What ship type fulfilled the role of the Runabouts and Defiant in the "Lost Era"?

[Timo]

Let me amend my previous statement about the Sydney class. The Jenolan was definitely as large as the TMP Enterprise, but reuses of the model for DS9 (where they flipped the ship over) was probably meant to represent a smaller transport vessel, not the same class as the Sydney.

The hull of the design being a reuse of a shuttlecraft that in turn was designed as a nod to the TOS one certainly lends credibility to the idea of this (that is, both the big transport and the putative smaller vessel) being landing-capable and fairly versatile.

Even the upside-down shots show an almost Defiant-sized ship, though. There's still enough leeway to claim that the familiar nacelles are, say, half-size versions - something I'd love to believe in, for the purposes of fan ship inclusion (FASA has fleet upon fleet of such half-size ships with copy-paste engines, some of them way cool), even when there's no in-universe pressure to do so.

At half-size, this still wouldn't be a runabout in the DS9 sense: I'd envision her requiring a crew of half a dozen and perhaps having a shuttle of her own aboard. But transports ITRW (or at least ITRCivilianW) come in all sizes even when in basically just one shape, so the upside-down half-Sydney would be perfect to round out the selection. And perhaps to serve as a base auxiliary, although I'd like to see her as a logistics vessel first and foremost, not doing all that much battling or wormhole-diving.

P.S. I had already forgotten they actually painted a name on the stern of the model for the upside-down shots. But this shot does seem to show a short name beginning with U.S.S., presumably Nash, in the orientation appropriate for the shot. And also appropriate for the well-documented bow pennant which faces the bridge (now "ventral sensor") like ventral pennants should, not the bow. Memory Alpha doesn't acknowledge this and seems to think the pennants are wrong for the shown orientation somehow.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

Yowza, I always figured the Jenolen was only about as big as the shuttle she was based on from Star Trek VI. Wow there's a big difference!

 

[Timo]

The makers of "Relics" were of two or three minds about it, too, apparently.

Small craft?

- The ship has a really small crew that we hear of
- Every relevant facility, from flight controls to transporters to the thing Scotty needs to repair, is crammed into the same set

Ship of respectable size?

- Said set still has starship features, such as a command chair and a viewscreen
- The set is as expansive as they could make it, with asymmetry and all
- The bigger the exterior, the better they can make this ship work as a doorstop for the hero ship, both visually and logically
- The exterior has rows of windows to indicate decks; sometimes glowing dots may be things other than windows, but here they scale with the engines and the bridge and the apparent approach control room at upper stern

Ultimately, the end result is large, and the Okudagrams on the bridge/transporter room/engineering/whatever show a starship's warp core among other things. And for the better IMHO.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Redshirt214]

You know, I was just watching "The Raven" the other night. I had quite forgotten about that ship, but as the kind of small transport supporting a station she makes an attractive option.

The discussion of possibly assigning a Miranda type is intriguing (they are one of my favorite ships, so admittedly I am biased). I wonder how small a skeleton crew one could assign... it seems to me that older ships in the TNG era have greatly profited from computer upgrades, and automation in near M5 levels of efficiency when in comes to crew requirements. The USS Lantree, for example, only has a 26 man skeleton crew, so perhaps such ships could be assigned to the stations as auxiliaries. The Lantree, though, lacks the weapons of other ships of her class which may explain the smaller crew, and as a supply ship I imagine she'd be more like the monthly visitor to a station than a permanent resident.

Oberth class ships, whilst not defensively useful, would I imagine be commonly assigned to science outposts like Regula One, as they'd compliment the station's research function nicely.

I do quite like the SD-103 type shuttles, but wonder wether they are warp capable? The shows have always been all over the place on the warp abilities of shuttles, but I feel like low warp should be possible by the Lost Era at least. I can't help but wonder what modifications the SD-103 type could have seen if it'd been picked as the runabout.

 

[NCC-73515]

I do quite like the SD-103 type shuttles, but wonder wether they are warp capable? The shows have always been all over the place on the warp abilities of shuttles, but I feel like low warp should be possible by the Lost Era at least. I can't help but wonder what modifications the SD-103 type could have seen if it'd been picked as the runabout.

They have two small Galaxy warp nacelles (oriented backwards) and a D'Deridex nacelle XD

 

[Redshirt214]

Where is the D'deridex nacelle hiding? The Galaxy class (or maybe SD-103 class!) are pretty noticeable, but that one must be hidden.

I do think that "cutter" is a good naval term for the pseudo-runabout, starbases\outpost auxiliary. I think it could describe a plethora of ships that are not quite full starships, but not shuttles equally.

 

[Dukhat]

Where is the D'deridex nacelle hiding? The Galaxy class (or maybe SD-103 class!) are pretty noticeable, but that one must be hidden.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/m...ision/latest?cb=20140401152323&path-prefix=en

 

[Imaus]

The Sydney class?

 

[Redshirt214]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/0/07/SD-103_model,_ventral_side.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140401152323&path-prefix=en

Your link seems to be broken... is this what you were looking for?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Film_studio_models?file=SD-103_model,_ventral_side.jpg#SD-103

If so, I think I see what you were talking about now on the model. The Romulan part is very cunningly disguised by being painted light grey and being used between the much larger Galaxy kit parts on the model. It looks like, in addition to the engine piece, some of the Warbirds secondary hull (specifically the bit where Probert but the shuttle\cargo bays) was cut up to form a portion of the dark grey forward ventral hull area. But I could be mistaken.

Makes me wonder: could what look like bussard collectors there actually be bussard collectors? Do bustards, strictly speaking, have to face forward?

 

[NCC-73515]

Where is the D'deridex nacelle hiding? The Galaxy class (or maybe SD-103 class!) are pretty noticeable, but that one must be hidden.

http://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/nar5.jpg

 

[DEWLine]

http://blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/nar5.jpg

That ship had a name to go with that registry number, I expect...

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Makes me wonder: could what look like bussard collectors there actually be bussard collectors? Do bustards, strictly speaking, have to face forward?

As I understand it they operate as Bussard Ramscoops that collect interstellar hydrogen in flight - I'd imagine they need to be pointed in the direction of travel to function properly in the same way a snowplow needs to be pointed in the direction of travel to function properly.

 

[Timo]

Perhaps the SD-103 type warps backwards, then? Might be practical. And would be fun to watch.

Although we never quite learn what the "Bussards" or the "ramscoops" really do, and whether the two are the same thing. Devices of that description are only ever seen blowing out gases for tactical purposes (and once shown sucking them in to facilitate the blowing out). Perhaps they collect stuff, which might be done with devices pointing whichever way - astern shouldn't be much different of ahead or to the sides. Perhaps they just suck stuff away from the flight path, though, in which case facing forward might be advantageous.

The domes aren't present on all ships and craft, but they are present in applications where collecting of extra fuel would make no sense - the Phoenix test rig, say. The TNG era intent was for the collector thing to be the series of yellow louvres behind the red domes, FWIW; perhaps there is no set color or shape for a ramscoop, and the red domes are a different thing altogether, so far unnamed?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

The Sydney class?

No, the Sydneys were large passenger liners. Look at the windows, the LN-64 nacelles and the TMP Enterprise-style bridge. They probably had more internal space than the refit Enterprise, given the boxy shape.

 

[Timo]

One has to wonder about the mission specs. If the Jenol*n had passengers up to apparent capacity, it's odd that the hundreds if not thousands of corpses rotting in the corridors are never discussed in "Relics". But the ship wasn't on a regular route, what with having this unique bump into the Dyson Sphere and all, so "liner" is out as a mission profile anyway.

Doesn't mean the ship couldn't serve as a liner. But that fateful day, she was probably running a rare shipment of cargo to Norpin with just the Starfleet operating crew aboard, and with Scotty occupying a jump seat as a favor. And there would only be a dozen corpses to worry about.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

But that fateful day, she was probably running a rare shipment of cargo to Norpin with just the Starfleet operating crew aboard, and with Scotty occupying a jump seat as a favor. And there would only be a dozen corpses to worry about.

FWIW, the Relics novelisation suggests that the Jenolen had a crew of 36 and a small number of passengers.

 

[publiusr]

Freighter-liners are a thing.
Lots of the “free” cruise vouchers are anything but—just a way to get you to spend money. If you want a cheap cruise, booking passage on a freighter is hard to beat.

 

[Timo]

True enough - although technically, both "freighter" and "liner" would be incorrect. The former implies the taking of money from the transport of goods, but the Jenol*n was a military vessel and thus a "transport" instead (although quite probably a hybrid type with passenger amenities, holds and possibly also bulk tanks). And the latter implies a line, whereas the Jenol*en was not on one when discovering the massive road bump.

We're sort of still waiting to see our very first civilian liner. But we know such things exist, that is, Vash can buy tickets from A to B. And quite possibly Starfleet runs liners, too, and perhaps Sydneys serve as such, and even the Jenol*en did on occasion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ProwlAlpha]

The Aurora from TOS-R which looks like a smaller version of Mudd's J-Class and the Erewhon Class from DS9 Paradise look like good contenders for similar Danube Class runabouts.

 

[BK613]

Could be that Scotty was using some 23rd century version of Space Available Travel (what we called MACflights in my day.)
"Space-available flights, a.k.a “MAC flights” or “military hops,” are military operational flights that have extra seats. The military mission is the priority, and the Space-A passengers are essentially cargo."