What should be done in Africa

[All Seeing Eye]

I think what we need to do in Africa is to use the charity money obtained more wisely. I think the money used isn't focused enough on what needs doing. I don't think going village to village building the odd water well here and there is the best method of doing things.

I think we should send teams of experts, engineers and builders to different African countries and start building large towns from scratch.
This is my idea:

1. Build one of these to begin with, not necessarily THAT big.
2. Around this solar power station begin construction of many of these.
3. Once you have power and water begin construction of these.
   
   Nice affordable cheap to construct but well designed houses and build some schools and other amenities.
4. Arrange the houses in a circular grid like fashion outwards from the solar powerstation. On the outskirts of town build more of these.
5. Beyond these start planting these. and use water from the water wells in point 4 to keep them watered.
6. Start moving people into these new towns from their crappy villages from far and wide.

I think if charities band together to start building these towns up from scratch people might pay more interest in helping African people. If charities were to advertise asking for money to help build these towns there'd be a lot more people interested in donating, at least people will know that their money is going directly into building them.

I personally would rather donate a lump sum of £100 now and again to go towards this then pay £2 a month and not know what it's going on.

I would hope that eventually as these towns grow in prosperity and expand that they will be capable of building other towns themselves on their own wealth. Eventually there will be hundreds of these prosperous towns and by use of well placed roads will be able to trade with eachother and if they can plant more and more fields of crops they could export their produce to other nations.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Maybe we should ask the African people want they want before we make such plans. Some of them might actually want to stay in their 'crappy villages' rather than move to a town. After all they might be busy cultivating their fields that surround their 'crappy villages'.

 

[Mallory]

I gave up on Africa 30 years ago. I'll get interested again (maybe) once they've finally sorted out all their various problems and are living relatively peacefully.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Maybe we should ask the African people want they want before we make such plans. Some of them might actually want to stay in their 'crappy villages' rather than move to a town. After all they might be busy cultivating their fields that surround their 'crappy villages'.

OK so You have a choice of living in this village here.... or moving to a brand spanking newly built town powered by a large central solar power station giving electricity for lighting and other housing amenities, surrounded by beautiful well built sturdy houses with copious amounts of fields of crops to feed everybody + more and all of it watered by dozens of wells.

Where would you rather live? these new towns will be so amazing those villages they used to live in WILL be crappy.
Do you think the African people will turn down an offer like that and stay where they are? they are starving to death and suffering and you think they'll turn down these new towns to stay where they are?
would these people turn down the offer?

 

[Rii]

It would probably help to think of Africa as something other than a monolithic block.

 

[Canadave]

Generally speaking, small villages aren't the problem in Africa. It's possible for people to live in them more-or-less traditionally (growing their own food and such) and their standard of living can be brought up by building wells, bringing in doctors, etc.

The problem in Africa is the cities. Places like Nairobi, Cape Town, Addis Ababa, Kinshasa-Brazzaville and more all have sprawling slums and shantytowns. Conditions for the urban poor in Africa are much, much worse than the rural poor. Something needs to be done to fix the cities before anything else.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Famine in Africa is usually a result of armed conflict not as a result of type of housing.

Many Africans can quite happily live a village of mud huts so long as they can tend their crops in peace.

I have nothing against improving water supplies, or even providing better hosuing if the people want it, but moving people off their own tribal lands, against their will. can only lead to problems.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

It would probably help to think of Africa as something other than a monolithic block.

You're just arguing semantics. pretty much all of Africa is suffering from food, home and water shortages. These new towns that should be built are the foundation stones for better African countries.
Rome was nothing more than a collection of villages to begin with and turned into a great empire. If we build these towns now for Africans and give them a prosperous start these towns could grow into something much more fantastic.

I have nothing against improving water supplies, or even providing better hosuing if the people want it, but moving people off their own tribal lands, against their will. can only lead to problems.

Ok, number:

1. Who on Earth said anything about forcing people to move there against their will? it will be their own choice if they wanna move there and:
2. Who says these new towns need to be far away from where they are living now? hmmm? nobody said that is required.

We're not talking about forcing Palestinians out of Israel here or vice versa, I think you're getting wires crossed. I'm pretty gob smacked right now how anybody could be arguing against building these towns.

 

[Miss Chicken]

1. Who on Earth said anything about forcing people to move there against their will? it will be their own choice if they wanna move there and:
2. Who says these new towns need to be far away from where they are now? hmmm? nobody said that is required.

Which is why I said you would have to ask the Africans concerned first what they wanted. If they want such towns well and good but it is up to themsleves.

and you said

Start moving people into these new towns from their crappy villages from far and wide.

Which certainly sounds like you wanted people to be uprooted from their traditional lands.

I'm pretty gob smacked right now how anybody could be arguing against building these towns

Such towns would be useless in the areas where people are now starving. Those people are starving because of armed conflict which would continue even if better houses were being built. In fact Westerners building new houses might make the conflicts worse.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Start moving people into these new towns from their crappy villages from far and wide.

Which certainly sounds like you wanted people to be uprooted from their traditional lands.

In Africa far and wide means within a radius of perhaps a few miles. I'm not talking one end of a country to another.
Obviously different tribes might not wanna share a town, that's to be expected. If tribes have their own land then if they want a town building they can have one built on their tribal lands.
It's not like i'm saying we should build an Israeli settlement on Palestinian land here.

Such towns would be useless in the areas where people are now starving. Those people are starving because of armed conflict which would continue even if better houses were being built. In fact Westerners building new houses might make the conflicts worse.

I think you've been reading or watching too much about what's going on in Sudan and the Democratic Republic of the Congo and going overboard thinking it's the same throughout the entirety of Africa. yes there are hot spots but it's not an epidemic.
A hell of a lot of starvation and famine is caused because the people don't have the tools or the ability to build wells and houses and plant crops. All they need is help and building these towns would be the greatest help we could give.

 

[Miss Chicken]

And if you move a peasant a few miles into one of these towns does that mean he will have to walk a few miles each day to tend his crops. How can he protect his crops at night if he is a few miles away?

Just build him a new house on his land next to his mudbrick house (if he wants one). He might be content to just have a hand-cranked radio rather than electricity. What use is electricity to him if he has no electrical appliances to run and cannot afford to buy any?

 

[Kaych]

It would probably help to think of Africa as something other than a monolithic block.

You're just arguing semantics. pretty much all of Africa is suffering from food, home and water shortages.

May I point you in the direction of this video, which is quite eye opening: http://www.gapminder.org/videos/ted...d-2006-debunking-myths-about-the-third-world/

The thing about helping Africa, is that we should not do it for them. That would just destroy their dignity. The key solution, in my opinion, is that we should give them the means to do so, through initiatives like microcredit. We have to help them help themselves.

Think of it like giving a million dollars to a homeless person and telling them to have a better a life. Chances are, they'll splurge it on luxeries, and eventually become poor again.

There is actually a theory based around the poverty cycle. Google it, it might just change your views.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

double post.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

And if you move a peasant a few miles into one of these towns does that mean he will have to walk a few miles each day to tend his crops.

What on Earth are you talking about now. These new towns will be surrounded by fields of crops and everybody who lives in these towns will have to work together to tend to them. Go back to my original post and see point number (5).

Just build him a new house on his land next to his mudbrick house (if he wants one). He might be content to just have a hand-cranked radio rather than electricity. What use is electricity to him if he has no electrical appliances to run and cannot afford to buy any?

What's hard to understand that we're going to be building TOWNS, not just houses here or there where people want them. Happy with a radio? these new homes will have lighting and electricity for hot water. They will have money because eventually they'll be able to sell excess crops. These towns aren't the end of it, these towns will expand and grow and build their own industry and trade with other towns for goods and supplies etc.
You're not thinking outside of the box.

Think of it like giving a million dollars to a homeless person and telling them to have a better a life. Chances are, they'll splurge it on luxeries, and eventually become poor again.

We're not giving them money, we're building them towns and they can help in their construction, once done they've got fields and crops to attend to and schools to work in. Building these towns isn't the end of it, it's just the beginning and they've got to work hard to maintain them and expand further..

 

[Scout101]

I didn't notice, but did the plans for the town include massive automated turrets or gun towers? I'd imagine that they'd be prime targets for the thugs with guns running around. Actually, they'd appreciate it if we built them, as once they took one over, and kicked everyone out, and THEN installed the gun towers, they'd probably make pretty nice bases, with plenty of free water and power, around a nice defensible perimeter

If we haven't figured out by now that we should let Africa figure things out on its own rather than trying to force OUR solution on them, we're screwed. I mean, the Brits, French, Portuguese, and company were the ones whose fucked-up ideas to "help" africa caused most of this shit in the first place...

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I didn't notice, but did the plans for the town include massive automated turrets or gun towers? I'd imagine that they'd be prime targets for the thugs with guns running around. Actually, they'd appreciate it if we built them, as once they took one over, and kicked everyone out, and THEN installed the gun towers, they'd probably make pretty nice bases, with plenty of free water and power, around a nice defensible perimeter

We don't need sarcasm.

Just like Miss Chicken I think you've been reading or watching too much about what's going on in Sudan and the Democratic Republic of the Congo and going overboard thinking it's the same throughout the entirety of Africa. yes there are hot spots but it's not an epidemic.

 

[Miss Chicken]

What on Earth are you talking about now. These new towns will be surrounded by fields of crops and everybody who lives in these towns will have to work together to tend to them.

So you are talking about some form on communism? Do you really think people will give up their current land for land that they will have to share with others.

What's hard to understand that we're going to be building TOWNS, not just houses here or there where people want them. Happy with a radio? these new homes will have lighting and electricity for hot water. They will have money because eventually they'll be able to sell excess crops. These towns aren't the end of it, these towns will expand and grow and build their own industry and trade with other towns for goods and supplies etc.
You're not thinking outside of the box.

I think you are naive. You are assuming that everyone will get along in your little utopia, and that everyone will be able to sell any excess they have. Who is going to buy it all?

What is the use of lightning and electricity if you cannot afford light bulbs, TVs or fridges. Are these people going to beome instantly richer to be able to afford things?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

What is the use of lightning and electricity if you cannot afford light bulbs, TVs or fridges. Are these people going to beome instantly richer to be able to afford things?

Goodness me. When electricity was discovered and became wide spread could everyone in England afford lightbulbs or even aquire them? do you think everything just immediately becomes available or do you think people have to work hard for it? the towns will be equipped initially with what they need, the houses will have what they need, after that it's up to the towns people to make a go of it. Who always needs money anyway, trade is always a good thing, trade something for a lightbulb.

So you are talking about some form on communism?

Socialism dear, socialism.

 

[TGTheodore]

Talking about what needs to be done in "Africa" is like talking about "Asia" or "North America".

To use it as an all-encompassing term will lead to useless discussion. Single out the countries and specific problems. Each country is as different in Africa as it is on any other continent.

--Ted

 

[Mr. B]

I would agree that everything in the OP is academic until Africans stop shooting at each other... that's the problem.