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What the Heck Happened Within the Void?!

TedShatner10

Commodore
Commodore
What the feck happened inside the Void (the space between spaces) after "Doomsday" leading up to "The Next Doctor"?

Wasn't the Void supposed to be empty according to the Doctor? How could the sucked in Cybermen and Daleks created their unseen empires within the Void, more to the point how did Cybermen manage to steal software and hardware from the Daleks despite the fact the former are completely outmatched by the latter?

The Cyberking was weird, but I get the feeling it came from the Void as well and while the Void is supposed to be a wasteland between the Universes, there must be a lot of cosmic flotsam and jestsum floating about in there (that could accumulate into planatoids the Cybermen and Daleks could build their bases upon).
 
What happend in the void, stays in the void. At least untill the next session finale.

I was also under the impression that there is no time in the void, hense the purpese of the void ship from "Doomsday", so how can anything "happen" in it?
 
yes I had this vision of it just being nothing, not a place where people can set up a swap meet, and swap technology. Maybe there is more to the void than we know.
 
I was under the expression it was torn up by Davros's reality bomb experiments, or when it was turned back on them at the conclusion of 'Journey's End', and allowed the Cybermen to drop out of it. Works for me.
 
I think it's probably best not to give much thought to the Void...it's nature does seem to have changed soemwhat since Doomsday...that said been a whilse since I saw Doomsday so perhaps I'm wrong.
 
My thoughts are that The Void and the Time War have the same function in the show. They both serve as a "barrier" at times (The Void separates realities, the Time War separates The Doctor from the Time Lords) and they both serve as a "conduit" (The Void is used by Daleks and Cybermen to get somewhere, and the Time War spits out Daleks whenever it needs to).

So as I see it, they're multi-function plot devices that have less impact as they become overused.
 
^Nicely put.

On the plus point we now know the Void is spitting out Daleks and Cybermen across time for the Doctor to encounter, which has to be a good thing.
 
I don't think so - they should defintitely be put to rest! I want the series Dalek-free in 2010!

Also, in the void they were also playing Dungeons & Dragons for a quadrillion years. Ask Gygax. :)

Mark
 
^ ha ha nice one!

Yeah making 2010 Dalek free would be good, but then we might have a Dalek free 2009 as well!
 
It all just feeds back into how wretched a writer RTD really is.

Sure, Doctor Who is first and foremost a children's ("family") show, but that's no excuse for shoddy writing. They went through all this effort to reboot the franchise by dismissing Daleks, Cybermen and the Time Lords out of the show only to have RTD -- unable to come up with anything truly original or inspiring -- dismissing it on a whim to bring those very characters back into the show. Despite how impossible they made it in the beginning.

And not just once, but time and time again. Most notably in the not-so-specials.

Not only is it shitty writing, but it undermines the monstrous sacrifices the Doctor made during the so-called Time War!

I think that's the one thing I'm most looking forward to with Moffatt at the helm. I recall reading somewhere that he's specifically more interested in creating new content rather than revisiting the same ones over and over again. Can't wait!
 
^^ I for one cannot wait to see the legions of fans turn on Steven Moffat the first time he writes an otherwise good episode with an obvious plot hole. No doubt TrekBBS and Outpost Gallifrey will be full of invective like, "It all just feeds back into how wretched a writer RTD really is!" "Moffat SUCKS!" "This is what happens when you go for a pretty boy Doctor, Moffat!" "Why can't Moffat stop writing love stories?" Etc. It'll be fun to watch fickle fans who are never happy search for a new idol.

BTW, for anyone who's interested, Moffat's work already has one huge plot hole: In the teaser of "The Girl in the Fireplace," Reinette, in the Palace of Versailles as the Clockwork Men are attacking, points to the mantle from her childhood home, whose clock is broken as evidence of who is attacking her and that the Doctor will soon arrive. But the problem is, later in the episode, we find that that mantle, with its intentionally broken duplicate clock, was moved from her home and therefore disconnected from the Clockwork Men's ship when they launched their final attack on her at the age of 38. We know that "her" clock was never broken, only the duplicate clock that would appear when the Clockwork Men used the mantle to enter her timeframe. So why would the clock in the teaser be broken if the Clockwork Men were unable to use it to get to her time period?

Obviously Steven Moffat is a hack who doesn't know what he's doing. ;)
 
Sure, Doctor Who is first and foremost a children's ("family") show, but that's no excuse for shoddy writing. They went through all this effort to reboot the franchise by dismissing Daleks, Cybermen and the Time Lords out of the show only to have RTD -- unable to come up with anything truly original or inspiring -- dismissing it on a whim to bring those very characters back into the show. Despite how impossible they made it in the beginning.
Yes, that's it exactly. In between episodes 2 and 6 of Series One, Russell Davies ran out of ideas.
 
your logic is flawed. you blame RTD for bringing back Daleks and Cybermen after 'they' removed them. yet it was FUCKING RTD WHO REMOVIED THEM YOU *words fail me*
 
BTW, for anyone who's interested, Moffat's work already has one huge plot hole: In the teaser of "The Girl in the Fireplace," Reinette, in the Palace of Versailles as the Clockwork Men are attacking, points to the mantle from her childhood home, whose clock is broken as evidence of who is attacking her and that the Doctor will soon arrive. But the problem is, later in the episode, we find that that mantle, with its intentionally broken duplicate clock, was moved from her home and therefore disconnected from the Clockwork Men's ship when they launched their final attack on her at the age of 38. We know that "her" clock was never broken, only the duplicate clock that would appear when the Clockwork Men used the mantle to enter her timeframe. So why would the clock in the teaser be broken if the Clockwork Men were unable to use it to get to her time period?

Sorry you'll have to explain that again.

Maybe try making sense this time?
 
BTW, for anyone who's interested, Moffat's work already has one huge plot hole: In the teaser of "The Girl in the Fireplace," Reinette, in the Palace of Versailles as the Clockwork Men are attacking, points to the mantle from her childhood home, whose clock is broken as evidence of who is attacking her and that the Doctor will soon arrive. But the problem is, later in the episode, we find that that mantle, with its intentionally broken duplicate clock, was moved from her home and therefore disconnected from the Clockwork Men's ship when they launched their final attack on her at the age of 38. We know that "her" clock was never broken, only the duplicate clock that would appear when the Clockwork Men used the mantle to enter her timeframe. So why would the clock in the teaser be broken if the Clockwork Men were unable to use it to get to her time period?

Sorry you'll have to explain that again.

Maybe try making sense this time?

I made sense the last time, but I'll explain it again.

Okay. You'll recall that when the Doctor used the fireplace mantle to travel to Reinette's childhood that there were two sides to the mantle. You'll recall that each side had a clock. You'll also recall that when the Doctor used the mantle to travel to her childhood that one of those clocks was intentionally broken by the Clockwork Men (CMs, because I'm lazy) so that no one would hear two sets of clocks ticking at once when they used it.

So, that means that one side of the mantle, with a functional clock, was normally in the 18th Century, and one side was normally in the 51st Century. The one that was normally in the 51st Century had a broken clock so that when it was rotated into the 18th Century by the CMs, there wouldn't be two sets of tickings.

When the Clockwork Men begin their final attack on Reinette when she is 38 years old (as seen in the teaser -- that's the part that airs before the opening credits), Reinette is staring at the mantle, which she had moved from her childhood home to the Palace, and notes that the clock is now broken where it had not been before. From this, she deduces that the people attacking the Palace (whom she has not yet seen) are the CMs and that the Doctor will soon be on his way. The audience is therefore led to deduce that the CMs used the rotating mantle to travel from the 51st to 18th Century, and that this is why the broken-clock-side is now in the 18th Century instead of the 51st.

The problem is that after the attacks, Reinette showed the mantle to the Doctor. The Doctor said that the connection to the 51st Century wasn't shattered as with the other time portals because moving the mantle had caused it to go off-line. The Doctor is able to use his sonic screwdriver to bring it back online, and thereby travel back to the 51st Century.

Here is the problem: If the mantle was off-line, how could the 51st Century side, with its broken clock, have been rotated into the 18th Century, as seen in the teaser?
 
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The two ticking noises the CMs were trying to avoid weren't from there being two clocks-- they were from a clockwork man and the clock.
 
The two ticking noises the CMs were trying to avoid weren't from there being two clocks-- they were from a clockwork man and the clock.

Pardon me, I thought I made it clear in saying "two sets of clocks" that I was referring to the clockwork inside the CMs.
 
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