What tropes in science fiction annoy you?

[Greg Cox]

Well, vampires, zombies and most superheroes stories (although for the latter there are a couple of exceptions that prove the rule) are really not my thing but if they were I am pretty sure that I'd be very interested in your anthology.

Can't resist asking: Your alias is "Dracula" and you're not really into vampires?

Not a criticism. Just curious.

 

[Unicron]

Vampirism spread by laser beams?? Ooooookkkk. I've never seen Super Friends, but I think I might need to.

Heh. Super Friends is mainly remembered for its silliness, and this is sort of understandable given the target audience of young kids. They couldn't exactly have Dracula actually biting people, and the lasers seem a lot more efficient anyway. There was the one ep where an alien literally stuck Earth in his pocket and then got chased by Apache Chief, since his power was turning into a giant.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Universe of Evil" was a pretty good episode. But even it had its weird points (such as the Super Enemies having their 'Hall of Evil' right out where everybody could see it, and evil Superman looking so over-the-top demonic).

 

[Greg Cox]

Heh. Super Friends is mainly remembered for its silliness, and this is sort of understandable given the target audience of young kids. They couldn't exactly have Dracula actually biting people, and the lasers seem a lot more efficient anyway. There was the one ep where an alien literally stuck Earth in his pocket and then got chased by Apache Chief, since his power was turning into a giant.

Come to think of it, the "Space Vampire" ep of BUCK ROGERS should be coming up on Me-TV any week now.

Seriously, folks have been mixing SF with fantasy and horror since the Golden Age of SF at least: See Andre Norton, L. Sprague de Camp, Jack Williamson, Ray Bradbury, H.P. Lovecraft, Edgar Rice Burroughs, etc. And speaking of THOR, let's not forget that his very first comic-book appearance had him fighting alien invaders from Saturn.

Mixing and mashing genres is a grand old tradition--and is often more interesting than coloring entirely within the lines of any particular genre.

 

[JD]

Vampires and SF and superheroes? It makes me think a sufficiently detailed mash-up is a form of scrimshaw, elaborate decorations on by-products. It has an intrinsic novelty in its materials. Blended with the delights of miniaturism, no doubt it has its rewards for those who like that sort of thing. Unless it's high camp, of course. But in general blending magic and science works like playing Chopin melody on the right hand while rewriting it as serial music with the left hand. Or maybe making it a duet between a koto and a duduk. It's why the Avengers movies had such a hard time fitting in Thor, because magic is trumps, and the magic always swoops in to win.

The comics have been doing it with no problems for decades.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Come to think of it, the "Space Vampire" ep of BUCK ROGERS should be coming up on Me-TV any week now.

Now THAT one creeped me way the hell out when I was a kid.

 

[Greg Cox]

The comics have been doing it with no problems for decades.

Yep. Doctor Fate and Deadman coexist with Martian Manhunter and Saturn Girl, the X-Men run afoul of Dracula and Lovecraftian demons, mad scientists and evil sorcerers team up, Clark Kent dates a telepathic mermaid in college, etc. It's a big, colorful collage, which is part of the appeal.

(Says the guy who once novelized an epic battle between Wonder Woman and the Frankenstein monster.)

 

[Discofan]

Can't resist asking: Your alias is "Dracula" and you're not really into vampires?

Not a criticism. Just curious.

It is within the spirit of Halloween. (I knew I should have used "trump" instead, besides it's a great deal scarier )

 

[Greg Cox]

It is within the spirit of Halloween. (I knew I should have used "trump" instead, besides it's a great deal scarier )

Ah. Missed the seasonal connection! As you were . . .

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Come on, everyone knows Trump is a gu’ald.

One trope that bugs me is “What are the odds?” When the luck that keeps only the main characters alive gets too obvious. An entire ship blows up, and the only two survivors are the ones you can name. Or they establish some arbitrarily low chance of success then of course succeed. It’s almost a fourth wall violation when they do that, draw attention to our out of world knowledge of who is and is not allowed to die.

 

[Discofan]

Come on, everyone knows Trump is a gu’ald.

One trope that bugs me is “What are the odds?” When the luck that keeps only the main characters alive gets too obvious. An entire ship blows up, and the only two survivors are the ones you can name. Or they establish some arbitrarily low chance of success then of course succeed. It’s almost a fourth wall violation when they do that, draw attention to our out of world knowledge of who is and is not allowed to die.

Like when a phaser set to kill only wounds the main character, even when he's hit in the chest!!!

 

[stj]

Sorry, folks, have to disagree that it works well in comics. Comics have such a low standard for coherence, emotional relevance and thematic integrity, it's no wonder that magic shoehorned into SF comics doesn't cause insuperable problems. (I liked comics too, but I'm not an arbiter of good taste.) Not everyone see grotesque stylistic/tonal shifts in the same story, from magic to science and back again, as like being free verse.

 

[stj]

Genre barriers are not a real thing. Playing with conventions can indeed be fun, but it's writing about writing. Even comic books can be about real emotions and relate to the real world when the writer takes the material seriously (not solemnly! that's not the same thing at all,) rather than playfully.

That said, I repeat, I'm not against fun.

PS Sorry for the accidental double post.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm not even sure you can refer to Americans as being culturally "American." In my experience, the U.S. is really more like 5 separate countries that are just kinda tied together politically.

Isn't that true of most countries?

 

[Greg Cox]

Genre barriers are not a real thing. Playing with conventions can indeed be fun, but it's writing about writing. Even comic books can be about real emotions and relate to the real world when the writer takes the material seriously (not solemnly! that's not the same thing at all,) rather than playfully.

That said, I repeat, I'm not against fun.

PS Sorry for the accidental double post.

It depends on the work, of course. I'm not going to insist on inserting a leprechaun into a "serious" hard-sf novel, unless you're talking a holodeck or "Shore Leave" planet scenario, but when in doubt I tend to lean toward playful if you can get away with it. If genre conventions block you from doing something cool and fun and interesting, damn the conventions, full speed ahead. "Playful" is generally a positive in my book.

And, to my mind, a cross-genre story doesn't have to be writing about writing (although I confess I enjoy that kinda thing sometimes). Sticking an ancient Egyptian mummy into a space opera doesn't mean you can't get invested in the characters and their challenges and feelings. An alcoholic starship captain wrestling with the demons of his past can still have "real emotions" regardless of whether he's tracking down a space pirate or a cyborg or a were-coyote.

Or a cyborg were-coyote space pirate.

As for "grotesque" tonal shifts, I gotta admit that one of the things I most enjoyed about writing for DC years ago was that sometimes I got to write a different genre every other scene: I could do spooky horror stuff with the Spectre, Greco-Roman fantasy with the Amazons on Paradise Island, and gritty urban crime stuff in Gotham City . . . all in the same book!

It was a blast.

(That being said, I did once ask an author to delete an extreme gross-out horror scene from a novel just because it felt out of place with the rest of the book, which was more of a romantic fantasy about elves and fairies. But that wasn't a case of genre conventions so much as that one particular scene standing out like a bloody, dismembered thumb.)

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Texas was destroyed in WW3, then 23rd century Disney company bought the land and made it a theme park ala Westworld style

Only the residents don't know it yet.


Speaking of BUCK ROGERS that episode with the Vampire was one of the few good episodes, were there any? haha.

Actually another one was the two parter where Hawk was introduced. The FX for the flying ships was quite a step up from the regular episodes, especially when Hawk's ship used its talons to punch the one Buck was flying in and injured his mate.

 

[JD]

An alcoholic starship captain wrestling with the demons of his past can still have "real emotions" regardless of whether he's tracking down a space pirate or a cyborg or a were-coyote.

Or a cyborg were-coyote space pirate.

OK, now I want a story about an alcoholic starship captain wrestling with his demons while hunting a cyborg were-coyote space pirate. Seriously, that sounds awesome.

 

[Leroy]

I'm sick of WWII in space, I'd wish somebody would do something else with regards to the depiction of futuristic spaceflight, which is why I like the Expanse so much. Trek does tall ships in space which isn't much better but at least I'm less sick of it. That and one planet equals one unit, especially when it's something wasteful like a prison planet or garbage planet etc.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The Expanse also did spaceship design right. All their ships may look traditional but inside are vertical using thrust to keep you on the floor. Trek opts for fantasy ship designs with horizontal floor layouts and science magic to create gravity. Same for other shows like Babylon 5 but I think The Expanse gets it right nearly all the way.

 

[Greg Cox]

Only the residents don't know it yet.


Speaking of BUCK ROGERS that episode with the Vampire was one of the few good episodes, were there any? haha.

Actually another one was the two parter where Hawk was introduced. The FX for the flying ships was quite a step up from the regular episodes, especially when Hawk's ship used its talons to punch the one Buck was flying in and injured his mate.

I've never actually seen the second season of BUCK ROGERS since it debuted when I was starting college and I wasn't watching much TV at that point . ...