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What other things can we change for The Drooling Masses?

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Disagree with you = troll. Got it! :techman:

No, the fact that you are here deliberately to fight and flame, basically participating in an internet urinal contest, means that you're a troll (in m y view).

There are plenty of people I disagree with quite civilly that I don't consider trolls. But they don't generally cross the line into ad hominen attacks or go on the board bragging about winning internet arguments, either.
 
I know not everyone looks at things this way. But a lot of people do. And these people tend to be among the smarter people in society. Which, it's known, correlates to the "best off" among society reasonably well... which in turn relates to "the ones that the studios want to make into fans of their product so they'll keep watching, keep buying, etc, etc."
People like you are the reason Trek is completely disrespected as a work of art. You're so obsessed with minutiae and minor details like whether or not the design of the ship APPEARS to fit into the aesthetic established in previous entries in the canon that you'll start ranting and raving and try to imply that people who disagree with you -- people who value creativity over technicality -- are somehow less intelligent than you are. You're so threatened by change -- and relatively unimportant change at that -- that you'll insult other people over it. Which is particularly ironic, because one of the primary themes of Star Trek is the inevitability and positive nature of change.

Guess what? PLENTY of intelligent people believe in being creative and re-interpreting things for the sake of trying to inject new life and energy into them, or trying to see them through new lenses. Why do you think Brecht took the Threepenny Opera and completely re-adapted it for a 20th Century audience? Why else do you think Larson took La Boheme and re-adapted it into a rock opera in the mid-90s? Why else do you think Moore took the Charlton Comics characters and completely re-adapted them to create Watchmen? Why else do you think Nolan took the Batman mythos and completely re-interpreted it for a post-9/11, post-Iraq, post-Katrina America in The Dark Knight? Why else do you think Lennon took compositions like "Moonlight Sonata" by Beethoven and re-adapted it into the song "Because?" Why else do you think Taymor took the entire Beatles library and adapted them into an epic film musical about the entire 1960s?

As Shatner once said -- and, by the way, William Shatner, Captain Kirk himself, has no problem with the new Enterprise -- "Get a life."
Wow... that's one heck of a ranting flame-fest there, pal...

Make up your mind. Is Trek "entertainment" or is it "art?" Last time I heard you chime in on this, you were adamantly opposed to it being treated as art (you were mocking the discussions of folks talking about how changing the Enterprise is like putting up another painting and telling folks its the Mona Lisa).

Star Trek was successful through the 1970s and 1980s, as well as the 1960s, because a lot of very smart, very successful people in influential positions were Star Trek fans. Sorry if you find that threatening, but it's an acknowledged fact. And the more intelligent, more highly educated among society do tend to be the higher earners... and the higher earners do tend to be those with more disposable income.

How much income do you think that Paramount has seen brought in from this "niche market" over the past forty years? Not from stupid brainless twits but from guys who run Mars exploration programs at JPL, or who design control systems for the space shuttle, or who design communications satellites?

How much do you think came from those who failed out of their math courses in High School?

So... who do you think has been at the center of PPC's lucrative "cash cow" for the past few decades, again?

Here's something you might want to consider... taking offense at this simple fact illustrates that you, my friend, are the one who would do well to "get a life." I get the basics of finance here, which you seem not to.

If you question my point, just look up any discussion of classic Star Trek's ratings, in light of how ratings were calculated before, and then after, that timeframe.

"Demographics" might be a good word to read up on as well.

Since reading comprehension seems not to be your strong suit:

Go back and read my statement again. At no point did I say I felt threatened by the fact that smart people are Star Trek fans. What I was arguing against was your implication that anybody who thinks that creatively re-interpreting Star Trek must be less intelligent than you and other Trek fans.
 
Sorry, but I fail to see how this film manages to erase anything at all. So what if it's a new continuity, big deal. All our beloved old Trek still exists on dvd for our viewing pleasure. I really don't get what the problem is.

Because, in the future, it prevents a revisitation that I might actually like? :)

You can like it or not, but saying that it erases all Trek continuity from TOS onward is a bit silly in my opinion- and please don't take this as a personal insult (you people who use this argument), because that's not my intention at all.

I mean it literally. The purpose of the plot of the movie is to 'wipe the slate clean' for continuity for future stories. It's a way to elminate the 'canon' baggage from the franchise. Now, this is a bit strange to me, since it seems like it would be simpler to just.. ya know.. start over and say so. I think most fans would be MORE forgiving than having an 'in canon' explanation as to why canon is being wiped clean.

Okay, I suppose I see your point: you think that if they'd said it's a reboot, it would be less problematic? Well many people seem to be bothered by that, even claiming JJ lied to us.... but I, personally (and in no way speaking for anyone else) don't see the problem. It doesn't trouble me at all. I'm willing to take this movie as a stand-alone, and if I like it (and I want to, I really do), I'll worry about the rest of Trek later- probably not at all.

I'm one of those people who are willing to wait and see what JJ and cohorts have in mind for Trek. To me, it doesn't erase anything, regardless of his saying it's a reboot or not, if you catch my drift. I'm sure you do.
 
I'm one of those people who are willing to wait and see what JJ and cohorts have in mind for Trek. To me, it doesn't erase anything, regardless of his saying it's a reboot or not, if you catch my drift. I'm sure you do.

And, fine. I'm just thinking that, if you want the "Star Trek" name, isn't it because of the baggage? If you're just going to reboot anyway, why jump through the hoops which will more likely serve to hurt your product than to help it? Seems like an odd choice to me, that's all.
 
I'm one of those people who are willing to wait and see what JJ and cohorts have in mind for Trek. To me, it doesn't erase anything, regardless of his saying it's a reboot or not, if you catch my drift. I'm sure you do.

And, fine. I'm just thinking that, if you want the "Star Trek" name, isn't it because of the baggage? If you're just going to reboot anyway, why jump through the hoops which will more likely serve to hurt your product than to help it? Seems like an odd choice to me, that's all.

Batman, Bond... yes their re-boot hurt those franchises... not.
 
Keeping or not keeping the old design? It's an arbitrary choice either way. And besides, like I said, a hell of a lot of people who are not One Of Us would probably say that the design isn't even different enough for them to notice.

So if a person on the street wouldn't notice why change it?
I am sure I am going to get warned for this and I'll take one for the team.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU BEING SUCH A MASSIVE DROOLING IDIOT ABOUT IT?? The design was perfect FOR THE 60'S you stupid prick! The design SCREAMS "I was designed in the 60's". The straight lines, the simplicity, it all depicts it is an OLD DESIGN. It had to be updated for the modern movie going audiences, the ones that are the most needed to make this movie into a success and bring Star Trek to a new generation. Movie audiences are visual creatures that will like whatever looks nice to them. It is not a period piece that needs to be strictly adhered to visually with the times depicted.

The new design is the exact design that Gene Roddenberry or Matt Jeffries would design had they been the people of this generation. Back in the 60's real life designs were simple and Jeffries took inspiration from that! Just like the designers of this movie is taking inspiration from modern electronics designs of today. Ever been to an electronics store and notice how the stuff in there is vastly different from the designs on the 60's?

Goddamn it, you blabber and blabber but not for one fuckdamn reason do you even hear what others are saying. Or give ANY reasons why YOU think the older design would be a better choice over the new one besides your emotional attachment to it. :rolleyes: Hell, even Captain "William Shatner" Kirk likes the new design so STFU you drooling mass!
Well, that's pretty unambiguous. One for flaming, mostly for the bits I've put in boldface.

I do hope this notion of "taking one for the team" doesn't catch on in a big way, though. That thought does not fill me with joy. Further, I'm beginning to wonder whether this thread may have outlived whatever usefulness it had to begin with; I guess I'll know more about that shortly.

EDIT:

As the bulk of the thread following the warned post has devolved into a snipe-fest, I'll apologize to those few who tried to keep having a discussion in spite of it all and declare this one closed. I'm sure someone's pleased with the way this turned out, but it's not me.
 
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Batman, Bond... yes their re-boot hurt those franchises... not.

Batman had already been rebooted a few dozen times and that was BEFORE Adam West, for God's Sake.

Bond was hurt the first time it was 'rebooted', back with On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Dalton's 'Reboot' did so badly that Bond was off the radar for nearly a decade. Hell, Casino Royale wasn't exactly a major hit either, though it did well enough. But the 'hate and rage' over the new Bond continues.

And neither were the laughing stock of the entertainment industry that Star Trek has become in the past decade. It didn't take MUCH to reset Batman for 'Batman Begins' , or for Casino Royale to come back. Both properties were alive enough that their base could carry something if need be. Star Trek can't even sell an MMO reliably.

Seriously, ST-One, do you do any research before you open your pie-hole?
 
Batman, Bond... yes their re-boot hurt those franchises... not.

Batman had already been rebooted a few dozen times and that was BEFORE Adam West, for God's Sake.

Bond was hurt the first time it was 'rebooted', back with On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Dalton's 'Reboot' did so badly that Bond was off the radar for nearly a decade. Hell, Casino Royale wasn't exactly a major hit either, though it did well enough. But the 'hate and rage' over the new Bond continues.

And neither were the laughing stock of the entertainment industry that Star Trek has become in the past decade. It didn't take MUCH to reset Batman for 'Batman Begins' , or for Casino Royale to come back. Both properties were alive enough that their base could carry something if need be. Star Trek can't even sell an MMO reliably.

Seriously, ST-One, do you do any research before you open your pie-hole?

Another actor a Bond doesn't constitute a reboot. :rolleyes:
Casino Royale was the first reboot of the Bond-franchise, all the other films where part of the same continuity.

Obviously Batman required these reboots - as does Star Trek now.
 
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