What Was The Best Fred Phillips Make Up Job On An Alien?

[Albertese]

just that the character lacked self-respect or a sense of good grooming.

Huh? You mean that even Rhaandarites should have Starfleet short-back-and-sides haircuts? What about the native American crew with their long plaits and beads?

Actually, I interviewed Billy Van Zandt in January 1984, and the body language choices (eg. folded arms pose when Spock comes aboard) were deliberate interpretations on his part, even though knowing his character was incredibly minor. He represented Decker's loyal crew, who had had no day-to-day contact with Kirk, Spock or McCoy.

That's an interesting point about his acting choices. I didn't know that, it's nice to know the actor was taking it seriously.

I have no serious objection to the Indian's* hairstyles, as they are well arranged. But I don't know so much about the beads. It's kinda like Worf's sash. To me, it says, "hey look at me, I'm culturally significant!" While I think it's great to embrace your heritage on your off-hours, when you're in uniform, you're on duty so dress like everyone else. Just like in later seasons of TNG when Worf was allowed to wear his Klingon hair long like other Klingons, he had to keep it in a ponytail as we still need to keep things looking well-groomed in Starfleet.

--Alex

*In case anyone is offended at the use of the word "Indian" instead of "Native American" I would like to point out that even we are descended of immigrants from pre-historic times. I say "we" as I am a registered Cherokee. And I prefer the term "American Indian" to "Native American" for it's greater historical accuracy (even if it did come about by that old poser Chris Columbus getting it wrong and thinking the Bahamas was really India). Actually what I really prefer is referencing the specific tribe. After all, it's not as if all tribes form one enormous mono-cultural block. However, TV writers don't really give a damn so they make crap up like Chakotay from the "Native American" tribe of "Curiously Unidentifiable." Oh well. But I'm not gonna gripe too much if you want to do it the other way. To each their own, right? If you've ever been to an Indian medical clinic (I often visited the Chimewa medical center in Salem, OR in my 1980's childhood) you might see tribally inspired decorations on the walls, but no one's running around in beaded headdresses or with feathers tied to their clothes. This isn't the 19th Century anymore.

 

[FormerLurker]

I'm not one myself and therefore don't have a dog in the fight, but Russell Means and AIM came up with the abbreviated word "Amerind" to denote representatives of native peoples in the Americas, and I kind of like that word. It would be nice if more people knew about it and used it, I think.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't know so much about the beads. It's kinda like Worf's sash. To me, it says, "hey look at me, I'm culturally significant!" While I think it's great to embrace your heritage on your off-hours, when you're in uniform, you're on duty so dress like everyone else.

Janice Rand's beehive? Uhura's earrings? Spock's IDIC medallion? Where do you draw the line?

Actually what I really prefer is referencing the specific tribe. After all, it's not as if all tribes form one enormous mono-cultural block.

Okay, how do I, an Australian, discuss the beaded, braided crewmen in TMP when I have no way of knowing which specific tribe they come from?

Russell Means and AIM came up with the abbreviated word "Amerind" to denote representatives of native peoples in the Americas, and I kind of like that word. It would be nice if more people knew about it and used it, I think.

Except the first time I ever saw the term "Amerind" (in the early 80s) was in reference to Kirok's tribe in "The Paradise Syndrome". I used to think it was a ST fanon term.

 

[Albertese]

All the women in TOS have well-arranged hair. And they sometimes wear reasonable jewelry. Notice Uhura is a fan of big gaudy necklaces too, but she doesn't wear them with her uniform while on-duty. Spock doesn't routinely wear the IDIC, just on one special occasion while attempting to dignify a dignitary. I'll also point out that Scotty occasionally sports a kilt instead of his trousers as part of his dress uniform. Obviously, Starfleet makes some allowances for such things, but not as everyday duty clothing. OTOH we see what we see in TMP and TNG (Worf's sash.) But remember in "Ensign Ro" the titular character had a chip on her shoulder because the suits wouldn't let her wear her earring. I propose it's captain's discretion.

As to what terminology you use while referring to American Indians/Native Americans/Amerinds.... listen to your heart. I don't care that much and even if I did, who am I that you need to pay me such difference? Say whatever you're most comfortable with.

--Alex

 

[scotpens]

Janice Rand's beehive? Uhura's earrings? Spock's IDIC medallion? Where do you draw the line?

Finally, an explanation for Janice Rand’s bizarre hairstyle: It’s a cultural/ethnic thing. She’s descended from a subgroup of Basques known as the Basquetheads.

 

[Therin of Andor]

As to what terminology you use while referring to American Indians/Native Americans/Amerinds.... listen to your heart. I don't care that much and even if I did, who am I that you need to pay me such difference? Say whatever you're most comfortable with.

That might work for you personally, but I know one particular Amerind who would be extremely angry if I dared to use the wrong term to describe her. You were saying if we know the tribe, then we should use their tribal name. I was asking, if I don't recognise the tribes represented in TMP, and some people find American Indians/Native Americans/Amerinds to be insulting or limiting terms, is there any way for me to be PC?

You also said that they should leave their beads and feathers for off-duty. But do you really expect them to unbraid their hair and remove all the beads and feathers for every shift - and as they run to duty stations for red alerts?

 

[scotpens]

You also said that they should leave their beads and feathers for off-duty. But do you really expect them to unbraid their hair and remove all the beads and feathers for every shift - and as they run to duty stations for red alerts?

They could stuff the braids under a regulation-length wig, like some long-haired guys in the Army reserves used to do when they served on weekends.

 

[Albertese]

That might work for you personally, but I know one particular Amerind who would be extremely angry if I dared to use the wrong term to describe her. You were saying if we know the tribe, then we should use their tribal name. I was asking, if I don't recognise the tribes represented in TMP, and some people find American Indians/Native Americans/Amerinds to be insulting or limiting terms, is there any way for me to be PC?

That's the trouble with too much political correctness: it makes for too many eggshells to tip-toe around. Why can't we all just agree that most people aren't trying to be d-bags and give everyone the benefit of the doubt? This society of outrage we live in is a little bit laughable if you ask me. And not in a fun way.

You also said that they should leave their beads and feathers for off-duty. But do you really expect them to unbraid their hair and remove all the beads and feathers for every shift - and as they run to duty stations for red alerts?

I'm just saying that it's a little silly for them to be decorated as such in the first place. No one goes to that much trouble with that stuff unless they are really into tribal religion and ceremony and even then they only do that when there's an event happening now. It's just not a daily thing. Now as to the TMP personnel that were so decorated, I can suppose that maybe there was indeed some sort of ceremonial event going on at the moment that was cut short due to the V'Ger crisis so they didn't have time to untie everything. Naturally, it's not reasonable to expect someone to take that much time to get to station in an emergency. But I do expect that right after the crew briefing on the Rec Deck, everyone went to their stations or cabins and did untie everything and get ready for duty...

--Alex

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why can't we all just agree that most people aren't trying to be d-bags and give everyone the benefit of the doubt?

Because some people are d-bags, who try to suppress others.

And some people like to accuse people of attempting to suppress them.

 

[T'Bonz]

OK guys...

 

[Albertese]

Well this definitely went in a direction I didn't mean to take it. I apologize if I typed anything that came across as accusatory. I'm really not offended by anything in here and I hope sincerely I haven't offended anyone else.

So, guys, how about that Fred Phillips fellow?

I honestly didn't care for most of the aliens from TMP as they looked too ... I dunno.. airbrush-y? But a number of the series aliens were quite good. Someone upthread mentioned the Vians from "The Empath" and if I had to pick just one that's probably be it for me.

--Alex

 

[Therin of Andor]

OK guys...

Ooops. Sorry. I should add that I was speaking in very general terms, not ST fans or TrekBBS contributors. The whole Politically Correct movement, people who take advantage of that, etc.

 

[RAMA]

OK guys...

Ooops. Sorry. I should add that I was speaking in very general terms, not ST fans or TrekBBS contributors. The whole Politically Correct movement, people who take advantage of that, etc.

There's no "movement", there are separate "movements" but not one united front, I think people confuse this.

I always balk at ST/STNG termed as PC....I think if you try to be responsible and be accepting and put a little thought into relationships in the world, then you are going to get lumped into the term...but Gene R. was "PC" before "PC" became popular. There definitely are people/groups who take advantage of this for their own ends andthat's when it becomes dis-tasteful.

RAMA

 

[Therin of Andor]

I honestly didn't care for most of the aliens from TMP as they looked too ... I dunno.. airbrush-y?

It should be pointed out that Fred was exploiting some very new and exciting advances in theatrical makeup techniques in 1978. During TOS, all latex appliances, such as Spock's and Dr Sevrin's ears, had to be created from unique-to-the-actor plaster moulds and baked/cured in an oven overnight. Each night, after filming, the pieces were ripped off (rarely could a second use be made of them) and new ones were baked. Baking new appliances was an almost full-time job in the 60s. Then they had to be coloured with the actor's foundation makeup and shaded with the rest of the normal skin.

With TMP, they had new "slip latex", which basically cured itself. The appliances could be made quite thin at the edges, but the latex was also sturdy enough that the appliances could be used and reused. The over-the-head masks (Zaranites, Saurians, Betelgeusians, Arcturians) could be prepainted, freeing up valuable time that could be spent on other actors, although these alien heads were useless for speaking roles. Others were simpler face coverings (Rigellians, Megarites) with robes and veils covering the rest of the actors' heads. A few TMP aliens were deliberately made with the actors' mouths unencumbered (Rhaandarites, Andorians, K'Normians), in case the as-yet-unfinished script required an alien to deliver lines.

Fred Phillips once told me that, originally, there were plans for a big banquet scene, rather like seen in "Journey to Babel", where the alien ambassadors would be urged to leave Earth in case the approaching cloud was too dangerous. The aliens were de-emphasised and put in the background by Robert Wise, who didn't really care for them, but such a lot of money had been spent creating their masks and costumes, so they were loath to ignore them completely.

I always balk at ST/STNG termed as PC....I think if you try to be responsible and be accepting and put a little thought into relationships in the world

Never said Star Trek was PC. But no matter how much thought one puts into public statements, there'll always be someone saying you were being thoughtless by not considering carefully before speaking. TV shows and movies are a time capsule of the time they are created, and the world has often moved on by the time the product is released.

 

[meumar]

hmm I would say that Fred Phillips did an awesome job with Shatner's toupee - most people didn't even know it was a toupee until HD!

 

[FalTorPan]

Ruk is a favorite. I might be one of the only people who like the make-up of Tellarite ambassador Gav.

 

[KirksStuntMan]

Ruk is a favorite.

Ruk is also one of my favorite aliens. The make up, costume, Ted Cassidy's deep voice, and his immense size all combined to make him one of the most menacing creatures on ST. Just think how different the filmed outcome would have been if the producers would have cast Richard Simmons as Ruk instead of Cassidy.

 

[Captain Rob]

^^ We'd never get to see him because Dr Korby would vaporize him as soon as he could lift a phaser. He's that annoying.

 

[Maurice]

Fred Phillips once told me that, originally, there were plans for a big banquet scene, rather like seen in "Journey to Babel", where the alien ambassadors would be urged to leave Earth in case the approaching cloud was too dangerous. The aliens were de-emphasised and put in the background by Robert Wise, who didn't really care for them, but such a lot of money had been spent creating their masks and costumes, so they were loath to ignore them completely.

Interesting. In all the outlines and drafts for the In Thy Image/TMP scripts I've seen there's never been a hint of such a scene. I wonder if this is a misremembrance or perhaps a Roddenberry brainstorm that never actually made it to the page.

Janice Rand's beehive? Uhura's earrings? Spock's IDIC medallion? Where do you draw the line?

Finally, an explanation for Janice Rand’s bizarre hairstyle: It’s a cultural/ethnic thing. She’s descended from a subgroup of Basques known as the Basquetheads.

 

[Navigator_NCC2120]

What Was The Best Fred Phillips Make Up Job On An Alien?

1. Talosians.
2. Andorians.
3. Tellarites.

Are my top 3 picks.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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