and want to participate in Vulcan expeditions. I also would have Vulcans and humans that are in the middle – basically stereotypical Star Trek characters.

I would expect more Earth people to be infatuated with Vulcan than the other way around, because to us, Vulcans are the first extraterrestrial species ever encountered, but the other way around, for Vulcans Earth was just another slightly backward planet like they'd seen several before. To them we aren't unique in any way, not embracing logic as they do.

It's only later that it becomes apparent to the Vulcans that we are different (as it took Soval many years to find out).

 

[FederationHistorian]

I would expect more Earth people to be infatuated with Vulcan than the other way around

Perhaps the older Vulcan population treats Earth and all humans like they are forbidden fruit and it is discouraged among Vulcans. With there being a few rebels among the bunch.

There’s also the whole Vulcan-Romulan Cold War going on that the humans are blissfully unaware about, that is impacting relations with Earth and the constant swinging back an forth between being pro-Earth or neutrality annoys the humans.

 

[Shawnster]

Right.

“Beta canon” is “not canon at all.”

Beta canon is a fancy phrase for Non-Canon licensed works.

But, since it's licensed, is treated by some as more official than fan fiction

 

[Markonian]

But, since it's licensed, is treated by some as more official than fan fiction

By definition, licensed works are official. People are hired and get paid to produce them. Those works are official, licensed and non-canon.

Fan fiction is unpaid, unofficial, non-canon content.

 

[at Quark's]

Sometimes I wonder what the practical upshot is of something being canon, other than that it's been produced by a team approved of by the holder of the property.

I mean, if they really don't like it in later years, they're going to change it anyway (with some excuse or other, such as 'parallel timeline').