What was Deep Space Nine doing during the Destiny trilogy?

[The Rock]

I was surprised that Deep Space Nine was rarely mentioned at all in the Destiny trilogy!

I have not read any of the DS9 relaunch novels, but isn't Kira the commander of DS9 in those books? So I figured she would have at least commanded the Defiant or something during the Borg invasion.

Did Starfleet use DS9 as a refugee base for people fleeing from the Borg invasion?

It was nice to have Captain Dax from DS9 in the trilogy, but since she was the captain of her own ship at that time, I don't really count her as being a DS9 character anymore.

To add to this, I wonder what would have happened if the Borg had found their way to the Bajoran wormhole. Would the prophets (Sisko in particular) have been powerful enough to stop any Borg cubes from going through the wormhole? And what would have happened if the Borg had gotten through the wormhole and ran into some Jem'Hadar?

 

[JoeZhang]

So I figured she would have at least commanded the Defiant or something during the Borg invasion.

There is a spoiler in the more recent books that answers that question.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

[...]I have not read any of the DS9 relaunch novels, but isn't Kira the commander of DS9 in those books? So I figured she would have at least commanded the Defiant or something during the Borg invasion.

Did Starfleet use DS9 as a refugee base for people fleeing from the Borg invasion?[...]

Spoiler

In 'Rough beasts of empire', we see Vaughn and Sisko commanding previously unknown ships - nothing permanent -, defending a system from a borg attack during 'Destiny'.
There's nothing exceptional about their performance - merely competent.
They use the transphasic torpedos/shields effectively - but that's about it. No truly creative tactical/technological ideea, nothing that would have the potential to turn the tide of battle came from them.
All in all, considering what was expected of them, their performance was disappointing.

As for Kira - she was most likely bottled up in a monastery during the borg invasion; as per 'Rough beasts of empire', she became a monk pre-destiny- and was quite happy with her decision.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I was surprised that Deep Space Nine was rarely mentioned at all in the Destiny trilogy!

I actually wasn't. I imagined that most of the fighting in Destiny took place away from DS9.

I wouldn't be surprised if the station served as a brief staging point/command base for a few ships heading to join the fleet in the Azure Nebula, but its location probably made it more of a rear guard facility, IMO.

 

[Christopher]

To add to this, I wonder what would have happened if the Borg had found their way to the Bajoran wormhole. Would the prophets (Sisko in particular) have been powerful enough to stop any Borg cubes from going through the wormhole? And what would have happened if the Borg had gotten through the wormhole and ran into some Jem'Hadar?

The early DS9 novel The Siege by Peter David (no relation to the later DS9 episode by that name) deals briefly with the Borg discovering the wormhole -- from the other side. Mission Gamma: Lesser Evil also deals with Borg in the Gamma Quadrant.

 

[JarodRussell]

[...]I have not read any of the DS9 relaunch novels, but isn't Kira the commander of DS9 in those books? So I figured she would have at least commanded the Defiant or something during the Borg invasion.

Did Starfleet use DS9 as a refugee base for people fleeing from the Borg invasion?[...]

Spoiler

In 'Rough beasts of empire', we see Vaughn and Sisko commanding previously unknown ships - nothing permanent -, defending a system from a borg attack during 'Destiny'.
There's nothing exceptional about their performance - merely competent.
They use the transphasic torpedos/shields effectively - but that's about it. No truly creative tactical/technological ideea, nothing that would have the potential to turn the tide of battle came from them.
All in all, considering what was expected of them, their performance was disappointing.

As for Kira - she was most likely bottled up in a monastery during the borg invasion; as per 'Rough beasts of empire', she became a monk pre-destiny- and was quite happy with her decision.

Spoiler: wtf

KIRA BECAME A MONK?!

 

[Shazam!]

lol

 

[Thestral]

Spoiler

In 'Rough beasts of empire', we see Vaughn and Sisko commanding previously unknown ships - nothing permanent -, defending a system from a borg attack during 'Destiny'.
There's nothing exceptional about their performance - merely competent.
They use the transphasic torpedos/shields effectively - but that's about it. No truly creative tactical/technological ideea, nothing that would have the potential to turn the tide of battle came from them.
All in all, considering what was expected of them, their performance was disappointing.

As for Kira - she was most likely bottled up in a monastery during the borg invasion; as per 'Rough beasts of empire', she became a monk pre-destiny- and was quite happy with her decision.

Spoiler: Rough Beasts

Err... Vaughn's command of the James T. Kirk was most definitely permanent. It was established he'd been commanding the Kirk for 2 years; the only reason it wasn't permanent in Rough Beasts was becauase the Kirk was effectively destroyed and Vaughn put in a coma. Also, while Sisko's command of the New York wasn't permanent, some of his crew moved to the Robinson with him.

And while they didn't perform exceptionally by tv-show hero standards, they (along with Cutlass) were up against 6 Borg cubes, and managed to destroy 4 of them. Sisko put his ship in the path of a Borg planet-wrecking beam to buy time for Vaughn to destroy the Cube - which worked and New York could've gotten back in the fight if Borg debris hadn't wrecked a nacelle. All in all, their performance would be laudable if they hadn't been led by "hero captains."

 

[ProtoAvatar]

[...]I have not read any of the DS9 relaunch novels, but isn't Kira the commander of DS9 in those books? So I figured she would have at least commanded the Defiant or something during the Borg invasion.

Did Starfleet use DS9 as a refugee base for people fleeing from the Borg invasion?[...]

Spoiler

In 'Rough beasts of empire', we see Vaughn and Sisko commanding previously unknown ships - nothing permanent -, defending a system from a borg attack during 'Destiny'.
There's nothing exceptional about their performance - merely competent.
They use the transphasic torpedos/shields effectively - but that's about it. No truly creative tactical/technological ideea, nothing that would have the potential to turn the tide of battle came from them.
All in all, considering what was expected of them, their performance was disappointing.

As for Kira - she was most likely bottled up in a monastery during the borg invasion; as per 'Rough beasts of empire', she became a monk pre-destiny- and was quite happy with her decision.

Spoiler: wtf

KIRA BECAME A MONK?!

Spoiler

A vedek, to be exact.

Kestrel

Spoiler

After a single written battle commanding 'his' ship, Vaughn went in a coma - we won't see him commanding that ship again. And Sisko's command of 'his' ship during the battle lasted only for that battle.
As I said - nothing permanent.


About their competency - they managed to destroy 4 cubes ONLY because they had transphasic torpedoes/shields - a weapon that could destroy a borg cube in one shot and a shield that could withstand borg weaponry exceptionally well.
Sisko/Vaughn provided no inspired tactical ideea or anything else along these lines; a trek computer program could have done what they did equally well - perhaps even better/faster.

Under the circumstances, them destroying only 4 cubes is a mediocre performance.


About Sisko putting his ship in the path of a borg high power weapon - that was, tactically/strategically, an IDIOTIC decision.

Had he not done so, his ship would have remained, most likely, operational, beyond the destruction of the cube via transphasic torpedoes.
And it was imperative for his ship to remain operational/in combat - there were two more borg cubes, and if only one of the cubes survived BILLIONS would have died - including the city he was trying to protect but also many others.
And two starfleet ships had a FAR better chance of destroying 2 borg cubes - if only by suicide kamikaze strikes - than a single ship.
As it was, only Vaughn's ship remained. Predictably, it failed to stop the borg.

And the BILLIONS of lives were saved from the borg only due to deus ex machina - not due to any actions of the DS9 characters.

 

[DS9Continuing]

The Bajor system - and thereby DS9 - were outside the range of the Borg's attacks, as were Betazed, Trill and a few other well-known worlds. Therefore DS9 itself was not involved, although as has been explained upthread, many of its crew were involved, just not on DS9.

Of course, had things progressed without the Caeliar solution, then the Borg advance would obviously have reached Bajor eventually. But as it was, the system went unscathed.

 

[Sci]

Spoiler

In 'Rough beasts of empire', we see Vaughn and Sisko commanding previously unknown ships - nothing permanent -, defending a system from a borg attack during 'Destiny'.
There's nothing exceptional about their performance - merely competent.
They use the transphasic torpedos/shields effectively - but that's about it. No truly creative tactical/technological ideea, nothing that would have the potential to turn the tide of battle came from them.
All in all, considering what was expected of them, their performance was disappointing.

As for Kira - she was most likely bottled up in a monastery during the borg invasion; as per 'Rough beasts of empire', she became a monk pre-destiny- and was quite happy with her decision.

Spoiler: wtf

KIRA BECAME A MONK?!

Spoiler

A vedek, to be exact.

Kestrel

Spoiler

After a single written battle commanding 'his' ship, Vaughn went in a coma - we won't see him commanding that ship again. And Sisko's command of 'his' ship during the battle lasted only for that battle.
As I said - nothing permanent.


About their competency - they managed to destroy 4 cubes ONLY because they had transphasic torpedoes/shields - a weapon that could destroy a borg cube in one shot and a shield that could withstand borg weaponry exceptionally well.
Sisko/Vaughn provided no inspired tactical ideea or anything else along these lines; a trek computer program could have done what they did equally well - perhaps even better/faster.

Under the circumstances, them destroying only 4 cubes is a mediocre performance.


About Sisko putting his ship in the path of a borg high power weapon - that was, tactically/strategically, an IDIOTIC decision.

Had he not done so, his ship would have remained, most likely, operational, beyond the destruction of the cube via transphasic torpedoes.
And it was imperative for his ship to remain operational/in combat - there were two more borg cubes, and if only one of the cubes survived BILLIONS would have died - including the city he was trying to protect but also many others.
And two starfleet ships had a FAR better chance of destroying 2 borg cubes - if only by suicide kamikaze strikes - than a single ship.
As it was, only Vaughn's ship remained. Predictably, it failed to stop the borg.

And the BILLIONS of lives were saved from the borg only due to deus ex machina - not due to any actions of the DS9 characters.

Spoiler: Give Me A Break

You can bitch all you want about the fact that they weren't able to destroy every Borg ship and then march triumpthantly into Unimatrix Zero, plant the Federation Flag, and proclaim, "I hereby claim this station in the name of Her Federated Majesty, President Nanietta Bacco," but the fact of the matter is that in the whole of Star Trek canon, we never saw a Federation starship destroy four Borg cubes. And for that matter, it's not really within DRGIII's creative purview to depict the Kirk and the New York as having defeated the Borg and saved Alonis; the Destiny trilogy was written two years ago and had already established that the Federation Starfleet was simply no match for the Borg and that it was saved because of the efforts of the characters in that trilogy.

Whining about how Sisko and Vaughn were "insufficiently creative" is nothing more than dragging up yet another bitch-fest about the "Destiny" trilogy, which is not appropriate in this thread.

As for DS9 being a refugee base:

TNG: Losing the Peace established that the millions upon millions of refugees fleeing the Borg Invasion have been temporarily settled in numerous refugee camps established on worlds all across the Federation. Nothing's been established about it yet, but it's entirely possible that Bajor and/or Starbase Deep Space 9 took in any number of such refugees.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Sci

Judging from your post, you are the one itching to ''drag up yet another bitch-fest about the "Destiny" trilogy".

As for your arguments - I already answered them - mostly in past Destiny-related threads, that is.
Beyond that, you said nothing to contradict what I already posted in this thread.

 

[Sci]

Sci

Judging from your post, you are the one itching to ''drag up yet another bitch-fest about the "Destiny" trilogy".

As for your arguments - I already answered them - mostly in past Destiny-related threads, that is.

Like I said, you're just repeating your complaints about the DEST trilogy and just trying to bring up that fight again.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Sci

You keep changing the subject to 'Destiny' and then you keep complaining that I want to steer the discussion towards that trilogy?

Whatever, Sci.

 

[Thestral]

Kestrel

Spoiler

After a single written battle commanding 'his' ship, Vaughn went in a coma - we won't see him commanding that ship again. And Sisko's command of 'his' ship during the battle lasted only for that battle.
As I said - nothing permanent.

Spoiler: Vaughn

Just because we didn't see Vaughn command James T. Kirk for the two years doesn't make it any less his ship. No 'his' about it; we only saw Rachel Garrett command the Enterprise-C in one episode before her death, but that didn't make Enterprise any less her ship. It's not out of the question to have Vaughn's ship appear in the in-between time of Soul Key and Rough Beasts. Fair point about Sisko and New York, though.

Spoiler

About their competency - they managed to destroy 4 cubes ONLY because they had transphasic torpedoes/shields - a weapon that could destroy a borg cube in one shot and a shield that could withstand borg weaponry exceptionally well.
Sisko/Vaughn provided no inspired tactical ideea or anything else along these lines; a trek computer program could have done what they did equally well - perhaps even better/faster.

Under the circumstances, them destroying only 4 cubes is a mediocre performance.

Spoiler: Battle of Alonis

You must be joking. Read the battle again - it took New York 4 transphasic torpedoes to destroy one cube, certainly not a one-shot weapon by that point. The Borg do adapt, you know. Under any circumstances, 6 Borg cubes against 3 Federation starships is a mismatch at best, and one of them was Sabre-class.

Spoiler

About Sisko putting his ship in the path of a borg high power weapon - that was, tactically/strategically, an IDIOTIC decision.

Had he not done so, his ship would have remained, most likely, operational, beyond the destruction of the cube via transphasic torpedoes.
And it was imperative for his ship to remain operational/in combat - there were two more borg cubes, and if only one of the cubes survived BILLIONS would have died - including the city he was trying to protect but also many others.
And two starfleet ships had a FAR better chance of destroying 2 borg cubes - if only by suicide kamikaze strikes - than a single ship.
As it was, only Vaughn's ship remained. Predictably, it failed to stop the borg.

And the BILLIONS of lives were saved from the borg only due to deus ex machina - not due to any actions of the DS9 characters.

Spoiler: Sisko's gambit

It was a desperation move to buy the James T. Kirk time to destroy the cube and preserve the city a bit longer. And in point of fact, it almost worked - what knocked New York out of the fight for good was the debris from the exploding cube knocking out their engines and leaving them dead in space, not the Borg weapons. This time, Sisko and Vaughn didn't win against overwhelming odds.

Spoiler: Give Me A Break

...depict the Kirk and the New York as having defeated the Borg and saved Alonis...

Spoiler: Rought Beasts... Never forget

Don't forget, Cutlass, the gallant little Sabre!

Otherwise,

 

[toughlittleship]

You would think the Defiant was involved somehow, given in First Contact it was ordered from the station to fight against one Borg cube.

 

[Sci]

You would think the Defiant was involved somehow, given in First Contact it was ordered from the station to fight against one Borg cube.

I'm sure the Defiant was assigned to defend Bajor.

 

[JD]

^And there were probably alot more Defiant class ships available by the time of the Destiny than there were during the time of FC.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Kestrel

Spoiler

After a single written battle commanding 'his' ship, Vaughn went in a coma - we won't see him commanding that ship again. And Sisko's command of 'his' ship during the battle lasted only for that battle.
As I said - nothing permanent.

Spoiler: Vaughn

Just because we didn't see Vaughn command James T. Kirk for the two years doesn't make it any less his ship. No 'his' about it; we only saw Rachel Garrett command the Enterprise-C in one episode before her death, but that didn't make Enterprise any less her ship. It's not out of the question to have Vaughn's ship appear in the in-between time of Soul Key and Rough Beasts. Fair point about Sisko and New York, though.

Spoiler

About their competency - they managed to destroy 4 cubes ONLY because they had transphasic torpedoes/shields - a weapon that could destroy a borg cube in one shot and a shield that could withstand borg weaponry exceptionally well.
Sisko/Vaughn provided no inspired tactical ideea or anything else along these lines; a trek computer program could have done what they did equally well - perhaps even better/faster.

Under the circumstances, them destroying only 4 cubes is a mediocre performance.

Spoiler: Battle of Alonis

You must be joking. Read the battle again - it took New York 4 transphasic torpedoes to destroy one cube, certainly not a one-shot weapon by that point. The Borg do adapt, you know. Under any circumstances, 6 Borg cubes against 3 Federation starships is a mismatch at best, and one of them was Sabre-class.

Spoiler

About Sisko putting his ship in the path of a borg high power weapon - that was, tactically/strategically, an IDIOTIC decision.

Had he not done so, his ship would have remained, most likely, operational, beyond the destruction of the cube via transphasic torpedoes.
And it was imperative for his ship to remain operational/in combat - there were two more borg cubes, and if only one of the cubes survived BILLIONS would have died - including the city he was trying to protect but also many others.
And two starfleet ships had a FAR better chance of destroying 2 borg cubes - if only by suicide kamikaze strikes - than a single ship.
As it was, only Vaughn's ship remained. Predictably, it failed to stop the borg.

And the BILLIONS of lives were saved from the borg only due to deus ex machina - not due to any actions of the DS9 characters.

Spoiler: Sisko's gambit

It was a desperation move to buy the James T. Kirk time to destroy the cube and preserve the city a bit longer. And in point of fact, it almost worked - what knocked New York out of the fight for good was the debris from the exploding cube knocking out their engines and leaving them dead in space, not the Borg weapons. This time, Sisko and Vaughn didn't win against overwhelming odds.

Spoiler

Kestrel, read the scene again - you really need to refresh your memories:

James t Kirk destoyed 2 cubes simultaneously with transphasics, in the same attack (so much for transphasics not being a one-shot kill weapons). The other vessels failed to do so due to SHEER INCOMPETENCE - they can't even coordinate themselves? Really?

Sisko's ship was disabled becasue he put it in the path of the borg weapons. The borg weapons blew up the shields and half its systems - to the point that the ship could not even maneuver out of the way of debris seconds in the coming - and it was these debris that damaged an already useless nacelle.
As said - in the situation, putting the ship in the path of main borg weapons was IDIOTIC.

It's not that "Sisko and Vaughn didn't win against overwhelming odds", it's that Sisko and Vaughn were utterly useless, their contribution to the battle as commanding officers, at most, mediocre - as said, a computer program would have done a better job than them commanding the ships.


Also, Kestrel, it's irrrelevant that Vaughn had James t Kirk for X years in-universe.
As readers, we won't see him again in that ship - improbabilities aside.
Meaning, for the readers, Vaughn being on that ship is "as I said - nothing permanent", a one scene situation.
And, Kestrel, you/me/everyone else ARE readers - the trekverse being pure fiction. The readers' perspective is the only one relevant.

 

[JD]

Kestrel

Spoiler

After a single written battle commanding 'his' ship, Vaughn went in a coma - we won't see him commanding that ship again. And Sisko's command of 'his' ship during the battle lasted only for that battle.
As I said - nothing permanent.

Spoiler: Vaughn

Just because we didn't see Vaughn command James T. Kirk for the two years doesn't make it any less his ship. No 'his' about it; we only saw Rachel Garrett command the Enterprise-C in one episode before her death, but that didn't make Enterprise any less her ship. It's not out of the question to have Vaughn's ship appear in the in-between time of Soul Key and Rough Beasts. Fair point about Sisko and New York, though.

Spoiler: Battle of Alonis

You must be joking. Read the battle again - it took New York 4 transphasic torpedoes to destroy one cube, certainly not a one-shot weapon by that point. The Borg do adapt, you know. Under any circumstances, 6 Borg cubes against 3 Federation starships is a mismatch at best, and one of them was Sabre-class.

Spoiler

About Sisko putting his ship in the path of a borg high power weapon - that was, tactically/strategically, an IDIOTIC decision.

Had he not done so, his ship would have remained, most likely, operational, beyond the destruction of the cube via transphasic torpedoes.
And it was imperative for his ship to remain operational/in combat - there were two more borg cubes, and if only one of the cubes survived BILLIONS would have died - including the city he was trying to protect but also many others.
And two starfleet ships had a FAR better chance of destroying 2 borg cubes - if only by suicide kamikaze strikes - than a single ship.
As it was, only Vaughn's ship remained. Predictably, it failed to stop the borg.

And the BILLIONS of lives were saved from the borg only due to deus ex machina - not due to any actions of the DS9 characters.

Spoiler: Sisko's gambit

It was a desperation move to buy the James T. Kirk time to destroy the cube and preserve the city a bit longer. And in point of fact, it almost worked - what knocked New York out of the fight for good was the debris from the exploding cube knocking out their engines and leaving them dead in space, not the Borg weapons. This time, Sisko and Vaughn didn't win against overwhelming odds.

Spoiler

Kestrel, read the scene again - you really need to refresh your memories:

James t Kirk destoyed 2 cubes simultaneously with transphasics, in the same attack (so much for transphasics not being a one-shot kill weapons). The other vessels failed to do so due to SHEER INCOMPETENCE - they can't even coordinate themselves? Really?

Sisko's ship was disabled becasue he put it in the path of the borg weapons. The borg weapons blew up the shields and half its systems - to the point that the ship could not even maneuver out of the way of debris seconds in the coming - and it was these debris that damaged an already useless nacelle.
As said - in the situation, putting the ship in the path of main borg weapons was IDIOTIC.

It's not that "Sisko and Vaughn didn't win against overwhelming odds", it's that Sisko and Vaughn were utterly useless, their contribution to the battle as commanding officers, at most, mediocre - as said, a computer program would have done a better job than them commanding the ships.


Also, Kestrel, it's irrrelevant that Vaughn had James t Kirk for X years in-universe.
As readers, we won't see him again in that ship - improbabilities aside.
Meaning, for the readers, Vaughn being on that ship is "as I said - nothing permanent", a one scene situation.
And, Kestrel, you/me/everyone else ARE readers - the trekverse being pure fiction. The readers' perspective is the only one relevant.

Spoiler: previous posts

Even though they're fictional, the characters still have their own perspectives to the events that are going on in a story, and IMO since theirs are only ones that impact the story, I'd say they're probably more important than the readers. As readers we need to be able to look at it from their perspectives, and it is the writers job to allow us to do this.