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What we learned from The Doctor's Wife (spoilers)

6. That the "unreliability" of the TARDIS is hogwash. That means the whole "6 pilots" thing was a misconception by the Doctor. It also means she doesn't actually need him.
Um, no, we don't really know that. If the ship can fly itself, why didn't it just take off? The 6 pilots thing still makes sense to me. it's like a plane with a autopilot. It can do a hell of a lot these days, but not everything. And there's an intellectual/emotional component on top of that.
 
6. That the "unreliability" of the TARDIS is hogwash. That means the whole "6 pilots" thing was a misconception by the Doctor. It also means she doesn't actually need him.
Um, no, we don't really know that. If the ship can fly itself, why didn't it just take off? The 6 pilots thing still makes sense to me. it's like a plane with a autopilot. It can do a hell of a lot these days, but not everything. And there's an intellectual/emotional component on top of that.
What makes the most sense is that the TARDIS has much more control over the ship's systems when there aren't six pilots to completely "tame" it. It's also very unlikely that the TARDIS can actually initiate travel on its own, only influence the destination once its activated. Unless, again, the proper number of pilots are controlling it.

It's not really that difficult a concept, much like the chameleon circuitry on the interior. Neil Gaiman simply took what was already present and gave it a rationalization. Which is why he's so great at what he does; he actually thinks about things, rather than just accepting them blindly.
 
This is all making my head spin... I want a novelization of this episode.. I'm sure Neil could pound something out.. :)
 
And I guess we have an explaination of the first Doctors comment way back in the very first episode, that he and Susan were 'cut off from their own people'. The Doctor really had tried to return the Tardis, but it simply refused to go.

And speaking of Susan, since there was no mention of her yet again, it makes me wonder if perhaps she joined the Doctor later. Perhaps she pulled a Jenny and stole or stowed away on a ship to go find her Grandfather.
 
"The Time Lord Enrichment Center reminds you that the TARDIS will never threaten to stab you and, in fact, cannot speak. In the event that the TARDIS does speak, the Time Lord Enrichment Center urges you to disregard its advice."
 
I found it interesting that the Doctor started deleting rooms inside the TARDIS in order to free up the power needed to enter that pocket universe (or whatever you want to call where ever it is they went). This, on one hand, could imply that it takes constant power to maintain the interior configurations of the TARDIS. By this, I mean that the various rooms and their contents are not just materialized as solid, stable, static matter, but are more like projections such as a hologram or some kind of particle synthesis. The problem with this is that we have seen several occasions where the TARDIS has lost all power, and yet the control room and everything in it remained solid and unchanged. Also, if, as some of you were discussing, the individual bits and pieces of destroyed TARDIS's also retain their camouflaged states even after the rest of the ship has been destroyed, then that would be further proof that constant power is not required to maintain the ship's interior configuration. So this brings us back to the question of how then deleting rooms inside the TARDIS serves to increase power? Besides it doesn't seem like the power that it would take run the equivalent of (an albeit extremely advanced) "holodeck" or conversely that the relatively small amount of energy that would be gained by the total conversion of the matter making up a bunch of rooms and their contents would be more than the slightest drop in the bucket compared to overall energy output the TARDIS must clearly be able to generate in order to do even some of the less absurd things that we have seen it do. Perhaps Starsuperion's theory has a good deal of merit to it; that its not the physical rooms themselves that are the source of power consumption, but rather it is the generation of the artificial space that the rooms occupy that constantly consumes huge amounts of energy. So if you think of the interior space of the TARDIS like a bubble, then the smaller you make that bubble, the less power it consumes. But even this theory has its flaw, because what would prevent the bubble from collapsing completely wiping out everything, including the control room and everyone onboard, if the power were to fail? Since, again, we have seen the power fail completely on several occasions, and (other then the lights going out) nothing catastrophic happened, we must assume one of two things...

1. There is something about the TARDIS's interior spatial construct that's designed to prevent a total collapse of the bubble in the event of a power failure (which I suppose is possible, but a bit of a stretch).

Or, perhaps more likely...

2. The bubble only requires energy when it is initially expanded and will then retain its dimensions unless it is deliberately shrunk; however, if it is shrunk, energy is then released which can be reabsorbed by the TARDIS and used for other things.
 
It could simply be that he deletes the rooms to gain extra power. You know, from the whole matter-to-energy thing. Basically, he was having the TARDIS consume parts of itself.
 
It could simply be that he deletes the rooms to gain extra power. You know, from the whole matter-to-energy thing. Basically, he was having the TARDIS consume parts of itself.

Essentially like when someone is suffering from really high blood sugar levels. The body starts burning off pretty much anything it can to maintain energy levels as the higher ones Blood sugar, the less energy you seem to have.
 
It could simply be that he deletes the rooms to gain extra power. You know, from the whole matter-to-energy thing. Basically, he was having the TARDIS consume parts of itself.

The very point that I was trying to make was that the relatively small amount of power that would be gained from simply converting the matter in those rooms to energy would be utterly insignificant compared to the total power generation capacity of the TARDIS (as evidenced by the things we have seen the TARDIS do--even excluding the more ridiculous examples like it towing the entire Earth billions of light-years though subspace in just a matter of minutes, or it's destruction taking out the whole Universe). It would be like adding the equivalent of a 12v battery to the United States power grid--you wouldn't even notice it. This is why I assume there must be far greater forces at work here that would explain why deleting rooms from the interior of the TARDIS would result in such a significant increase of power.
 
Isn't the TARDIS essentially infinite in size inside? 30% of an almost infinite amount of matter could probably produce a fair amount of energy. Or maybe the reduction in mass helps when exiting the universe?

The Doctor pretty much handwaved any explanation of how the TARDIS does it when he said it did it "With great difficulty"
 
I found it interesting that the Doctor started deleting rooms inside the TARDIS in order to free up the power needed to enter that pocket universe (or whatever you want to call where ever it is they went). This, on one hand, could imply that it takes constant power to maintain the interior configurations of the TARDIS. By this, I mean that the various rooms and their contents are not just materialized as solid, stable, static matter, but are more like projections such as a hologram or some kind of particle synthesis. The problem with this is that we have seen several occasions where the TARDIS has lost all power, and yet the control room and everything in it remained solid and unchanged. Also, if, as some of you were discussing, the individual bits and pieces of destroyed TARDIS's also retain their camouflaged states even after the rest of the ship has been destroyed, then that would be further proof that constant power is not required to maintain the ship's interior configuration. So this brings us back to the question of how then deleting rooms inside the TARDIS serves to increase power? Besides it doesn't seem like the power that it would take run the equivalent of (an albeit extremely advanced) "holodeck" or conversely that the relatively small amount of energy that would be gained by the total conversion of the matter making up a bunch of rooms and their contents would be more than the slightest drop in the bucket compared to overall energy output the TARDIS must clearly be able to generate in order to do even some of the less absurd things that we have seen it do. Perhaps Starsuperion's theory has a good deal of merit to it; that its not the physical rooms themselves that are the source of power consumption, but rather it is the generation of the artificial space that the rooms occupy that constantly consumes huge amounts of energy. So if you think of the interior space of the TARDIS like a bubble, then the smaller you make that bubble, the less power it consumes. But even this theory has its flaw, because what would prevent the bubble from collapsing completely wiping out everything, including the control room and everyone onboard, if the power were to fail?.

that is easy.. the bubble is still sustained by the copy of the eye of harmony..even if the power from the original on Gallifrey is no longer supporting the ship's copy, the copy itself is a massive complicated space time event (artificial singularity) and possesses massive gravitonic prowess able to maintain the interior dimensions much like the shriveled star core that sustains a black-hole. The difference is that space in that pocket dimension is folded back on itself, so no need for an event horizon or sucking down of the universe..and the copy of the eye is maintained in a sealed containment sphere approx 21km across..

From what I gather, the energy used by the ship from the rift powers the engines which are linked like a ship's propeller and rudder to the time vortex itself..and that same energy flows through the copy of the eye to sustain the reality, to increase it's size. when the ship's matrix, or computer mind creates new rooms, it takes shared power from the ship's engines, runs it through the copy of the eye, and forms energy into matter...that energy is siphoned from the engine output like extra gas for hauling a trailer behind a truck...

converting that matter into energy and fed into the vortex via the engines gives the ship a boost out of the tough area in which it is stuck.

Since, again, we have seen the power fail completely on several occasions, and (other then the lights going out) nothing catastrophic happened, we must assume one of two things...

1. There is something about the TARDIS's interior spatial construct that's designed to prevent a total collapse of the bubble in the event of a power failure (which I suppose is possible, but a bit of a stretch).

Or, perhaps more likely...

2. The bubble only requires energy when it is initially expanded and will then retain its dimensions unless it is deliberately shrunk; however, if it is shrunk, energy is then released which can be reabsorbed by the TARDIS and used for other things.

number 2 is definitely how I envision it works.. once the Dimension is built, and the matter within, it remains stable and constant, unless reformatted by the ship, which then again soaks up (rift) energy, and causes a strain on the systems.. maybe that is why the Tardis engines began to phase..because not enough rift energy was available to the engines via the copy of the eye of harmony, so running the power through the engines via a short hop to the moon and back would stabilise them and their molecular particles from atomizing and exploding..


It could simply be that he deletes the rooms to gain extra power. You know, from the whole matter-to-energy thing. Basically, he was having the TARDIS consume parts of itself.

The very point that I was trying to make was that the relatively small amount of power that would be gained from simply converting the matter in those rooms to energy would be utterly insignificant compared to the total power generation capacity of the TARDIS (as evidenced by the things we have seen the TARDIS do--even excluding the more ridiculous examples like it towing the entire Earth billions of light-years though subspace in just a matter of minutes, or it's destruction taking out the whole Universe). It would be like adding the equivalent of a 12v battery to the United States power grid--you wouldn't even notice it. This is why I assume there must be far greater forces at work here that would explain why deleting rooms from the interior of the TARDIS would result in such a significant increase of power.

that power is probably on an enormous scale, if you think about the type of energy used to create stable matter, and the amount of rift energy used to do so, it could be that those rooms deleted and converted into energy provide a momentary boost of energy.. not like a massive increase in speed, just a 3 second jolt or even just a mili-second jolt, which is enough to allow the Tardis engines to break it's constraints and become freed... on a normal scale it probably wouldn't amount to much output.. but then again, what if the output was just enough to disrupt what ever forces where there inhibiting the tardis in flight, while that interruption is in place, the ships engines are setting it free..

Isn't the TARDIS essentially infinite in size inside? 30% of an almost infinite amount of matter could probably produce a fair amount of energy. Or maybe the reduction in mass helps when exiting the universe?

The Doctor pretty much handwaved any explanation of how the TARDIS does it when he said it did it "With great difficulty"

What we have to understand is that once the matter is constructed, it must retain a fundamental amount of the type of energy used to create it.. I suspect much of the Tardis interior is saturated by Artron energy.. which is like pure mental thought energy.. which would explain why the ship can adjust itself and create new rooms at will, and how it can retain it's format in pieces left behind even after being consumed..

so it's not the functional aspect of the atomizer that must be present, if it looks like a bike handle, and it's particles of energy match the signature it needs to control that function, then it's the mother board of the ship's console itself that is the key, and the components are necessary but not in any particular design or material form, it works just by it's particular energy (DNA) signature if you will or particle to energy ratio..

I suspect that when a Tardis Reformats itself, it can grow, or remain the same mass.. but it can only remove that mass by deletion, which converts that material into raw energy, probably infused with Artron, which explains how the ship's power output is much greater..plus this explains why House ate the Tardises and left behind crumbs of the ships in broken pieces, as he fed off the arton energy within each component..

that also explains why Idris/Sexy had to touch the console and feed her own Artron power into the remnant Make-shift Tardis the Doctor had, cause most of the energy had been drained from the material.
 
Worrying about the specifics of TARDIS power generation seems a little like worrying about the space-time distortion that allowed Dorothy to get to Oz.
 
Worrying about the specifics of TARDIS power generation seems a little like worrying about the space-time distortion that allowed Dorothy to get to Oz.

it happens in any fandom, and more likely here on the "Trek" BBS.. afterall, trek fans love to debate and postulate on the theory surrounding warp speed travel..

why? because it is human nature to wonder why, and to rationalise things to themselves.. to some it may also be fun..

and yet to others it may ignite the imagination and stimulate higher possablities of thought.. as quoted by "Q" in the finale of TNG..

to blindly accept a notion simply cause you are more interested in being entertained is also fine for some fans, however, I do not berate those individuals as mindless shrimp..or comment on their sheepish acceptance of the magic.. and ignoring the science that could be found..
 
I think what I found most interesting was the sentience of the Type 40 Tardis given a long enough amount of time.

Considering what we know about TARDIS's in general they are thought to be more grown than built considering the complexity of it. Also they are thought to have a certain level of sentience considering that they can sometimes take action independent of the operator (resurrection and suicide). But what I found to be most truly interesting is that up until this point the only 2 fully known sentient TARDIS's in existence were Compassion the type 102, which was basically a humanoid (Laura Tobin) who traveled with the Doctor and evolved into a TARDIS, and then there were the type 103 which were probably based on the design of their predecessor.

The question and observation I truly have in this would be first to acknowledge then that essentially that the Doctor's type 40 was way way way before it's time in technological advances (I mean she did say she stole him which would mean she had to be sentient from the beginning yeah?)...which inadvertently brings me to my question...How long has his type 40....(Sexy what an eerie name for something so grandiose) been sentient? Something clearly makes his TARDIS more special than any TARDIS before or after it (which makes you think fate sent them together because clearly he is also a special sort of time lord, considering it is thought that he was the 3rd participant in the creation of the Time Lord race (Rassilon, Omega, and The Other)).

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/TARDIS
 
I haven't actually read the novels concerning Compassion and humanoid TARDISes, but presumably the sentience that they exhibited was sentience of a humanoid quality. The Doctor's Wife, and much fan speculation beforehand, would have it that theTARDIS's sentience is of a qualitatively different nature, being multi-dimensional and not constrained by the linear flow of time. So it probably was less a question of the Type 103 being more advanced and more a question of its consciousness being tailor-made to resemble that of humans; something that the designers of the Type 40 were probably wise to avoid. A TARDIS with a humanoid mind would probably suffer from the kind of madness that Nine said would happen to Time Lords if they contracted the Time Vortex the way Rose did in The Parting Of The Ways.
 
I think that a type 40 Tardis mind through the Rassilon Imprimatur has to have a link to a Time Lord to become more sentient.. the mind of the ship is autonomic, like the brain which makes our heart pump, and our lungs breath out and so on..then it also has the ability to shut down when tired, and so on.. but on the rational thinking side, let's say that through it's link to the Dcotor's mind, it can acquire a higher level of semi conciousness.. but not fully think on it's own..

in the latter tardises from the novels, those machines aquired full concious thought, wherein they obeyed their time lord creators, but they could choose their own actions without a timelord to direct them, the perfect drone killing machine..or robot weapon..alive like a human, but also a Tardis..able to see the future and past at the same time, and make their temporal warfare based on their perception of the time vortex..

this is what I think the distinct difference was..

once a Tardis was decommissioned, it was wiped clean of the psychic imprint of the Time Lord pilot, and thus unable to leave unless it could "capture" one to make it's systems whole..
 
Here is something I hadn't thought about until now. The Doctor talked about how when he first laid eyes on The TARDIS. I don't know why but I imagined the police box. Obviously that wouldn't have been the case so what exactly was he seeing?
 
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