What is your favorite incarnation of "Klingons?"
- Thread starter Trelane_Squire_of_Gothos
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Does this mean that blood wine is pink?
And we can't have a Trek with an R rating. Everyone knows that...
Also, all the times we see red blood in the shows.
I like the Discovery Klingons
Tough one....
The Klingons from the Into Darkness really felt dangerous and ruthless to me. And they looked amazing!!
The Discovery version is truly the most diverse and alien sofar, of all the Klingons we've seen. Both in mannerisms and look. I'm a big fan, but then again, I'm a big fan of Discovery.
Ok, I can't believe I'm doing this because I try to never over-analyze the fandoms I'm into and just enjoy them, but....
I guess in my heart, the TNG/DS9 version are what I love best, but I've had the most exposure to them, grew up with them.
They are very much the exact culture from TOS and the movies for me, but Praxis changed them. They were more pragmetic about honor and their religion before that. It was a big part of their culture, but the imperialistic focus on the Klingon Galactic expansion and (probably) the propaganda that went with it, gave honor and Stovokor and such things a back seat.
After Praxis, and the decline of the Empire, Kahless's codes and rules became much more important, the only real connection to the past Klingons had. To a degree, that it became something twisted and warped. Like many dogma's, the lessons and truths Kahless put down became something to excuse behavior and even a culture. 'We do these things because honor demands it!'.
Worf is a prime example of this. Even many Klingons felt he took the codes of honor too far, was too strict. He idolized the Klingon way of life and made it bigger than even late 24th century Klingons do. Perhaps some Klingons even disliked him for it, because they saw a more flawless way of thinking in it? Overthinking this, but.... Worf took those lessons to heart, because he believed in them, even if he was to strict with them. Klingons did, because it was indoctrination and all they had.
Martok, for me, is the perfect TNG/DS9 era Klingon. Much more the pragmatic soldier the Empire knew before Praxis, and very much a devout believer of Klingon honor and the lessons of Kahless. Truly the man to lead the Empire after the Dominion War.
TrekLiterature really gave us a whole new perspective on Klingons, and went deeper into their culture, politics and way of life.
The Klingons from the Into Darkness really felt dangerous and ruthless to me. And they looked amazing!!
The Discovery version is truly the most diverse and alien sofar, of all the Klingons we've seen. Both in mannerisms and look. I'm a big fan, but then again, I'm a big fan of Discovery.
Ok, I can't believe I'm doing this because I try to never over-analyze the fandoms I'm into and just enjoy them, but....
I guess in my heart, the TNG/DS9 version are what I love best, but I've had the most exposure to them, grew up with them.
They are very much the exact culture from TOS and the movies for me, but Praxis changed them. They were more pragmetic about honor and their religion before that. It was a big part of their culture, but the imperialistic focus on the Klingon Galactic expansion and (probably) the propaganda that went with it, gave honor and Stovokor and such things a back seat.
After Praxis, and the decline of the Empire, Kahless's codes and rules became much more important, the only real connection to the past Klingons had. To a degree, that it became something twisted and warped. Like many dogma's, the lessons and truths Kahless put down became something to excuse behavior and even a culture. 'We do these things because honor demands it!'.
Worf is a prime example of this. Even many Klingons felt he took the codes of honor too far, was too strict. He idolized the Klingon way of life and made it bigger than even late 24th century Klingons do. Perhaps some Klingons even disliked him for it, because they saw a more flawless way of thinking in it? Overthinking this, but.... Worf took those lessons to heart, because he believed in them, even if he was to strict with them. Klingons did, because it was indoctrination and all they had.
Martok, for me, is the perfect TNG/DS9 era Klingon. Much more the pragmatic soldier the Empire knew before Praxis, and very much a devout believer of Klingon honor and the lessons of Kahless. Truly the man to lead the Empire after the Dominion War.
TrekLiterature really gave us a whole new perspective on Klingons, and went deeper into their culture, politics and way of life.
TOS, then TNG/DS9/VOY era.
Yes, the makeup issue in TOS is a bit controversial for some. Being a PoC, even now, I don't get why having a "White" actor using makeup to look "exotic" as a big deal. It's called "acting". My ONLY concern would be whether or not a PoC could play certain roles. Can you imagine Sydney Poiter or Harry Belafonte or any number of actors of "color" playing Klingon characters? Not sure, since there were actors of "color" guest starred on TOS, like William Marshall, Booker Bradshaw, Phil Morris and others. But, I digress...
Anyway, I chose TOS and "the next generation" of Klingons because those Klingons were more fleshed out. The movie Klingons didn't really get fleshed out until, IMO, the sixth film, the Undiscovered Country. That's when, IMO, their popularity really took off.
BTW, as a thought experiment, could a "Black" actor play a convincing "White" actor? The closest may be Eddie Murphy, when he played one of the barber patrons from the COMING TO AMERICA films. I guess, these days, we'll never know...
Yes, the makeup issue in TOS is a bit controversial for some. Being a PoC, even now, I don't get why having a "White" actor using makeup to look "exotic" as a big deal. It's called "acting". My ONLY concern would be whether or not a PoC could play certain roles. Can you imagine Sydney Poiter or Harry Belafonte or any number of actors of "color" playing Klingon characters? Not sure, since there were actors of "color" guest starred on TOS, like William Marshall, Booker Bradshaw, Phil Morris and others. But, I digress...
Anyway, I chose TOS and "the next generation" of Klingons because those Klingons were more fleshed out. The movie Klingons didn't really get fleshed out until, IMO, the sixth film, the Undiscovered Country. That's when, IMO, their popularity really took off.
BTW, as a thought experiment, could a "Black" actor play a convincing "White" actor? The closest may be Eddie Murphy, when he played one of the barber patrons from the COMING TO AMERICA films. I guess, these days, we'll never know...
I think the issue stems from taking the jobs of another race, rather than performance.
...Which in scifi counts for nothing much, as the actor for a Klingon or a Wookiee could be blue-skinned for all the audience cares.
Scifi spearheads technologies that would soon allow for anybody to portray any role, much like Andy Serkis already does. Bickering about race and employment should then become a totally separate thing, to be sorted out of there is a need.
Timo Saloniemi
Scifi spearheads technologies that would soon allow for anybody to portray any role, much like Andy Serkis already does. Bickering about race and employment should then become a totally separate thing, to be sorted out of there is a need.
Timo Saloniemi
Eddie Murphy did that way before Coming to America.
Having said that, let’s be careful about straying too far from the topic. Race and entertainment can be explored in several other forums, if you so wish.
I love how elder Arne Darvin channels Woody Allen as he reveals his plan to kill Kirk. Yup, the man is a Klingon. Go figure!
I forgot about this bit! So funny! Given that I was 16 when I saw this, I think it may have effected me.
I love the TOS Klingons, Koloth, Kang, Mara, Kor.
There is a Myriad Universes story which does some very interesting things with Darvin. It's called "Honor in the Night".
It takes place in a timeline where Darvin's mission to poison the grain was successful. He becomes so sick and ashamed at what he's done that he dedicates his life to restoring his honor and atoning for his crimes. He kills his Imperial Intelligence handler, assumes his identity, and becomes an influential Klilngon governor. (Of Bajor, interestingly enough...)
This kind of reminds me. I got a fan fiction thing somewhere in the archive were I rewrote that song and called it Romulan Man.
I've read this theory from articles and those retcon Star Trek books and of course Memory Alpha, but director and writer Nicholas Meyer has never corroborated this theory. In his audio commentaries for Star Trek VI, and his descriptive book titled, "The View From the Bridge", he states on page 217, paragraph 1:
"There was a debate over the color of blood, which I wanted to be different than human blood. I wound up choosing a pink shade that seemed suitably weird, only to regret my choice down the road when I realized it reminded me of Pepto-Bismol."
No bullshit MPAA stuff, no ratings issues like in The Temple OF Doom, nada. Especially NC-17 is a rating prone for sexual content than blood, and R ratings are geared with a combination of strong language, sexuality, and violence. Star Trek VI was not even close to an R rating.
Yeah I never bought that. I watch a lot of horror films too and plenty of those got PG-13 ratings, even in 1991, and were more graphic than TUC. I doubt red blood would have caused an R rating
Pink blood didn't bother me that much. They are aliens so it should be different. And it's unexpected. Pink is not generally considered an aggressive color so it contrasts nicely I thought.
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