What made Spock better in s02e01?

[Serpenta001]

I'm watching the original Star Trek series and the last episode was a bit confusing to me. In the episode, Mr. Spock comes down with "Pon Farr", some kind of Vulcan version of being in heat. In the episode, it says that if he doesn't mate, he'll die.

My confusion is: Why didn't he die? He never mated, only fought against Kirk, then gave up his right to his bride. After the fight he was suddenly better without ever having mated.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Myko]

Killing Kirk made him snap out of the madness.

MCCOY: Spock, what happened down there? The girl? The wedding?
SPOCK: Ah, yes, the girl. Most interesting. It must have been the combat. When I thought I had killed the captain, I found I had lost all interest in T'Pring. The madness was gone.

 

[BillJ]

Killing Kirk made him snap out of the madness.

MCCOY: Spock, what happened down there? The girl? The wedding?
SPOCK: Ah, yes, the girl. Most interesting. It must have been the combat. When I thought I had killed the captain, I found I had lost all interest in T'Pring. The madness was gone.

This. Vulcan males need to get it on or kill someone.

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe it was just the telepathic connection between him and T'Pring that defused the need! Especially after she rejected him as her mate!
JB

 

[Albertese]

Also, people generally refer to episodes by name rather than number. We all know you are talking about "Amok Time" but a lot of times, the production order and the air date order don't line up. For example, S1E1 could either be "Where No Man Has Gone Before" or "The Man Trap" depending on what order you mean. Netflix has them in Air Date Order, but various DVD sets do it both ways. And the reference book Star Trek Chronology used production order.

S2E1 is "Amok Time" as you are discussing, but in production order S2E1 would be "Catspaw" and "Amok Time" becomes S2E5.

Just a friendly PSA...

--Alex

 

[Serpenta001]

Killing Kirk made him snap out of the madness.

MCCOY: Spock, what happened down there? The girl? The wedding?
SPOCK: Ah, yes, the girl. Most interesting. It must have been the combat. When I thought I had killed the captain, I found I had lost all interest in T'Pring. The madness was gone.

Oh thank you! I see there was something I was missing.

Also, people generally refer to episodes by name rather than number. We all know you are talking about "Amok Time" but a lot of times, the production order and the air date order don't line up. For example, S1E1 could either be "Where No Man Has Gone Before" or "The Man Trap" depending on what order you mean. Netflix has them in Air Date Order, but various DVD sets do it both ways. And the reference book Star Trek Chronology used production order.

S2E1 is "Amok Time" as you are discussing, but in production order S2E1 would be "Catspaw" and "Amok Time" becomes S2E5.

Just a friendly PSA...

--Alex

Gotcha! On netflix, it has the first episode of season 1 as "the cage". It was quite confusing when the entire cast changed after the first episode.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Maybe it was just the telepathic connection between him and T'Pring that defused the need! Especially after she rejected him as her mate!
JB

I'm thinking it's a bit more complicated than that, johnnybear. Remember, Spock says near the beginning of "Amok Time" that he and T'Pring have been telepathically joined since both were seven years old, but Spock still experiences pon farr. Moreover, in Voyager's "Blood Fever," B'Elanna Torres rejects Vorik's attentions despite the telepathic bond that the ensign initiates, but neither the rejection nor the bond serves as a cure. Indeed, B'Elanna ends up challenging Vorik (and incidentally winning the fight), and only after that is the fever purged from the two of them. With the benefit of that hindsight, I'm guessing that the act of fighting is part of what cures Spock's plak tow in "Amok Time," the rest being his shock at believing he has killed Kirk.

I have to wonder, though: Would a Vulcan who was never telepathically joined with anyone else even experience pon farr to begin with? Food for thought . . .

 

[Greg Cox]

I have to wonder, though: Would a Vulcan who was never telepathically joined with anyone else even experience pon farr to begin with? Food for thought . . .

In the third movie, the regenerated Spock experiences pon farr even though he has not telepathically joined with anyone in that life--and, in fact, has not had his mind and memories restored to him yet.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

Killing Kirk made him snap out of the madness.

MCCOY: Spock, what happened down there? The girl? The wedding?
SPOCK: Ah, yes, the girl. Most interesting. It must have been the combat. When I thought I had killed the captain, I found I had lost all interest in T'Pring. The madness was gone.

I'd always assumed, in these situations with Vulcans the far easier solution is, of course, some lovin'. However, that the 'kill someone' cure actually works due to the severe emotional strain a fight to the death/killing a friend would have that 'overrides' and 'cures' Pon Farr.

The Vulcan brain [which is initiating Pon Farr] cannot actually know what sex is, it simply must react to the chemicals released in the brain when the deed has been done. Perhaps a similarly strenuous, 'stressful' situation [like the aforementioned fight] is enough to trigger a similar 'cancel Pon Farr' response in the Vulcan brain. [I.E A situation of similar, animalistic emotion]

 

[Maurice]

s02e01 looks so silly. When did people stop referring to episodes by name?

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Would a Vulcan who was never telepathically joined with anyone else even experience pon farr to begin with?

In the third movie, the regenerated Spock experiences pon farr even though he has not telepathically joined with anyone in that life--and, in fact, has not had his mind and memories restored to him yet.

Ouch. That's what I get for not making it through the movies. (Long story, and best not told here.)

The Vulcan brain [which is initiating Pon Farr] cannot actually know what sex is, it simply must react to the chemicals released in the brain when the deed has been done. Perhaps a similarly strenuous, 'stressful' situation [like the aforementioned fight] is enough to trigger a similar 'cancel Pon Farr' response in the Vulcan brain. [I.E A situation of similar, animalistic emotion]

Greg Cox and TheGoodStuff, thank you both for putting me to rights; I appreciate that. It's a testament to Spock's strong will that he's able to speak even while fighting the plak tow; remember how surprised T'Pau is by that?

 

[FormerLurker]

I have to wonder, though: Would a Vulcan who was never telepathically joined with anyone else even experience pon farr to begin with? Food for thought . . .

In the third movie, the regenerated Spock experiences pon farr even though he has not telepathically joined with anyone in that life--and, in fact, has not had his mind and memories restored to him yet.

It's part of my personal canon that this was just an echo, caused by some kind of 'race memory' type situation, where Spock's body knows it is supposed to react to something at this age, and Saavik's presence calms him. I've never even considered that they actually got it on.

 

[Greg Cox]

I have to wonder, though: Would a Vulcan who was never telepathically joined with anyone else even experience pon farr to begin with? Food for thought . . .

In the third movie, the regenerated Spock experiences pon farr even though he has not telepathically joined with anyone in that life--and, in fact, has not had his mind and memories restored to him yet.

It's part of my personal canon that this was just an echo, caused by some kind of 'race memory' type situation, where Spock's body knows it is supposed to react to something at this age, and Saavik's presence calms him. I've never even considered that they actually got it on.

The movie is ambiguous, but Robin Curtis certainly thinks that Spock and Saavik had sex in that scene. She was expecting Saavik to be pregnant in the next movie--as did a lot of fans, as I recall.

And I remember Nimoy teasing fans that there might be a little sex in the movie, when he spoke at my college a few months before the movie opened.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

s02e01 looks so silly. When did people stop referring to episodes by name?

I've always referred to the episodes by their titles, and don't know of anyone (apart from characters that were being portrayed as 'sci-fi nerds' on old TV sitcoms, etc., written by someone who did not actually watch Trek) who used episode numbers. Is this something new I missed or conversations that I missed years ago?

 

[Albertese]

s02e01 looks so silly. When did people stop referring to episodes by name?

I've always referred to the episodes by their titles, and don't know of anyone (apart from characters that were being portrayed as 'sci-fi nerds' on old TV sitcoms, etc., written by someone who did not actually watch Trek) who used episode numbers. Is this something new I missed or conversations that I missed years ago?

Referring to an episode (of any series on TV, I'm not referring to Trek, here) by its season and episode number is a convenient shorthand for television as it exists today. Binging whole seasons of a show in a weekend is kind of normal, at least among all the people I know. And since most dramas these days seem to have season long story arcs rather than being truly episodic, you can easily talk about a show with your pals by number as you can gauge if an event happened early or late in the arc... But since Star Trek and shows of similar vintage never followed this sort of format, the number reference thing loses its utility. In fact, as I think most of us are aware (but I'll mention anyways for those who aren't), twentieth century network television was often specifically designed so that the series could later be sold into syndication and have the episodes play in any order the local markets cared to run them in. I recall the local station when I was a kid in the 90's (KPDX Channel 12) playing both TOS and TNG reruns in seemingly no particular order. (I recall the "Time's Arrow" episodes being over-represented in the roster for some reason.)

So, in short, for what airs today, episode numbers are a nifty shorthand, but for the episodic television of yore, its not really useful at all.

--Alex

 

[Greg Cox]

s02e01 looks so silly. When did people stop referring to episodes by name?

I've always referred to the episodes by their titles, and don't know of anyone (apart from characters that were being portrayed as 'sci-fi nerds' on old TV sitcoms, etc., written by someone who did not actually watch Trek) who used episode numbers. Is this something new I missed or conversations that I missed years ago?

Yeah, that's the one thing that sitcoms and comedy sketches often get wrong when portraying fans, that we know all the episodes numbers (and comic book issues numbers) by heart, and refer to them that way in casual conversation:

"Hey, remember that time in Episode #49, when Spock used his mind-meld on that Romulan chick."

"Yeah, that was okay, I guess, but Episode #64 is still the best mind-meld episode, except maybe issue #132 of the Gold Key comic series."

"Don't be silly. The comic books don't count!'

 

[The Old Mixer]

To split hairs, back when I was more into it, it was pretty common to refer to comics by their issue numbers, certainly moreso than, say, individual story titles. This likely has changed in the era of trade paperback collections. But back in the old days at the comic shop, if somebody referenced "X-Men #137", you knew what they were talking about.

As for this thread title, my first thought when I saw it was, "I'm guessing this isn't about 'Catspaw'...."

ETA: Also, I realize that the more recent trend of restarting the numbering of a series for a new #1 has probably made issue numbers a much less useful reference point...but the point stands that given my own experience, old-school comics geeks discussing classic issues by their numbers doesn't strike me as an inauthentic detail.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

And I remember Nimoy teasing fans that there might be a little sex in the movie, when he spoke at my college a few months before the movie opened.

Greg Cox, I've always wondered what would have happened if Spock and Chapel had had an affair in "Amok Time." It's perfectly clear from the script that he propositioned her:

SPOCK: Miss Chapel.
CHAPEL: Yes, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: I had a most startling dream. You were trying to tell me something, but I couldn't hear you. It would be illogical for us to protest against our natures. Don't you think?
CHAPEL: I don't understand.
SPOCK: Your face is wet.
CHAPEL: I came to tell you that we are bound for Vulcan. We'll be there in just a few days.
SPOCK: Vulcan. Miss Chapel.
CHAPEL: My name is Christine.
SPOCK: Yes, I know, Christine. Would you make me some of that plomeek soup?
CHAPEL: Oh, I'd be very glad to do that, Mister Spock.

See The Star Trek Transcripts, "Amok Time"

Did Chapel truly not understand the implications of what Spock was asking of her? And if she did understand them, why didn't she accept his offer? Granted, he was a senior officer, but she was in love with him by this point as per "The Naked Time." (And as far as I know, she never stopped loving him thereafter.) I find her reluctance under the circumstances mystifying, to say the least.

 

[Greg Cox]

To split hairs, back when I was more into it, it was pretty common to refer to comics by their issue numbers, certainly moreso than, say, individual story titles. This likely has changed in the era of trade paperback collections. But back in the old days at the comic shop, if somebody referenced "X-Men #137", you knew what they were talking about.

As for this thread title, my first thought when I saw it was, "I'm guessing this isn't about 'Catspaw'...."

ETA: Also, I realize that the more recent trend of restarting the numbering of a series for a new #1 has probably made issue numbers a much less useful reference point...but the point stands that given my own experience, old-school comics geeks discussing classic issues by their numbers doesn't strike me as an inauthentic detail.

I remember that being the case with certain landmark issues, like FANTASTIC FOUR #48 or something, but most of the time my friends and I talked about "the Galactus Trilogy" or "Flash of Two Worlds" or "the Kree-Skrull War" or "the Dark Phoenix Saga" or "The Death of Gwen Stacy" or whatever. And this was long before trade paper collections.

Then again, I have no head for numbers. I could not tell you the issue numbers for most of those stories if my life depended on it!

 

[Timo]

Moreover, in Voyager's "Blood Fever," B'Elanna Torres rejects Vorik's attentions despite the telepathic bond that the ensign initiates, but neither the rejection nor the bond serves as a cure. Indeed, B'Elanna ends up challenging Vorik (and incidentally winning the fight), and only after that is the fever purged from the two of them.

In that episode, B'Elanna essentially played the part of a Vulcan male - due to the bond attempt that went awry, B'Elanna became a "second Vorik".

But going back to the conditions as set in "Amok Time" (which is a somewhat bad example because the male there is only half-Vulcan and is explicitly having an abnormal pon farr), Vulcan males according to Spock don't have to "mate" - they have to "find a mate" or "take a wife". Whether there's sex afterwards is not said out loud (which is to be expected in a 1960s show). And Spock found a mate...

...One who happened to reject him. After that, there was a duel, the rules of which dictated a fight to the death. But that was just rules, not biology.

Essentially, we have seen many a Vulcan in the throes of pon farr, and there's never any death involved. Spock may be talking out of his ass in "Amok Time", either because he is too damn secretive and tries to cover the embarrassing truth in silly lies; because he is ignorant of the facts of life, especially because of being confused by his dualistic biology; or because he's already crazy with lust and just babbling nonsense. Note that he compares pon farr to the mating drive of the salmon - which is wildly inaccurate because the salmon only mate once in life, and die immediately afterwards, whereas Vulcans have a repeating cycle as established in later episodes.

We could always take Spock literally, though. What he really says is "..We are driven by forces we cannot control to return home and take a wife. Or die." The "or die" part may well refer to the (rare) duel and its known risks, rather than to any inevitable loss of life from failure to return home.

Timo Saloniemi