What Khan would have done to Terrel and Chekov to get their obedience if he had no Ceti Eels?
- Thread starter Shat Happens
- Start date
That depends on who Viola is.
Ah, that's just what passes for bassist jokes in the more uptig.. uptown circles.
http://www.classicfm.com/instruments/viola/viola-jokes/
Timo Saloniemi
http://www.classicfm.com/instruments/viola/viola-jokes/
Timo Saloniemi
Star Trek, The Quentin Tarrantino movie?
Maybe nothing. The eels could be dying out, with no remaining food source to sustain them.
Probably. There's nothing left for THEM to eat.
They appear to still be going through their supplies of canned food.
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=33949&fullsize=1
(Actually, have we ever seen 23rd century canned food? That stuff could be 1990s vintage!
)Considering they brought enough for 90 plus people to sustain themselves until they could establish some means of growing food, and 72 were sent down to the planet, where 20(or more) were killed by the Ceti eels, that pretty much doubled how much food they started with. A smart leader would have brought enough for five years, a canny leader like Khan ten. Double that, and they still have some left when they take over Reliant.
Of course, Khan could be farming all sorts of non-indigenous lifeforms for sustenance. We don't know whether he himself ever stocked up in colonization stuff, and probably nobody went back for the Botany Bay anyway - but the Enterprise could have been packing insta-goats and the like, donating some to Khan because even in its original guise, Ceti Alpha V had little in the way of edibles.
We also have to remember how Star Trek defines "lifeform". Say, the planet where the Kelvans crashed in "By Any Other Name" had no lifeforms despite being a lush paradise. Apollo's planet had no lifeforms, either - and it was stated that the lack of intelligent life in the system "bugs the percentages", as if every star system should have sapience on at least two worlds... The eels being the only remaining lifeform might really just mean the place has six hundred species of edible lichen, plus two delicious types of deep-rooted beet, all of it either masked by the storms or considered insignificant by the Genesis team.
Timo Saloniemi
We also have to remember how Star Trek defines "lifeform". Say, the planet where the Kelvans crashed in "By Any Other Name" had no lifeforms despite being a lush paradise. Apollo's planet had no lifeforms, either - and it was stated that the lack of intelligent life in the system "bugs the percentages", as if every star system should have sapience on at least two worlds... The eels being the only remaining lifeform might really just mean the place has six hundred species of edible lichen, plus two delicious types of deep-rooted beet, all of it either masked by the storms or considered insignificant by the Genesis team.
Timo Saloniemi
Also we know the final result of the Ceti Alpha V orbital shift, but it probably wasn't instant. Could have taken months, even years for the planet to became that way we say it. Plenty of time to stock up native edibles and preserve them; those stretching their prepackaged foods and/or ration packs further.
But it wasn't the Genesis team that made the claim; it was Khan. (And unless he had been all over the planet lately, how would he know?)
Not that the Genesis team was any better. I'll leave it up to each individual to decide if the "minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner" that could possibly be "a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix" was actually colonies of Ceti eels, or the group of sixty or so humans living there...
The point about the lichen is just that Khan might think of it in Trek terms: it isn't animal so it isn't "lifeform".
When Trek adopted that odd definition, we don't know. In the 18th century already, perhaps; there is no era in which it wouldn't appear. Carol would factually worry about lichen be it life or not; the terminology just explains Khan's statement.
Timo Saloniemi
When Trek adopted that odd definition, we don't know. In the 18th century already, perhaps; there is no era in which it wouldn't appear. Carol would factually worry about lichen be it life or not; the terminology just explains Khan's statement.
Timo Saloniemi
Considering the conditions Khans people we living in, i doubt even with Chekov's council Terrell would have left Khans people on that planet. Its not the Starfleet or humane thing to do. Terrell would probably try to make a deal with Khan and say look we'll beam you up but you're be confined to quarters and under guard, and thats how Khan takes over the ship, escapes and his followers use their superior speed and strength to overpower the Reliant's crew.
Or he could have used one of their communicators and told Reliant i have you're Captain and 1st Officer if you don't agree to my terms and beam me and my people up i will kill them. And thus takes the ship that way
Or he could have used one of their communicators and told Reliant i have you're Captain and 1st Officer if you don't agree to my terms and beam me and my people up i will kill them. And thus takes the ship that way
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^ Reliant probably couldn't use its sensors reliably, given all that interference caused by the storms.
Most of the "unrealistic" elements in ST2:TWoK are in fact signs of good continuity with the fictional realm of TOS. In that realm, Starfleet can't tell from a distance that planets in a remote star system would go missing; missions with specific aims are not bogged down by idly scanning or surveying the neighborhood; and transporters, weapons and drives work more or less exactly like they do in the movie.
However, the inability to scan through storms and fail to understand that one is unable to scan has no direct precedent in TOS. The one time our heroes failed to see through a storm into the paradisical reality below unawares, in "Squire of Gothos", it was the work of a superbeing, and not the fault of the poor sensors as such.
Admittedly, though, starship sensors have failed to spot sapient humanoids and their civilizations often enough when these have been hiding underground. The storm as the blocking factor could be excused this once, especially as this is one of those cases where the heroes had no reason to assume there would be any sapient or even animal presence on the entire planet, and indeed explicitly assumed there was none.
Timo Saloniemi
However, the inability to scan through storms and fail to understand that one is unable to scan has no direct precedent in TOS. The one time our heroes failed to see through a storm into the paradisical reality below unawares, in "Squire of Gothos", it was the work of a superbeing, and not the fault of the poor sensors as such.
Admittedly, though, starship sensors have failed to spot sapient humanoids and their civilizations often enough when these have been hiding underground. The storm as the blocking factor could be excused this once, especially as this is one of those cases where the heroes had no reason to assume there would be any sapient or even animal presence on the entire planet, and indeed explicitly assumed there was none.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd have to check(I don't feel like doing that right now), but I remember Gothos having a similar transformation as Yarnek's planet, once Trelane decided he wanted guests.
Chekov: I suppose it could be a particle of preanimate matter caught in the matrix. Ve are having trouble scanning the surface due to all the vind.
Terrell: Wait, we can't scan through... moving air?
Chekov: Vell, there is also... sand.
Terrell: Uh-huh.
If anything is actually actively blocking the sensors, I'd be more inclined to blame it on the "craylon gas" that Beach mentioned, since at least it's fictional, and we don't know what its properties might be. But if that's what it is, the Reliant crew doesn't know it does this, either, since none of them mention it as a possibility.
This is what Spock said about the issue:
Possibly Trelane's castle "always" was an exception to the inhospitable conditions of his planet, then. But it is a case of Starfleet technology defeating the storm through brute force and perseverance after all - not of a superbeing's smoke and mirrors defeating the scans by subtler means.
As for high winds blocking the sensors, it's a miracle the transporters coped with those. Remember "Tattoo"?
Timo Saloniemi
Khan would've stuck them into a decompression chamber while letting the Reliant watch on their viewscreen.
Obviously.
Obviously.
Khan: Each of them in turn will go in there! Die while you watch!
Beach (over comm): But you only have two of them. When they're dead, then what?
Khan: Um...
Beach: And honestly, none of us really cared for Chekov that much anyway.
