Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TEH BABA, Oct 25, 2008.
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
And yes he is a general.
Once an Emperor, always an Emperor .... that's an excellent parody site! Well, at least it SEEMS like a parody.
It is a parody... isn't it?
There is no "simple logic" in politics though.
- true that!
The media 'doing a number' on a politician? I'm shocked, shocked... Why, if that happened in reality nobody would ever go into politics... ;-)
Over the the Sheridan/Lochley marriage, it's the secrecy over that's credibility breaking - if you have a functioning press, that information would be out in public view the moment that journalists started putting profiles of the new president together, and it would then become a controversy when she was appointed (the only real way out that I can think of is that by the time of Babylon 5, a marriage is viewed as legally 'spent' and void after a divorce, and so wouldn't be in public records).
Similarly, if there had to be any sort of confirmation hearing for Sheridan's cabinet, then Garibaldi's erratic behaviour over the previous year would have come up. So we have to assume that there wasn't one - which isn't that impossible as, let's face it, the Alliance constitution is being made up on the fly by Sheridan and his allies at that point. But as with a lot of season five, it does all come together to make the Alliance less of a presidential democracy, and more a benevolent dictatorship under Sheridan and his cronies, which is a pity given the effort that the early seasons had put into makign the show's politics realistic.
He wasn't a politician at the time the media pulled those stunts. They were in season 2 and 4. Plus, Sheridan wasn't the only target, and he's loyal to those he's in charge of as any good commander would be. The reporters went after a host of other staffers in spinning the story away from the truth. Given all of that.. it's not hard top understand Sheridan's more than reluctant response to interviews and the like.
The ISA is quite probably not going to function the way a modern day government does, which seems to be your point of comparison. Apologies if that's not the case.
I sense that your opposition may come from not liking the show, or perhaps just not Season 5. Whic is fine, and acceptable. Referring to the staff as "cronies" is not really accurate. This is a multi-cultural alliance that did elect Sheridan. He was bound to answer to them, and that led him to do things that he probably woudl not have chosen to do were it left up to just him.
Again, when it comes to Garibaldi that erratic behavior as you put it was because of Bester's operation. Psi Corps is not going to be in anywhere near the position of power an influence anymore, so as far as explanation go this one flies. Also remember that telepaths are a part of that world, so telepathic influence is probably going to be a believable excuse. At least to any sort of body charged with approving these appointments. Maybe that body is just ambassadors of the member worlds, who knows?
Oh, I love the show, but you're right, I'm not keen on season five, and a part of that was that I no longer found the politics credible - or so far as they were credible (in that Sheridan had effectively been chosen as dictator - in the classical, Roman sense - by an alliance of alien leaders, and from that position it was up to him to create a functioning democracy within the new alliance), something to be treated as a good thing. There was too much of a sense that 'Sheridan is a good man, so it's OK for him to behave that way'. That's rarely ended well, certainly not as well as jms depicted it (despite all the crises).
I still say IT'S A TRAP!!!
I disagree. He was established as military governor of Babylon 5 once he took command.
Neither do the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.
Funny, I was just going to say the same about you and BSG.
That's rather different from being a career politician, though.
The difference is that I don't watch the show and honestly ... probably won't for some time. At the moment, I'm going through Dr. Who. I'll get to nuBSG one of these days.
So... that excuses his otherwise politically motivated actions? You can't have it both ways, Neroon. Sheridan isn't some squeaky clean new thinking politician. All it took was some authority and it went to his head. Now, I'm not saying he wasn't right or that it didn't end well, but he played the game just like any other politician would.
The difference is that I don't watch the show and honestly ... probably won't for some time. At the moment, I'm going through Dr. Who. I'll get to nuBSG one of these days.[/quote]
I envy you. To experience nuBSG for the first time is exhilerating. Wish I could do it all over again. Doctor Who is pretty fantastic though as well.
I got sick of Galactica after season two. The writing was strong, but I prefer something lighter. Doctor Who is great stuff!
I never said any of that. I'm not at all trying to "have it both ways." nor am I saying his character is a squeaky clean politician. Politics by its very nature means you will get your hands dirty at some point.
What I am saying is that he is not politically motivated in any way while running B5. Not in the least. The station, significant as its role is, is still a much smaller scale than the ISA. And he has a much more military oriented role in it. His role there was not to take over the entire Earth Alliance or the League. It was to fight the Shadows for and with the other races, and then return control of Earth Gov to its rightful leaders. He is a warrior first, and politician is quite a bit farther down the list. That changes when he becomes president of the ISA, he has left that military role behind, having resigned from Earth Force. What in any of that constitutes "going to his head"? He came back from Z'ha'dum more resolute in what had to be done, but that wasn't ego.
Interesting. I'd agree with that except... I don't see Sheridan leaving the military behind when he becomes president. He continues to act like a commander, just one who's now at the top of the chain of authority.
Which is fair enough - that's his character and it won't change overnight. But while I wouldn't have thought about it in these terms till this discussion came up, looking at it now I think that this is one of the big failings and missed opportunities of season five:
You have this accomplished military man, used to working within a chain of command, who's effectively drafted by Londo, G'Kar and Delenn to become president. Now you could show him trying to be president in his old military way, and failing. Or you could show him learning how to be a politician, to do the deal-making and persuasion that involves rather than simply giving or taking orders. There'd surely be lots of reasoned opposition to Earth being forced into the ISA, but in season five it's represented only by terrorists like the assassin in 5-01, rather than political leaders that Sheridan has to handle - think of the potential of having as an antagonist someone who resisted the Clark regime and was jailed, but now opposes Earth going into the alliance, in an echo of all the anti-communists who became extreme nationalist leaders as the Soviet Union broke up. A Mandela figure, almost - but one who happens to be utterly opposed to Sheridan's central policy.
I applaud jms for wanting to show us the aftermath - in effect, Sheridan as George Washington, forced into a political role he didn't particularly want, but one which will be defined by the precedent he sets. But I don't think it was well done, and certainly not that the authoritarian precedent Sheridan sets is a very good one...
full size: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/backstept/adama-081.jpg
Captain Edward Jellico. I don't want a leader who wants to be my best buddy. I want a leader who knows how to kick ass and organize people effectively.
That link is dead
And I totally agree with you.
Sheridan - because with Sheridan you also get DeLenn and she makes up for all his short comings.
I kind of like Hammond too. I think he showed good leadership throughout his tenure in Stargate. He knew when to be tough and when to show restraint but always, his people came first.
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