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What kind of civilization do the Romulans have?

And there's no reason to think that that vocabulary is automatically chosen by the UT program. It's entirely possible it was just chosen by early Humans because they thought the name "Romulan" (canonically established to be their phonetic name in ENT's "Minefield") reminded them of Romulus.
Not exactly ... Hoshi, someone establish as possessing a talented ear, heard the "Romulans" refer phonetically to themselves as the Romalin Star Empire. T'Pol (a senior officer) then instructed her to pronouce it Romulan. But the thing is, Hoshi just got through listening to a communication from a Romulan ship, she heard a Romulan pronounce their race/species name as Romalin, off of their own tongue.

So whose pronunciation was correct, the Romulan's Romalin, or the Vulcan's Romulan?

Hoshi created programming for the first generation UT, she could have inserted instructions to render Romalin as Romulan, base on T'Pol's incorrect pronunciation.

:)
 
If the Rommies are supposed to some kind of special race bred for war, can say that they suck at fighting? [chuckle] It seems like they don't want to get their hands dirty in killing and fighting. If you want to fight well, you have to accept the fact that killing and hurting is OK and making it a second nature. And You can't be afraid of your enemies because if you think you are going to loose, then you are going to loose and if you think you are going to die, they you are going to die. Just like in any crisis in life (whether it'd be personal problems), you have to think you are going to be OK and accept your fear to be able to control it. You have to be able to kill them in an instant when opportunities arise. And just because you're not afraid of your oppenents or enemies doesn't mean you can't respect them. When you fight, you can't be afraid to get hurt and of your enemies, and be afraid to kill or hurt them, and you must respect them. This is how they trained Thai soldiers and Muay Thai fighters and it's probably why Muay Thai fighters have the reputation of be nearly unbeatable and seemingly invincible and also why Thai people have the reputation of being stubborn and pig headed, men and women, they seemed kindda blood lust at time during wartime. Often time, they would say something like, it's OK to kill the invading enemies; it's not evil if it's self defense...making it seemed like it's OK to kill. They would go through training where they probably fought each other and prasing them when knocked out someone or give them bloody nose; it feels like it gives them special power when they actually hit someone...like they could do anything. It's a very powerful feeling. Never underestimate the power of the mind. This is also why serial killers kill or why some people love full contact sports, such as, mixed martial arts. If you see UFC fighters fight, they can totally anialate each other; you can tell who is going to win...it's usually the one that's got the most guts (it's like a beast is inside them).
 
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If the Rommies are supposed to some kind of special race bred for war,

What on Earth gave you that idea? There's nothing out there supporting that notion.

can say that they suck at fighting? [chuckle] It seems like they don't want to get their hands dirty in killing and fighting.

I really have no idea where you're getting this, or why you're turning it into yet another excuse to ramble about how awesome Thailand and Thais are.
 
If you want to apply Earth style political terminology to the Romulan Empire then the closest analogy would be "Authoritarianism". We have no idea how they elect their governments, but I'm willing to run with the idea that the best people for the job get the job and everyone is in agreement, because most of them share the same ideals (and the ones that don't get demoted, see ENT).
 
It's more like tutoletarian...or at least it seems like it. They mentioned in Nemesis that the faction with the real power are the one usually backed by the military. I figure that maybe a praetor usually answer to who ever is in charge of the military or maybe he is a dictator who also deal with the system and commerce.
 
If the Rommies are supposed to some kind of special race bred for war,

What on Earth gave you that idea? There's nothing out there supporting that notion.

can say that they suck at fighting? [chuckle] It seems like they don't want to get their hands dirty in killing and fighting.
I really have no idea where you're getting this, or why you're turning it into yet another excuse to ramble about how awesome Thailand and Thais are.

I'm just trying to clarify how people who knows how to fight do it in a real fight for survival, life and death situations. The Romulans seem to pride themselves on being professional soldiers and boast they are one of the greatest professional soldiers have ever seen; that's why I mentioned about Muay Thai and how they train people to fight in the ring and on the battlefield.

Oh, and P.S. They also drill into their head that the enemies are no joke and they will kill you without mercy often with some kind of rough physical contact, making the soldiers associate with being in control and dominated by the enemies that want to mercilessly kill you, so they will remember to respect them...
 
that's why I mentioned about Muay Thai and how they train people to fight in the ring and on the battlefield.
While Muay Thai is a decent competitive fighting style, on the modern battlefield, the Thai people currently possess no reputation of particular note.

The Romulans are one of the few interstellar states that we know is composed of more than one species, assuming the Romulans and the Remans are truly separate species (I've heard it both ways).

Data said during Nemesis: "The Remans themselves are considered an undesirable caste in the hierarchy of the Empire." You have to have more that one caste to have castes at all. And if they have two, then the possibility exist that there are more, even dozens.

From dialog in Nemesis, Shinzon (who came from the mines of Remus) became a commanding officer during the Dominion War. So not all personnel in the Romulan military are ethnic Romulan. Aboard the Scimitar there were no Romulans to be seen, and the Remans had no problem operating it, so perhaps the Remans also served in the Romulan fleet. The Remans held positions other than simple infantry cannon fodder.

If for centuries the Romulans had been conquering the star systems surrounding Romulus, systems with indigenous populations, then the Empire could be a multiple species, multiple culture nation. With the ethic Vulcanoid Romulans themselves be at the top of any societal latter. One thing I remember about the Romans was, all the peoples that they conquered became Roman citizens. So going from that the peoples of the surrounding star systems might also be Romulan citizens. First, second ... fifth class citizens. All have a position in the Empire. Perhaps their government has a wide variety of non-Romulans in their version of the lower legislature or commons, with the Romulans being the "Lords" or the senate.

:)
 
Of course, the reality is that at the start the Romulans were space-Nazis. Balance of Terror is so note-for-note "The Enemy Below" that Kreigsmarine is a better analogy than space centurions. They ever elude to superiority as justification for conquest,"If we are the strong, isn't this the signal for war?"
 
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If the Rommies are supposed to some kind of special race bred for war,

What on Earth gave you that idea? There's nothing out there supporting that notion.

can say that they suck at fighting? [chuckle] It seems like they don't want to get their hands dirty in killing and fighting.
I really have no idea where you're getting this, or why you're turning it into yet another excuse to ramble about how awesome Thailand and Thais are.

I'm just trying to clarify how people who knows how to fight do it in a real fight for survival, life and death situations.

Which has nothing to do with what Romulan civilization is like. Sure, they want the Imperial Fleet to be a respected military force, but they don't base their civilization around fighting, nor do they consider themselves "bred for war" or whatever. These are Romulans, not Klingons.
 
What on Earth gave you that idea? There's nothing out there supporting that notion.

I really have no idea where you're getting this, or why you're turning it into yet another excuse to ramble about how awesome Thailand and Thais are.

I'm just trying to clarify how people who knows how to fight do it in a real fight for survival, life and death situations.

Which has nothing to do with what Romulan civilization is like. Sure, they want the Imperial Fleet to be a respected military force, but they don't base their civilization around fighting, nor do they consider themselves "bred for war" or whatever. These are Romulans, not Klingons.

The Romulans appear to have a high level of prudence when it comes to the use of military force, minus the Tal Shiars disastrous military incursion alongside the Cardassians in the Die is Cast they are not particarly aggressive, and as far as we know in the entire run of TNG and DS9 they were static as far as conquests go.

I agree with you 100% and I find all this comparison between Rome and the Romulans academically flawed, there's really very little comparison beyond the names being similair.
 
that's why I mentioned about Muay Thai and how they train people to fight in the ring and on the battlefield.
While Muay Thai is a decent competitive fighting style, on the modern battlefield, the Thai people currently possess no reputation of particular note.

The Romulans are one of the few interstellar states that we know is composed of more than one species, assuming the Romulans and the Remans are truly separate species (I've heard it both ways).

Data said during Nemesis: "The Remans themselves are considered an undesirable caste in the hierarchy of the Empire." You have to have more that one caste to have castes at all. And if they have two, then the possibility exist that there are more, even dozens.

From dialog in Nemesis, Shinzon (who came from the mines of Remus) became a commanding officer during the Dominion War. So not all personnel in the Romulan military are ethnic Romulan. Aboard the Scimitar there were no Romulans to be seen, and the Remans had no problem operating it, so perhaps the Remans also served in the Romulan fleet. The Remans held positions other than simple infantry cannon fodder.

If for centuries the Romulans had been conquering the star systems surrounding Romulus, systems with indigenous populations, then the Empire could be a multiple species, multiple culture nation. With the ethic Vulcanoid Romulans themselves be at the top of any societal latter. One thing I remember about the Romans was, all the peoples that they conquered became Roman citizens. So going from that the peoples of the surrounding star systems might also be Romulan citizens. First, second ... fifth class citizens. All have a position in the Empire. Perhaps their government has a wide variety of non-Romulans in their version of the lower legislature or commons, with the Romulans being the "Lords" or the senate.

:)

Anyone that study Thailand's history will know Thailand has never been conquered by western nations or any foreign powers. And the best place to trained how to fight is in Thailand. Many UFC champions were trained in Thailand including Anderson Silva The Spiderman.

You know if you look at a lot of European history during the time when they were tribal peoples like the American Indians, you will find that they are fearsome fighters...particular the Vikings and Saxons.

One thing about good about Thai culture is they appreciate good fighters...not senselessly killing people, but people who fight for others and to save the country from being anialated and prevent people from being mercilessly slaughter. Who said brave strong men are insensitive and heartless. A lot of these warriors that used to strike fear in the enemies heart on the ancient battlefields are some of the most clever people. A lot of Muay Thai fighters later went on to become lawyers and doctors once they made a lot money that can put themselves through schools and feed their family.
 
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I'm just trying to clarify how people who knows how to fight do it in a real fight for survival, life and death situations.

Which has nothing to do with what Romulan civilization is like. Sure, they want the Imperial Fleet to be a respected military force, but they don't base their civilization around fighting, nor do they consider themselves "bred for war" or whatever. These are Romulans, not Klingons.

The Romulans appear to have a high level of prudence when it comes to the use of military force, minus the Tal Shiars disastrous military incursion alongside the Cardassians in the Die is Cast they are not particarly aggressive, and as far as we know in the entire run of TNG and DS9 they were static as far as conquests go.

I agree with you 100% and I find all this comparison between Rome and the Romulans academically flawed, there's really very little comparison beyond the names being similair.

Hey, you know what? War is war. If you want to fight, don't expect not to get hurt. That's the reality of war. That's why a lot of people are sick of wars because you actually have to fight and kill; and people really die and get disfigured horribly in war. To win you have to take the initiative and take risk...calculated risks. Do you think Alexander the Great, Julius Cesar and Hannibal trembled in fear when they rode out to battles? Every great military geniuses gambles, and many times they could have perished, but the kept pushing it and fighting which is the reasons why they became great conquerors. Fortune favors the brave. You never going to achieve anything if you don't go out there and doing something about it. You can't be afraid of doing something in order to achieve your goal. It's true with anything life.
 
That establishes very clearly, both in script background and in dialogue, that the Romulan Praetor is the head of government.

Only in script background, which doesn't count. There's nothing in the dialogue to establish the Praetor as the supreme leader.

And if that's not enough, the next time we encounter a Romulan Praetor -- two of them, actually, one after another -- it's Hiren and then Shinzon. Both are very clearly the leaders of the Romulan Star Empire.

Hiren is present at (and possibly presiding over) a Senate meeting. The only way he demonstrates leadership is by repeating the government's official position on matters Reman, which is something the lowliest underling could do; apart from that, he's the one who calls in security, which is also something the lowliest court servant would be tasked with doing. Not "clear leader" at all.

Shinzon could lead as warlord and be rightly addressed as Praetor, just like a dictator on Earth could be addressed as General even though this is not a formally acceptable title for the leader of the republic or "republic" he is ruling over.

Just pointing out that we're still at full liberty to interpret the Romulan system as a very close analogy to the Roman one, no matter what the writers may have been thinking, because they didn't put all of that thinking on writing "clearly enough".

You are utterly misremembering "Inter Arma," as I demonstrated above.

True. The background on Neral comes from "Unification" instead, and establishes that character as having started out as a venerable Proconsul and despite this apparently having proceeded with Praetorial ambitions, a seeming step down in status.

Makes sense for somebody with a lifespan of several centuries, though. After becoming Consul and retiring as Proconsul, Neral would have attained all; the civilization wouldn't wish for him to immediately re-attain Consul status, but might benefit from offering it to him again at a later date, after he has once again demonstrated his capabilities as a militant Praetor.

Let's note, though, that the Neral in "Inter Arma" need not be the same character as the Neral in "Unification". The two are played by different actors who don't resemble each other much, not even if counting in a few years of aging (for a species that doesn't visibly age much in a century!). The latter Neral doesn't mention any of the background of the former. We could easily be seeing two members of the same family, one with greater political success ("Unification"), one still striving at an older age ("Inter Arma").

The only canonical reference to Romulan royalty is the reference to a Romulan Empress as one of Q's potential mates in "The Q and the Grey." There is, however, no evidence whatsoever that Q "erased her from history," and the relative dearth of canonical information on the Romulan Emperors is consistent with the mostly ceremonial role postulated for them in the novels.

True. OTOH, it's equally consistent with the complete absence of an Emperor from the modern Romulan political system.

Arbitrary translation traditions are hardly unheard of in history.

The reason to shun arbitrariness does not stem from the few aberrations we see - it stems from the systematic nature of the bulk of the evidence. If only Cardassian and Ferengi militaries get ranks differing from USN ones, then we obviously would like to have an explanation for these lone aberrations.

To be sure, Star Trek tends to give political entities unique names, apparently for the sheer heck of it: Cardassian UNION, Ferengi ALLIANCE, Breen CONFEDERACY, Olivet QUANGO... If the UT or other linguistic authority is this specific with the nature of these political entities, then we should probably assume it's being pedantically accurate with Klingon EMPIRE and Romulan EMPIRE as well.

Or then "Empire" is a generic expression for a political entity that has imperialistic leanings, regardless of the type of government. After all, nobody ever bothered to stop calling the Klingons an EMPIRE despite the knowledge that there was no Emperor. The same could very well hold for the Romulans, a potential imperialistic republic.

And there's no reason to think that that vocabulary is automatically chosen by the UT program.

Save for the already mentioned "troglyte" thing...

Not to mention that our heroes often run into previously unknown aliens, at which point the UT provides them with a fluent translation, complete with complex idioms and weird terminology - without ever consulting our heroes on the choice of words.

On the Romulan/Romalin issue, we might assume that Sato heard a specific grammatic derivation of the root word Romulan, and T'Pol pointed out to her that Romulan was the actual root word and the one that should be used in the given English context. However, it might be that Romalin is the modern Romulan pronunciation, yet T'Pol refuses to use this form and insists on the original, historically established one: "Ignore them; that's no 'National Front of Pure Space'. It's pronounced 'Space Nazis'."

Timo Saloniemi
 
To me, the greatest thing ever in the history of Star Trek was the dialogue spoken between Mark Lenard's unnamed Romulan Commander in Balance of Terror, and the likes of his close friend - the Centurion and Decius, who may only be an underling but who has powerful connections.

"We may yet save your Praetor's pride for him."

On the surface, it's a response to an earlier statement that this Bird of Prey is the Praetor's finest ship. His proudest flagship and it's about to be beaten by an Earth ship. (Further semantics and possible conjecture. Romulans refuse to recognise the Federation, because it was initiated by humans. They also hate the fact it was basically founded in response to their aggression.)

Anyway essentially the other subtext I read into the way Lenard delivers the line, comes across as essentially...

"He may be YOUR President, but I didn't vote for him." :lol:
 
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Which has nothing to do with what Romulan civilization is like. Sure, they want the Imperial Fleet to be a respected military force, but they don't base their civilization around fighting, nor do they consider themselves "bred for war" or whatever. These are Romulans, not Klingons.

The Romulans appear to have a high level of prudence when it comes to the use of military force, minus the Tal Shiars disastrous military incursion alongside the Cardassians in the Die is Cast they are not particarly aggressive, and as far as we know in the entire run of TNG and DS9 they were static as far as conquests go.

I agree with you 100% and I find all this comparison between Rome and the Romulans academically flawed, there's really very little comparison beyond the names being similair.

Hey, you know what? War is war. If you want to fight, don't expect not to get hurt. That's the reality of war. That's why a lot of people are sick of wars because you actually have to fight and kill; and people really die and get disfigured horribly in war. To win you have to take the initiative and take risk...calculated risks. Do you think Alexander the Great, Julius Cesar and Hannibal trembled in fear when they rode out to battles? Every great military geniuses gambles, and many times they could have perished, but the kept pushing it and fighting which is the reasons why they became great conquerors. Fortune favors the brave. You never going to achieve anything if you don't go out there and doing something about it. You can't be afraid of doing something in order to achieve your goal. It's true with anything life.

And none of that has anything to do with what Romulan civilization is like.
 
Romulans are militaristic cultures, right? Their culture is based on conquering and war, so it is normal that the head of the military governs the empire and not politicians. It's more akin to a tutulitarian state at the time when Julius Cesar took control of Rome. For a race that are bent on conquering the galaxy they're not to eager, which is just odd if you asked me. Rome had fought so many times in order to expand their border that they pissed off most of their neighbors.
 
In western countries, historically when they were build their nations and later when building their respective empires, their political leaders were the heads of the military. But it was unusal for them to be "just" the military.
 
but you're talking about warrior race, right? Look at Germany during WW II. Hitler and his men practically rule the country. Other western nations and elsewhere, such as Asia, had feudal systems ruled by the nobles and at the very top the monarchs. They never mention Romulans having a monarch... It's more like a dictatorship system. You see also see that in a lot of middle eastern countries and some Asian country, like Burma, which are govern by dictators.
 
Really, just because the majority of the people we see are in the Romulan military doesn't mean that they're a "warrior race."

It might simple be a case of the Romulans possessing a professional military service. I've never seen what the Romulans have as being a military caste, like what the Klingons seem to have. NEM did seem to show that the military backing a civilian coup, but I saw that as more an agreement to stay out of the way while it happened.
 
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