I'm not sure if I picked it up right but when we first saw the Timelords in part two of TEoT what was was they were referring to when the said that the Doctor still posessed the moment? Did they mean that they knew the Doctor was reliving the events of the Time War as everyone else was or was it something else?
What the Timelords said about the Doctor?
- Thread starter Crewman47
- Start date
Has that term been used before? i have been watching the show since 83 and don't remember it.
Checkmate
Commodore
What?
First, the Moment was clearly the weapon, device, handwaving or whatever else it was that the Doctor used to end the Time War. It was definitely a proper noun.
Second, it was clear that the Time Lords were having a feud with the Doctor. This was evident in both Rasillion's (forgive the misspelling) speech, the Doctor having stolen his Tardis, and pretty much any and every other story the Doctor has had involving the Time Lords that I'm aware of. He's always been a big ass rebel and thorn in their side. The phrase wasn't being used in reference to the Doctor and the Master at all. He was their "Emnity of the Ages." As made abundantly clear when he kicked their asses into a time lock to end the Time War, and how he's done whatever he can to keep it that way.
First, the Moment was clearly the weapon, device, handwaving or whatever else it was that the Doctor used to end the Time War. It was definitely a proper noun.
Second, it was clear that the Time Lords were having a feud with the Doctor. This was evident in both Rasillion's (forgive the misspelling) speech, the Doctor having stolen his Tardis, and pretty much any and every other story the Doctor has had involving the Time Lords that I'm aware of. He's always been a big ass rebel and thorn in their side. The phrase wasn't being used in reference to the Doctor and the Master at all. He was their "Emnity of the Ages." As made abundantly clear when he kicked their asses into a time lock to end the Time War, and how he's done whatever he can to keep it that way.
I assumed it jusrt meant he had the advantage?
No, but it was explained pretty well.
What I gathered from the exposition is that while the Time Lords and Daleks were inside the Time Lock, the Doctor was not. Ergo, he possessed "the moment," some sort of window where he could come and go from the Time War as he pleased.
I would like to think that something like this happened: The feud between the Daleks and Time Lords began. The Time Lords, under President Romana, recalled every Time Lord to Gallifrey. Needing all of their kind, they eventually set about resurrecting long dead Time Lords, including the Master and maybe even those inside the Matrix.
This included Time Lords who had lived and died during the Dark Time, which is what polluted the Time Lord race and caused them to use their great powers in such an evil manner. Eventually, Romana lost control of the High Council and Rassilon was resurrected, under the belief that he would be the architect of Time Lord victory. However, Rassilon,obsessed with his own immortality, set about using the Time War to his own ends. The Time Lords became even more corrupt, and Time itself turned against them.
The Doctor and Romana escaped together, and set about finding the six segments of the Key To Time. They then time locked the war, trapping both Daleks and Time Lords in it forever. The Master had by then run away as well, and perhaps a handful of others. Romana left for ESpace with a few good Time Lords to ensure the race would survive, much like the Cult of Skaro went into the Void, and the Doctor used the moment the Key To Time gave him to detonate Gallifrey's sun inside the Time Lock while the Daleks hovered above Gallifrey,all the forces gathered together, and nearly died in the process, triggering his regeneration as he catapulted the TARDIS away and through the confines of the Time Lock by using the Key to Time. Unknown to the 8th Doctor, the events of The End of Time unfolded on Gallifrey w/in the confines of the Time Lock, which was nearly broken. As Gallifrey was destroyed, some of the good Time Lords, like the Woman in White ascended, while the others, like Rassilon died. The Master, having entered from outside, was sent somewhere else, but the energy renewed his regeneration cycle. The Key to Time was also dispersed at that point, breaking the Time Lock once it was no longer needed, which is what allowed the Dalek Emperor's damaged ship and the lone Dalek to hurtle back through time & space.
What I gathered from the exposition is that while the Time Lords and Daleks were inside the Time Lock, the Doctor was not. Ergo, he possessed "the moment," some sort of window where he could come and go from the Time War as he pleased.
I would like to think that something like this happened: The feud between the Daleks and Time Lords began. The Time Lords, under President Romana, recalled every Time Lord to Gallifrey. Needing all of their kind, they eventually set about resurrecting long dead Time Lords, including the Master and maybe even those inside the Matrix.
This included Time Lords who had lived and died during the Dark Time, which is what polluted the Time Lord race and caused them to use their great powers in such an evil manner. Eventually, Romana lost control of the High Council and Rassilon was resurrected, under the belief that he would be the architect of Time Lord victory. However, Rassilon,obsessed with his own immortality, set about using the Time War to his own ends. The Time Lords became even more corrupt, and Time itself turned against them.
The Doctor and Romana escaped together, and set about finding the six segments of the Key To Time. They then time locked the war, trapping both Daleks and Time Lords in it forever. The Master had by then run away as well, and perhaps a handful of others. Romana left for ESpace with a few good Time Lords to ensure the race would survive, much like the Cult of Skaro went into the Void, and the Doctor used the moment the Key To Time gave him to detonate Gallifrey's sun inside the Time Lock while the Daleks hovered above Gallifrey,all the forces gathered together, and nearly died in the process, triggering his regeneration as he catapulted the TARDIS away and through the confines of the Time Lock by using the Key to Time. Unknown to the 8th Doctor, the events of The End of Time unfolded on Gallifrey w/in the confines of the Time Lock, which was nearly broken. As Gallifrey was destroyed, some of the good Time Lords, like the Woman in White ascended, while the others, like Rassilon died. The Master, having entered from outside, was sent somewhere else, but the energy renewed his regeneration cycle. The Key to Time was also dispersed at that point, breaking the Time Lock once it was no longer needed, which is what allowed the Dalek Emperor's damaged ship and the lone Dalek to hurtle back through time & space.
The precise quote:
There's no question what it's referring to. The Doctor may have his differences with the other Time Lords, but his relationship with the Master is much more worthy of the phrase anyway.
I don't think the Doctor or the Timelords were reliving the Timewar endlessly. Time in Doctor Who is not like time in Start Trek, i.e. a straight line of cause to effect. In Doctor who it is all happening more or less at once.
They are not reliving the moment, they are simply always living in the moment. The really was the last day of the Time War, not a loop where they all remember. They did, however, figure out what the Doctor was going to do, and that what he was going to do had already happened, and would seal the entire Time War from change. The War becomes a fixed point.
Yep - it's clearly meant to the weapon used to cause the timelock. I doubt it will ever be explained because like most RTD scripts those things aren't suppose to be thought about greatly.
Interesting theory, Peacemaker, and for the most part, I like it. However, one flaw: If The Doctor and Romana worked together to reassemble the Key to Time and she then fled to E-Space with a few other Time Lords, then wouldn't The Doctor know that there were some survivors from the Time War? If not from memory (since you could blame the regeneration amnesia on that), but his "Time Lord sensor?"
Exactly. With a few exceptios such as "Gridlock" (The Doctor paraphrasing Susan from The Sensorites in describing Gallifrey), "The Sound of Drums," and "The End of Time, Part One," I'm pretty much sick of The Doctor whining about the Time Lords, especially considering most of them were dicks.
No:
1. ESpace is a closed universe of its own.
2. Time Lords can build walls around their minds so they can't be sensed. In The Brain of Morbius, the Doctor didn't sense Morbius right away,and then only briefly.
I'd also like to think that Rassilon and the at least some others got blasted into the AntiMatter Universe with Omega and got themselves trapped there, where there's an ongoing conflict between Omega and Rassilon. Think about it, it'd serve both of those two Time Lords right. Omega is the one who detonated the star that created the black hole into which Rassilon went to retrieve the Eye of Harmony. One would think Omega has a mighty big chip on his shoulder against Rassilon.
1. How do we know that The Doctor can't sense other Time Lords beyond this universe, closed or not?
2. Why would Romana block her mind out to keep The Doctor from sensing her?
So, you're arguing that Time Lords can sense other Time Lords in other universes?
Okay.
The only evidence we have of sensing other Time Lords is Time Lords sensing Time Lords w/in the same universe. We have no evidence one way or the other about other universes, so your argument would be one from silence, cutting both ways.
As to the second question...
a. Because she doesn't want to be found.
b. Because she suspects Daleks may have survived and might use the Doctor to track her down.
Okay.
The only evidence we have of sensing other Time Lords is Time Lords sensing Time Lords w/in the same universe. We have no evidence one way or the other about other universes, so your argument would be one from silence, cutting both ways.
As to the second question...
a. Because she doesn't want to be found.
b. Because she suspects Daleks may have survived and might use the Doctor to track her down.
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