What was wrong with Kirk?

[Skipper]

Instead of cherry-picking those events that support only your argument, why don't you show us screenshots of all the times Kirk agonized over the death of people?

I suppose that sometimes even him can feel the blues. I mean he was sad when he lost his robotic girlfriend. I'm not sure how it's pertinent. Indeed, it worsens the situation. I can understand that some deaths obviously affect him more deeply than others, but that doesn't justify the laughs at the end of that Wolf In The Fold where innocent women died.

 

[Skipper]

I'm currently re-watching TOS, and it's fun seeing the wild swings in behavior on this topic from one episode to the very next.

In "Friday's Child", Kirk lambasts McCoy (pretty unfairly) for the loss of a random redshirt at the start of the episode. McCoy: "Look Jim, I know what it means to you to lose a crewman."

In the next episode, "The Deadly Years", poor, young Lt. Galway dies horrifically of accelerated aging right in Kirk's arms. We saw how terrified she was of her condition through several lines she got earlier in the episode. Practically nothing is said, and by the end of the episode Kirk is a grand mood, joking, and making the moves on hot-lady-of-the-week Dr. Janet Wallace.

Well, the ugly truth is clear: they were in the 60s and a death of a woman really mattered if she was a girlfriend/wife/relative. And this only because it made the protagonist sad, not because of death itself. I mean, in the aforenamed Wolf In The Fold they they cared about the death of multiple women only because Scotty was the main suspect. Once he was cleared, they were immediately forgotten, and Kirk was grinning like a mad man while cracking jokes.

 

[Skipper]

34 year old Jim getting up close and personal with 19 year old Lenore rings plenty of alarm bells, even if it's legal.

"Half your age plus seven" was the golden standard at the time.

 

[Henoch]

In the next episode, "The Deadly Years", poor, young Lt. Galway dies horrifically of accelerated aging right in Kirk's arms. We saw how terrified she was of her condition through several lines she got earlier in the episode. Practically nothing is said, and by the end of the episode Kirk is a grand mood, joking, and making the moves on hot-lady-of-the-week Dr. Janet Wallace.

Kirk's affliction was affecting his mental capabilities faster than his physical ones. He simply forgot what happened a couple of days, earlier.

34 year old Jim getting up close and personal with 19 year old Lenore rings plenty of alarm bells, even if it's legal.

The whole time, Lenore was seducing Kirk to get close to him in order to kill him, so, don't put the whole thing on him; besides, it takes two to tango. Also, why would she be attracted to an older man; well, she was crazy with daddy issues...

 

[Herbert]

I suppose that sometimes even him can feel the blues. I mean he was sad when he lost his robotic girlfriend. I'm not sure how it's pertinent. Indeed, it worsens the situation. I can understand that some deaths obviously affect him more deeply than others, but that doesn't justify the laughs at the end of that Wolf In The Fold where innocent women died.

Kirk shows obvious remorse over the death of a female crewmember in By Any Other Name when Yeoman Thompson is turned into a geometric object and then crushed to powder. I guess you missed that example huh?

Besides, It's a fictional show set in a fictional future. What needs to be justified?
Never ceases to amaze me what people put forth as topics on this board. It's astounding.

 

[Noname Given]

34 year old Jim getting up close and personal with 19 year old Lenore rings plenty of alarm bells, even if it's legal.

At that point he's only 33.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, the ugly truth is clear: they were in the 60s and a death of a woman really mattered if she was a girlfriend/wife/relative. And this only because it made the protagonist sad, not because of death itself. I mean, in the aforenamed Wolf In The Fold they they cared about the death of multiple women only because Scotty was the main suspect. Once he was cleared, they were immediately forgotten, and Kirk was grinning like a mad man while cracking jokes.

Kirk was pretty broken up when Rojan crushed Yeoman Thompson to powder. I didn't expect him to carry it through the entire episode, though. Especially since the events that followed probably pushed her out of his mind.

I wonder if Lt. Shea had survivor's guilt.

Imagine if every episode ended like "The Man Trap."

Spock: "Is something wrong captain?"
Kirk: "Hmm? No, I was thinking about Ensign Lipshitz, Mr. Spock. (heavy sigh) Take us out of orbit, helmsman..."

 

[Herbert]

I'm currently re-watching TOS, and it's fun seeing the wild swings in behavior on this topic from one episode to the very next.

Right. That's why this issue, if it even is an issue, is more of a writer problem and continuity problem than it is some perceived psychological problem with Kirk.

 

[Grant]

The first season is loaded with sad endings where Kirk is rightly somber. The writing just got worse for some reason(s) and they wanted a dumb "happy" ending. First offender I recall is Galileo Seven.
It's one of the reasons I prefer the first season and a half -- space was more dangerous, scary and mysterious. Once they changed it to dozens of alien races and "cold war in space" it goes downhill for me.
WNMHGB, Man Trap, Naked Time, Charlie X, Balence of Terror, What Are Little Girls Made of, Dagger of the Mind, Conscience of the King, Alternative Factor, This Side of Paradise and "City.." of course -- all somber/thoughtful endings. Also Operation: Annihilate had a more somber ending that was cut. And Catspaw the first episode of the second season had Kirk recalling Jackson was killed in the teaser! I'm sure even the audience had forgot that. Then Boom...deaths became little plot points quickly forgotten favor of a jokey/happy ending. Bleech. Once the show became almost totally focused on the "big three" no one else mattered.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Pretty much the Gene Coon era was the basis of the happy laughers at the climax. Once we got to season 3, those conclusions were fewer. The much maligned third year brought the seriousness back, which I appreciated. Even the humorous endings were more retrained.

Naturally, Spock's Brain kicked it off with a laugh but it was a weird episode written by Coon, so....

 

[Kaelef]

Right. That's why this issue, if it even is an issue, is more of a writer problem and continuity problem than it is some perceived psychological problem with Kirk.

Oh, no question it's a writer/director/studio-desires problem. I believe @Skipper was simply coming up with a rather darkly humorous in-universe explanation for it.

 

[Grant]

Yep, the show was so much better/more interesting before Coon arrived IMO -- I know most people would strongly disagree.

Arena, Devil, Errand and Metamorphosis are all classics but Arena has an entire colony wiped out and a upbeat ending, Devil has 50 miners, 1 crewman and thousands of Horta eggs killed -- and they laugh about Spock's ears at the end.
But Circuses, Piece of the Action, Spock's Brain, Spectre, Wink of an Eye and Let That Be.... -- do zero for me. "Piece.." -- even has a Kirk joke freeze frame ending when they realize they left tech behind. Ho, ho, ho

 

[Ssosmcin]

Still, The Doomsday Machine is my favorite hour of Star Trek franchise wide. The end seconds are light but not hilariously over the top. It's probably one of the most serious of the Coon run.

 

[Grant]

Still, The Doomsday Machine is my favorite hour of Star Trek franchise wide. The end seconds are light but not hilariously over the top. It's probably one of the most serious of the Coon run.

But he didn't write it and it had Kirk and Spock acknowledge Decker's death in the last scene. So solid ending to a great episode!

 

[Ragitsu]

34 year old Jim getting up close and personal with 19 year old Lenore rings plenty of alarm bells, even if it's legal.

You'd be surprised just how many couples have a decade plus difference between them.

 

[F. King Daniel]

These justifications just make me cringe.

 

[Kaelef]

You'd be surprised just how many couples have a decade plus difference between them.

It's not uncommon. But a 34 year old dating a 19 year old is very different from a 44 year old dating a 29 year old.

 

[Ragitsu]

It's not uncommon. But a 34 year old dating a 19 year old is very different from a 44 year old dating a 29 year old.

As long as both parties are of age and willing (i.e., not subject to coercion or trickery), it doesn't bother me in the slightest. This is an odd hill to half-stand on, IMO.

 

[Skipper]

Oh, no question it's a writer/director/studio-desires problem. I believe @Skipper was simply coming up with a rather darkly humorous in-universe explanation for it.

Thank you. Because the obvious alternative would have been for me to think what I was seeing was a documentary.

Then by the way, it's okay to imagine the "real" specs of spaceships that exist only as models or CGIs, but is it crazy to look for reasons for a character's behavior?

Who explains to me why the former is perfectly acceptable and the latter is a waste of time?

 

[Kaelef]

As long as both parties are of age and willing (i.e., not subject to coercion or trickery), it doesn't bother me in the slightest. This is an odd hill to half-stand on, IMO.

Indeed!