What is your favorite incarnation of "Klingons?"

[STEPhon IT]

As you mentioned, at least DISCO hasn't done it, for me is, allowing their audience to take it as they will. The one thing I like about PICARD is they're accepting all forms of Romulans and our heroes don't even blink an eye to question. I would get a thrill if or when TOS Klingons just walk into the room as the new Klingons plot a new plan.

 

[fireproof78]

As you mentioned, at least DISCO hasn't done it, for me is, allowing their audience to take it as they will. The one thing I like about PICARD is they're accepting all forms of Romulans and our heroes don't even blink an eye to question. I would get a thrill if or when TOS Klingons just walk into the room as the new Klingons plot a new plan.

Ah, no questions in the show.

 

[STEPhon IT]

If I missed it, please don't leave me in suspense, share it? I'll go see it, there's always something new.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, if I was writing Strange New Worlds, I would introduce Kor into the story, and have him look like Kor from TOS and surround himself with similar Klingons, who I will pepper in amongst the monsters with no explanation.

The other Klingons can come and go (although I'd probably stay clear of Koloth and Kang and maybe only reintroduce a minor figure like Kras), but Kor's House was already integral to L'rell's storyline, that it just seems logical to continue with its likely new leader.

 

[Tuskin38]

The non-canon DSC comic 'Aftermath' gave us Kor with the pointed ears of a DSC Klingon, but the flat head of a TOS Klingon, and some minor DSC details on the neck and upper chest.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Discovery Klingons are the best because they started speaking the language how Marc Okrand intended.

I think I'm in the minority, but I LOVED that the season one Disco Klingons spoke in subtitled Klingon. I can't imagine how difficult it was for the actors to act in a made-up language they didn't know. I thought they did an amazing job, and was very disappointed towards the end when Kol started to speak English and sounded just like every other over-the-top Klingon character.

 

[SalyutBuran]

Worf and Martok come from the TNG/DS9/Prime Film era…that alone makes them the best.

I mean…Martok is just the best.

I'd add Gowron, Torres, Alexander, Alexander's mother, then you have all the development of dax.

The other treks could survive without klingons 90s era trek was built on it.

 

[SalyutBuran]

I think Meyer is held up on a pedestal partly because TWOK is held up as the best Star Trek film to so many people (and it is my 2nd favorite so I'm right there too). But other people wrote that film. Bennett was the one that basically came up with the basic story idea for that. Meyer executed that well, no doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After

Or because he may have made one of the most critical films in history.

The film that in theory could of have ended the cold war.

He gets a massive pass on his lack of star trek knowledge, directly because that movie is so good/important in illustrating how things would actually work out during a nuclear holocaust.

And it's not exactly hype that he may of ended the cold war.

If you're a reagan supporter you could argue he was so great he didn't need to have his mind opened by good old fashioned tropes.

However if you don't think he was some great intellect it's quite obvious that the movie caused him to rethink things.

 

[Transaction Declined]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After

Or because he may have made one of the most critical films in history.

The film that in theory could of have ended the Cold War.

I thought Threads was better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film)

 

[Scionz]

In my head canon, the Klingon's spent the decades after the outbreak of the Augment virus trying to genetically engineer their way back to authentic Klingon and DNA. Much of it was superficial, or surgical and for looks, but largely failed. Around the 2240s they attempted to go even further and enhance their species DNA with new traits (long head, claws, purple skin) and parts the old Klingon look, and that is how we got the Discovery Klingons. The Discovery design was an exaggerated attempt at restoring Klingon traits (and then some) as an expression of Klingon cultural and racial distinctiveness.

T'Kuvma's "Remain Klingon" bit was in part literal - a societal humiliation of the Klingons by the fact that human Augment DNA had thus far proven impossible to expunge from the Klingon genome and the Discovery Klingons were the result of an aggressive attempt to undo that humiliation. And true, they certainly didn't look human anymore, but also not really Klingon. The 2250s attempt turned out to be unstable and ultimately a dead end. Do they were stuck with mostly the TOS look through the 2260s as they refined their genetic engineering technology.

A scientific breakthrough late 2260s lead to the TMP Klingons, which, with further development, fully repaired the Klingon genome, free of Human Augment influence, starting in the late 2270s. The Empire was gradually treated over the 2280s and early 2290s. By 2300, nearly no TOS Klingons remained.

The reason I like this in my head cannon is that it provides an effective augur for a century of Klingon-Federation (particularly Klingon-Human) hostility. It wasn't just a bad first contact, or some military exchange or border dispute. The Augment virus removing Klingon features was, from the Klingon's perspective, unprecedented societal assault... even a form of conquest upon them... that was a multi-generational humiliation that fathers would pass to sons. They no longer even had the "look of Kahless". Peace between the Klingons and the Federation, though activated by a changed political situation in the Quadrant, was made possible because that societal humiliation had receded as the legacy of the Augment virus was expunged form their DNA. They would "remain Klingon" after all, even though it took another 30 years of technological advancement after T'Kuvma's attempts. The 100 years of affliction by the Augment virus's genetic legacy, however, made peace impossible before hand.

In this way, I think my head canon turns the horrendous Discovery Klingon design into something that both makes sense, fits with canon and makes it occupy a meaningful place in Klingon-Federation history. Ultimately it's exaggerated look is intentional - a exaggerated attempt to "Remain Klingon" and not become indistinguishable from humans, and makes the Klingon's century of hostility towards the UFP understandable and nuanced. Look at it from the Klingon's perspective: their empire long predates the UFP, it is more powerful than the early Coalition of Planets and UFP, but then humans infect them with a virus that makes them not look Klingon anymore, and within a few decades, the UFP spreads all around them like a virus. From the Klingon perspective, that would be an attack on their very being. Which makes a genetic engineering attempt like the Discovery Klingon's logical, and T'Kuvma's "remain Klingon" rallying line, and the TOS/TMP/TNG designs all being co-hesive, and the 100 years of conflict.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

In my head canon, the Klingon's spent the decades after the outbreak of the Augment virus trying to genetically engineer their way back to authentic Klingon and DNA. Much of it was superficial, or surgical and for looks, but largely failed. Around the 2240s they attempted to go even further and enhance their species DNA with new traits (long head, claws, purple skin) and parts the old Klingon look, and that is how we got the Discovery Klingons. The Discovery design was an exaggerated attempt at restoring Klingon traits (and then some) as an expression of Klingon cultural and racial distinctiveness.

T'Kuvma's "Remain Klingon" bit was in part literal - a societal humiliation of the Klingons by the fact that human Augment DNA had thus far proven impossible to expunge from the Klingon genome and the Discovery Klingons were the result of an aggressive attempt to undo that humiliation. And true, they certainly didn't look human anymore, but also not really Klingon. The 2250s attempt turned out to be unstable and ultimately a dead end. Do they were stuck with mostly the TOS look through the 2260s as they refined their genetic engineering technology.

A scientific breakthrough late 2260s lead to the TMP Klingons, which, with further development, fully repaired the Klingon genome, free of Human Augment influence, starting in the late 2270s. The Empire was gradually treated over the 2280s and early 2290s. By 2300, nearly no TOS Klingons remained.

The reason I like this in my head cannon is that it provides an effective augur for a century of Klingon-Federation (particularly Klingon-Human) hostility. It wasn't just a bad first contact, or some military exchange or border dispute. The Augment virus removing Klingon features was, from the Klingon's perspective, unprecedented societal assault... even a form of conquest upon them... that was a multi-generational humiliation that fathers would pass to sons. They no longer even had the "look of Kahless". Peace between the Klingons and the Federation, though activated by a changed political situation in the Quadrant, was made possible because that societal humiliation had receded as the legacy of the Augment virus was expunged form their DNA. They would "remain Klingon" after all, even though it took another 30 years of technological advancement after T'Kuvma's attempts. The 100 years of affliction by the Augment virus's genetic legacy, however, made peace impossible before hand.

In this way, I think my head canon turns the horrendous Discovery Klingon design into something that both makes sense, fits with canon and makes it occupy a meaningful place in Klingon-Federation history. Ultimately it's exaggerated look is intentional - a exaggerated attempt to "Remain Klingon" and not become indistinguishable from humans, and makes the Klingon's century of hostility towards the UFP understandable and nuanced. Look at it from the Klingon's perspective: their empire long predates the UFP, it is more powerful than the early Coalition of Planets and UFP, but then humans infect them with a virus that makes them not look Klingon anymore, and within a few decades, the UFP spreads all around them like a virus. From the Klingon perspective, that would be an attack on their very being. Which makes a genetic engineering attempt like the Discovery Klingon's logical, and T'Kuvma's "remain Klingon" rallying line, and the TOS/TMP/TNG designs all being co-hesive, and the 100 years of conflict.

That is a respectable attempt at justifying it, but it was just a terrible and unnecessary complication to something that is already complicated. To keep with the canon established by ENT, they should have had a mixture of TOS era and TNG era Klingon traits.

 

[fireproof78]

In my head canon, the Klingon's spent the decades after the outbreak of the Augment virus trying to genetically engineer their way back to authentic Klingon and DNA. Much of it was superficial, or surgical and for looks, but largely failed. Around the 2240s they attempted to go even further and enhance their species DNA with new traits (long head, claws, purple skin) and parts the old Klingon look, and that is how we got the Discovery Klingons. The Discovery design was an exaggerated attempt at restoring Klingon traits (and then some) as an expression of Klingon cultural and racial distinctiveness.

T'Kuvma's "Remain Klingon" bit was in part literal - a societal humiliation of the Klingons by the fact that human Augment DNA had thus far proven impossible to expunge from the Klingon genome and the Discovery Klingons were the result of an aggressive attempt to undo that humiliation. And true, they certainly didn't look human anymore, but also not really Klingon. The 2250s attempt turned out to be unstable and ultimately a dead end. Do they were stuck with mostly the TOS look through the 2260s as they refined their genetic engineering technology.

A scientific breakthrough late 2260s lead to the TMP Klingons, which, with further development, fully repaired the Klingon genome, free of Human Augment influence, starting in the late 2270s. The Empire was gradually treated over the 2280s and early 2290s. By 2300, nearly no TOS Klingons remained.

The reason I like this in my head cannon is that it provides an effective augur for a century of Klingon-Federation (particularly Klingon-Human) hostility. It wasn't just a bad first contact, or some military exchange or border dispute. The Augment virus removing Klingon features was, from the Klingon's perspective, unprecedented societal assault... even a form of conquest upon them... that was a multi-generational humiliation that fathers would pass to sons. They no longer even had the "look of Kahless". Peace between the Klingons and the Federation, though activated by a changed political situation in the Quadrant, was made possible because that societal humiliation had receded as the legacy of the Augment virus was expunged form their DNA. They would "remain Klingon" after all, even though it took another 30 years of technological advancement after T'Kuvma's attempts. The 100 years of affliction by the Augment virus's genetic legacy, however, made peace impossible before hand.

In this way, I think my head canon turns the horrendous Discovery Klingon design into something that both makes sense, fits with canon and makes it occupy a meaningful place in Klingon-Federation history. Ultimately it's exaggerated look is intentional - a exaggerated attempt to "Remain Klingon" and not become indistinguishable from humans, and makes the Klingon's century of hostility towards the UFP understandable and nuanced. Look at it from the Klingon's perspective: their empire long predates the UFP, it is more powerful than the early Coalition of Planets and UFP, but then humans infect them with a virus that makes them not look Klingon anymore, and within a few decades, the UFP spreads all around them like a virus. From the Klingon perspective, that would be an attack on their very being. Which makes a genetic engineering attempt like the Discovery Klingon's logical, and T'Kuvma's "remain Klingon" rallying line, and the TOS/TMP/TNG designs all being co-hesive, and the 100 years of conflict.

As far as head canon goes I think this is fairly workable. Personally, I think the "remain Klingon" would be less genetic engineering (though that might be part of it) and more selective breeding. The Great Houses leadership creating a smaller breeding pool due to desirable characteristics that looked far more Klingon, resulting in some other phenotypic expression.

However, I do agree that the focus on remaining Klingon would create that antipathy towards the Federation, especially if the Augment virus could be taken as a symbol of Federation intrusion in to the Empire's affairs. It is an interesting idea to weave together all these different elements from various shows. I think the Discovery Klingons work well considering the history of Klingons across the franchise.

 

[Damian]

That is a respectable attempt at justifying it, but it was just a terrible and unnecessary complication to something that is already complicated. To keep with the canon established by ENT, they should have had a mixture of TOS era and TNG era Klingon traits.

It would have been nice if they threw in some smooth headed Klingons, even in the background, on Discovery. It would have been a nice nod to Enterprise, and the original series as well.

As far as head canon goes I think this is fairly workable. Personally, I think the "remain Klingon" would be less genetic engineering (though that might be part of it) and more selective breeding.

In the novels since Enterprise addressed the Klingon 'situation' the smooth headed Klingons were considered a lower caste in Klingon society initially. However, some smooth headed Klingons distinguished themselves and proved their worth.

I think it was the Excelsior novel, Forged In Fire, that noted the Klingons finally found a way to reverse the Augment virus (hence why Kang appeared like our favorite 80s hair band Klingon by "Flashback"). The novel didn't go into too much detail but it was inferred the 'cure' was some sort of gene therapy--which makes sense. If the cause was genetic one would think the cure would have to be genetic in nature.

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

It would have been nice if they threw in some smooth headed Klingons, even in the background, on Discovery. It would have been a nice nod to Enterprise, and the original series as well.

Maybe also provide an explanation why they were segregated on ships in that era.

In the novels since Enterprise addressed the Klingon 'situation' the smooth headed Klingons were considered a lower caste in Klingon society initially. However, some smooth headed Klingons distinguished themselves and proved their worth.

I think it was the Excelsior novel, Forged In Fire, that noted the Klingons finally found a way to reverse the Augment virus (hence why Kang appeared like our favorite 80s hair band Klingon by "Flashback"). The novel didn't go into too much detail but it was inferred the 'cure' was some sort of gene therapy--which makes sense. If the cause was genetic one would think the cure would have to be genetic in nature.

A genetic therapy definitely makes more sense. There was mention though of a surgical remedy in ENT, and we did see Sisko and O'Brian surgically turned into Klingons in DS9.

 

[Scionz]

That is a respectable attempt at justifying it, but it was just a terrible and unnecessary complication to something that is already complicated. To keep with the canon established by ENT, they should have had a mixture of TOS era and TNG era Klingon traits.

Yeah. The canon absolutely did not need yet another Klingon revamp, much less one, sandwiched between Enterprise and ToS. But here we are. It's interesting to see in Star Trek Online, all these different Klingons living together (i.e. Martok and Season 2 L'Rell). It just doesn't work.

I do think the Augment virus is the best explanation for everything we've seen though. The Klingon's societal focus on legacy and history and family and line would be entirely upended by a disease sourced from an "inferior alien ace", which not only makes it people look like the core race of new upstart expansionist power and not like Klingons, but makes fathers and sons not look like their forefathers. I can't think of a more profane assault on Klingon culture given what we know about them than that.

I just wish they'd hook it all together like this in canon. In my head, it flows very nice: the Klingons are rational, and peace with them was impossible until the virus, which was indirectly humanity's fault, was cured. It makes the over-the-top design of Discovery, the intermediate design of TMP, the TOS design, and the TNG/later movie designs all flow together of one logical story about the humbling of a great empire that took a century to recover (and did by the latter half of the 23rd century).

Oh yeah and that's another thing. The Klingon Empire of the 22nd century as we saw them could have easily nipped the UFP in the bud. If the Augment virus caused the fracturing that T'Kuvma repaired, it makes it work even better because that fracturing created a good 80 years for the Federation to establish itself without a major conflict since the Romulan War against the Coalition of Planets.

 

[Damian]

Maybe also provide an explanation why they were segregated on ships in that era.

Yeah, I think that's what the novels were going for, trying to explain why we didn't see a mix of Klingons on ships. I have noticed before Enterprise in the past some other novels have speculated about the differing appearances of Klingons as well. Some have noted possible genetics, while some have noted surgical alterations to deceive their enemies.

But in-universe, I always thought the Enterprise solution was probably the most likely. Something genetic--that's probably the only way for the changes to be permanent and to affect so many Klingons.

I know some fans groan about why it needed to be explained at all. But, despite Roddenberry saying we should think of Klingons appearing as they did later on all the time, it's something some fans have wondered about. Is there a way, in universe, to explain the differing appearances? We are a curious bunch after all .

But, at least in canon, it was never addressed until DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations." Though I don't think at the time the Berman team really expected to ever answer the question. I think the writers acknowledged it partly because of the obvious, they did appear different from the Klingons of DS9, and partly just to have another moment of humor (I do like Bashir and O'brien's reactions--"Those are Klingons?"). But I don't think they ever intended to address it further. When Enterprise started and the Klingons still appeared like a late 80's hair band that seemed to put it to rest. It was just a one time thing, otherwise Klingons in Enterprise would have appeared like their original series brethren.

But finally they decided to tackle the story once and for all. And for me personally I was glad they did. It was an open question for me that was finally put to rest in a way that seemed plausible in universe.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

You know, Michael Ansara didn't need the prosthetics. His forehead had natural ridges of disapproval.

 

[Timo]

"Klingons looking different" is the one constant in the bold new universe where neither death nor taxes have dominion any longer. And ENT sort of covers all the changes, despite seemingly only addressing the one from ENT/TNG to TOS looks and perhaps back.

That is, we learn that Klingons love to change themselves for the better, by radical medical means. In ENT, they inject stuff to themselves (or at least to suitably restrained guinea pigs); in DIS, they cut themselves to pieces inside and out to pursue an agenda (or allow their lovers to do so to them); in TOS, they experiment with fancy makeup and facial hair... And if in TNG the Klingons merely rewrite their history on the run, it should be no wonder that in DS9 even specific Klingon individuals might sport different looks at different stages of their lives - to remain Klingon is to embrace change.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos]

"Klingons looking different" is the one constant in the bold new universe where neither death nor taxes have dominion any longer. And ENT sort of covers all the changes, despite seemingly only addressing the one from ENT/TNG to TOS looks and perhaps back.

That is, we learn that Klingons love to change themselves for the better, by radical medical means. In ENT, they inject stuff to themselves (or at least to suitably restrained guinea pigs); in DIS, they cut themselves to pieces inside and out to pursue an agenda (or allow their lovers to do so to them); in TOS, they experiment with fancy makeup and facial hair... And if in TNG the Klingons merely rewrite their history on the run, it should be no wonder that in DS9 even specific Klingon individuals might sport different looks at different stages of their lives - to remain Klingon is to embrace change.

Timo Saloniemi

They were not "embracing" looking like humans in ENT. They reluctantly accepted the consequence of screwing around with their DNA.

 

[Timo]

They were embracing the idea of needling themselves in order to gain more impressive muscles and moves. Cosmetics would be cosmetic there: as per the ENT rationalization, the impulse to self-improve is what defines Klingon.

Timo Saloniemi