What Trek Reference Books Need To Be Compiled?

[Christopher]

This would be an encyclopedia kind of thing, there could be people out there who are proffesional journalists or university profs who can deliver the necessary quality of writing.

Yes, and since they are professionals, their time is valuable. They're busy doing other work that earns them an income. If you want them to do this other project, it's only right, even necessary, to compensate them for their time.

SW allows amateurs to make contributions to canon and it worked for them.

I don't know anything about that, but I doubt it's as simple as you're assuming.

 

[Therin of Andor]

This would be an encyclopedia kind of thing, there could be people out there who are proffesional journalists or university profs who can deliver the necessary quality of writing.

Two points. Many of the authors of ST factual publications started out as amateur writers. Geoffrey Mandel, a chief contributor to "Star Trek Maps" and author of the more recent "Star Trek Star Charts", started out as a fanzine contributor (to semi-pro fan publications like "USS Officer's Manual" and the original fan version of the "Starfleet Medical Reference Manual"). Sondra Marshak, Bjo Trimble, Dorothy Jones Heydt, Jacqueline Lichtenberg, Jeff Ayers, the Okudas, Larry Nemecek, Allan Asherman, Paula Block, Margaret Clark, just to name a few - and many of the RPG authors and illustrators - all of these people started out as fans, gained a professional reputation in fannish circles first, made successful pitches to professional publishers - and became pro authors.

It's not a lack of willing writers that is stopping Pocket/Gallery from publishing ST fact books, or stopping CBS from offering free ST facts online. And it's not that ST fans can't or won't work for free, or can't write to a professional standard. The marketplace has changed, at least for ST. Bookshops told Pocket they just weren't interested in trying to sell big, beautiful stuff like "Star Trek: Action!" and the critically-acclaimed "DS9 Companion" because they took up lots of room on bookshelves and weren't moving fast enough to warrant reordering. I recall Marco once saying how the first printing of the DS9 Companion was still available from the warehouses many years after it first came out because, despite it being a wonderful book, there just wasn't the same number of people wanting to own that work as already owned the TOS and TNG versions.

SW allows amateurs to make contributions to canon and it worked for them.

Well, under the accepted rules of "What is ST canon?", no ST "facts" become "canon" until they've appeared onscreen in a live-action production produced by CBS or Paramount. Even in the SW universe, a fact in a SW publication can be swiftly overruled by a filmed Lucasfilm Production.

What "worked for them" with SW - and still does - is that the SW fanbase has a wider demographic that includes lots of little kids needing Christmas and birthday gifts - and there are lots of young people with disposable incomes who love SW. ST seems to appeal to an older and smaller group, many of whom now have different responsibilities on how they spend their extra money. Even then, SW publishers have made their missteps. As I said earlier, the publishing "flop" of Episode One - even though thousands and thousands of books were sold - sent UK publisher Dorling Kindersley to the wall. Its remants now survive as "DK", but it's a shadow of its previous juggernaut self.

Perhaps many ST "man caves" got turned into nurseries not long after TNG went off the air, 'cos it was about then the bottom fell out of the ST fact book market. And we saw the rise of Memory Alpha and Memory Beta.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Hey, even I'm gonna get paid (eventually) for my work on the new Concordance. Might not even approach what I'm getting from CafePress, but I ain't doing this for charity.

 

[SicOne]

This would be an encyclopedia kind of thing, there could be people out there who are proffesional journalists or university profs who can deliver the necessary quality of writing.

Yes, and since they are professionals, their time is valuable. They're busy doing other work that earns them an income. If you want them to do this other project, it's only right, even necessary, to compensate them for their time.

Out of curiosity, Christopher, and beg pardon if it has been addressed before but do you also work a "day job" as it were, or solely write for a living? I do remember a previous discussion of authors "day jobs" quite some time ago, but don't recall if you were a participant in that conversation.

 

[Christopher]

I work full-time as a writer, but it's largely because I haven't had much success finding other work. I've had a pretty good string of sales so far this year -- not only Typhon Pact: The Struggle Within and Forgotten History for Trek but my original novel Only Superhuman for Tor Books -- so I'm pretty comfortable right now, but there have been times when I've come within a hair's breadth of being flat broke, and it's a pretty austere lifestyle overall, so I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Jedi_Master]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

One big difference between paid and "contributed by amateurs" writing is QUALITY. A person whose livelihood depends on making a product that meets editor's and publishers approval and is appealing to the marketplace is going to take time to get it right.
A person who is writing for blog ad rates, or just for fun is not as concerned about quality and content.
So although the people who contribute to Memory Alpha or Beta may be dedicated and determined, in almost every case the quality of a paid writer's product will be better.

So how do we increase the marketability of Star Trek's products? I personally think that there should be a greater outreach to children. ST is seen as the adult male and female Sci -fi. Why not try to make it appealing to kids?

 

[SicOne]

I work full-time as a writer, but it's largely because I haven't had much success finding other work. I've had a pretty good string of sales so far this year -- not only Typhon Pact: The Struggle Within and Forgotten History for Trek but my original novel Only Superhuman for Tor Books -- so I'm pretty comfortable right now, but there have been times when I've come within a hair's breadth of being flat broke, and it's a pretty austere lifestyle overall, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Thanks for the information. I actually kinda pictured you working in a library or a Borders-type bookstore or something like that, on the side. Or an astrophysics lab.

What is Forgotten History? I can't recall off the top of my head. And is your Typhon Pact story only an e-book, or will it see publication?

 

[Christopher]

Thanks for the information. I actually kinda pictured you working in a library or a Borders-type bookstore or something like that, on the side. Or an astrophysics lab.

I'd love to work in a library again (I did in college), but I've found it hard to break in.

What is Forgotten History? I can't recall off the top of my head. And is your Typhon Pact story only an e-book, or will it see publication?

Forgotten History is my 2012 TOS novel involving the origins of the DTI. And The Struggle Within is an eBook-exclusive novella.

 

[Steve Roby]

Thanks for the information. I actually kinda pictured you working in a library or a Borders-type bookstore or something like that, on the side. Or an astrophysics lab.

I'd love to work in a library again (I did in college), but I've found it hard to break in.

I've seen a few articles claiming that universities are graduating too many people with library science degrees for the number of jobs out there. I know a lot of the interesting library jobs that existed here in Ottawa 20 years ago are gone now. Like the job I had from 1988 to 2008. I enjoy my current job, but it sure as hell wasn't easy to get, even with more than twenty years' experience and a Master's degree in library science.

 

[Idran]

I've seen a few articles claiming that universities are graduating too many people with library science degrees for the number of jobs out there.

That's true for literally every graduate degree, so I'm very far from surprised about that. It has to have been decades in pretty much every graduate field since there were more jobs than graduates.

 

[SicOne]

Thanks for the information. I actually kinda pictured you working in a library or a Borders-type bookstore or something like that, on the side. Or an astrophysics lab.

I'd love to work in a library again (I did in college), but I've found it hard to break in.

What is Forgotten History? I can't recall off the top of my head. And is your Typhon Pact story only an e-book, or will it see publication?

Forgotten History is my 2012 TOS novel involving the origins of the DTI. And The Struggle Within is an eBook-exclusive novella.

Look forward to Forgotten History, then!

 

[Therin of Andor]

One big difference between paid and "contributed by amateurs" writing is QUALITY.

Well there's a sweeping statement.

 

[Christopher]

But not an invalid one. The difference is that professionals are competing with other professionals for a finite number of paid openings, so they have to raise their game and practice hard to be able to rise above the competition. Many amateurs may have the same level of raw talent, but not the same need or incentive to put in the time necessary to hone and develop it to an even higher level. There is just no comparing a hobby to a profession.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Some of the "amatuers" have also become "professionals" through having short stories published, training, and experience. Some Trekkies consider fan-fic as good or better than the published stuff and that may be the case sometimes but is not the norm to me. A lot of the fan-fic is juvenille or just an excuse to write Trek-erotica. As an aerospace engineer, I can appreciate a kit plane, but I wouldn't compare them to a Cessna or Piper for quality and longevity on the whole.

Both the amateurs and professionals are dedicated and good fans. I applaud them both for keeping the adventure going but for my limit reading time, I'll stick to the franchise sanctioned stuff.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Well, Your Mileage May Vary. This site alone contains some high quality fanfic...if I do say so myself....


Certainly, there's a lot of junk out there--but that happens in pro-fic, too. I refer you to Balance of Power, in which everyone acts completely out of character, to the point of Bevery and Picard arranging for a night together (and no, the context makes it clear that it's not just a drink together)--and Data saying, "That is the gist of it, sir"....

(Considering ab Hugh's remarks abouth his not being PAD in the "About The Author"...I can't help but wonder if the darned thing was just his idea of a satire on PAD's style of wit....)


But the point is--there are excellent fanfics, there are those that stink. No need to judge the whole crop by a bunch of bad apples.

I strongly recommend the BBS fanfic. More good than bad, here.

 

[Yevetha]

But not an invalid one. The difference is that professionals are competing with other professionals for a finite number of paid openings, so they have to raise their game and practice hard to be able to rise above the competition. Many amateurs may have the same level of raw talent, but not the same need or incentive to put in the time necessary to hone and develop it to an even higher level. There is just no comparing a hobby to a profession.

Actually when Kevi J. Anderson had been given the task to make the SW universe consistent with itself he contacted a fan who already made the stuff he needed.

 

[Christopher]

^Lots of professional writers consult with other people for input, reference, and advice. That doesn't mean there's no difference between a professional and an amateur. It's still the pro who takes that input and organizes it into a suitable form, who synthesizes the whole from the parts.

As a writer, I am offended by the widespread assumption that what we professionals do, what we dedicate years and years of hard work and struggle and frustration to achieve, is no different from what some casual fan can slap together over the odd weekend. Nobody assumes that some amateur could walk in off the street and perform surgery or design an airplane or play pro basketball, but everyone assumes that they can write or create just as well as the professionals can. And frankly that's an insult to the entire creative profession. WHAT WE DO IS NOT A HOBBY. IF YOU THINK IT'S NO DIFFERENT, THEN YOU'RE JUST PLAIN WRONG.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Absolutely. Nonetheless...it's not best to assume that all fanfic is slapped together over an odd weekend.

For me--with the possible exception of the monthly contests here--my stories take a LOT of time to plan out, take down, organize, and revise like heck. Synthesizing the whole from the parts, if you will. Some of them take many many, many months to write, and get from start to finish.

I'd say, as a general rule, a fanfic is bad if it is "slapped together over the odd weekend". The good fanfic takes time, patience, drive, determination--and passion for the craft, and of course, for Star Trek.

 

[SicOne]

I think you may be laboring from a false assumption here. I don't believe it's a widespread assumption that what professional authors do is merely a hobby. In fact, from what I've observed here in the Lit forum, there's a lot of love and respect for the published authors and their work.

A lot of questions, granted, but also a lot of love. In return, the love of their work is reflected in how the authors answer questions posed to them by the readers.

Likewise, I don't believe that everyone assumes that they can whip out just as great a Trek novel, or any other work, as (or better than) a "professional" author. Narcissism is more prevalent nowadays than it used to be but unless they're writing their own autobiographies, I don't think they'll just assume their own book is the greatest thing since Hugh Marston Hefner.

But also bear in mind that as a published Trek author, you have access to certain inherent advantages that "amateur" writers don't really possess, things that certainly separate the professional from the hobbyist. Off the top of my head, I can think of (1) you have an editorial process that not only fine-tunes your work but also gives you insights on where they want the franchise to go (whether good or bad, whether for the moment or long-term), which has the added benefit of not rendering your work obsolete the moment it is published; a decided advantage that fanfict writers attempting to keep their work consistent with the current timeline of novels do not have. Additionally, (2) you can also call upon your fellow authors to discuss items you're working on and how you and the other author(s) can possibly incorporate and expand upon them in your mutual works; for example, the workings of the transphasiac torpedo that you and David Mack jointly developed in your "Greater Than The Sum" and his "Destiny" trilogy, if I'm recalling posts of yore properly. That level of cooperation between authors is not a door that your average fanfict writer can stick their foot in to keep open.

However, in all fairness, if you guys spent every waking moment answering amateur writers' questions on the BBS, you'd never get anything done. I understand why things are the way that they are. I'm just saying it's not entirely the amateurs' fault, and none of the above means that they're not diligent in their own resources.

Just because someone is labeled a hobbyist or an "amateur" writer and not a "professional" does not mean that their work is merely a hobby or any less valid to them than yours is to you. Everyone, even you, had to start somewhere and get their big break into the Trek-writin' bidness. To think otherwise is elitest snobbery at its highest form. The guy slaving away at his rough draft after he's had a long day at the office dealing with an asshole boss and after the kids are put to bed may be happy to be self-labeled as an "amateur" writer...but will be less conciliatory of your attitude towards him as a mere hobbyist; the hobbyist writer may simply have many more responsibilities and demands upon his time and mental energies than the "professional" has, and simply does not have the resources or the big break that shifts him from your perception of "amateur" to "professional", pardner.

 

[Captain Robert April]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

One big difference between paid and "contributed by amateurs" writing is QUALITY. A person whose livelihood depends on making a product that meets editor's and publishers approval and is appealing to the marketplace is going to take time to get it right.
A person who is writing for blog ad rates, or just for fun is not as concerned about quality and content.
So although the people who contribute to Memory Alpha or Beta may be dedicated and determined, in almost every case the quality of a paid writer's product will be better.

A note about the fanfic writers who've turned pro: They generally spent a lot of time writing fanfic, and making a lot of the standard amateur mistakes, before the quality of their work rose to the level where they could turn pro. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, just walked in off the street and had their stuff professionally published without some editor sitting on them for at least a little while until they were ready to hatch.

So how do we increase the marketability of Star Trek's products? I personally think that there should be a greater outreach to children. ST is seen as the adult male and female Sci -fi. Why not try to make it appealing to kids?

One thing you don't do is dumb it down or try to turn it into warmed over Star Wars minus the philosophical underpinnings. In other words, if you're gonna do Star Trek, then, goddammit, DO FUCKING STAR TREK! If you can't play by the rules by which the universe was established, then go find another one more to your liking, but don't think you're gonna try and change this monster into something else without some blowback.