What is up with 'The Omega Glory'?

[Bones_McCoy21]

I watched the episode this morning and I found it hard to believe that another civilization with a John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, And an exact copy of the Constitusion. I found it WAY too hard to believe, and when in in 1776 to 18 whatever did we fight communsits. Finally what arre the odds that they have the same pledge of alligance and flag with 50 stars? All in all a Very hard to believe episode

 

[scotpens]

I watched the episode this morning and I found it hard to believe that another civilization with a John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, And an exact copy of the Constitution. I found it WAY too hard to believe . . .

So do a lot of us Trekkies, including diehard TOS fans.

. . . and when in in 1776 to 18 whatever did we fight communists.

It’s supposed to be a parallel Earth. For the Yangs, the Constitution is an ancient, revered document, though the actual meaning of its words has been forgotten. Presumably it dates from centuries before the war between the Yangs and Kohms.

But yes, the conclusion of the episode is pretty damn silly.

“The Omega Glory” was one of three scripts Gene Roddenberry submitted to NBC when they requested a second pilot (the other two were “Where No Man Has Gone Before” and “Mudd’s Women”). I’m sure he felt the patriotic element would appeal to network executives who weren’t sure whether a science fiction series could attract a mass audience.

 

[Dukhat]

I watched the episode this morning and I found it hard to believe that another civilization with a John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, And an exact copy of the Constitusion. I found it WAY too hard to believe, and when in in 1776 to 18 whatever did we fight communsits. Finally what arre the odds that they have the same pledge of alligance and flag with 50 stars? All in all a Very hard to believe episode

Well, it's no more harder to believe than a planet that had a Roman Empire that never fell ("Bread and Circuses"), or a planet with the exact same continents as Earth ("Miri"). The problem is that in BaC, Kirk just shrugs off the similarities as an example of "Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planet Development" (a bullshit plot device in and of itself), but is totally amazed about how both Omega IV and Miri's planet are so similar to Earth.

Really, these stories would have worked far better as alternate universe Earth stories rather than similar planets that actually existed in our own universe, for exactly the reasons you mention.

 

[Wingsley]

As farcical as the whole flag/constitution/"I pleb nista" schtick was, the real tragedy of the episode was that they brought back a first-rate character actor like Morgan Woodward, made him an experienced starship captain, and then made him corrupt to the point where Kirk had to bring him down. That was just plain sad.

If they were going to bring Woodward back as a starship skipper, they should've given him a story where Kirk and Tracey were on the same side, both of their ships facing a formidable danger together, and both captains working together to do the right thing. Instead it literally became a macho knife fight.

The only good thing about the ep was that Spock got to "seduce" Tarzan's Jane into activating that communicator. Oh, that and the Exeter was still intact so we could enjoy "Starship Exeter" over thirty years later.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Sometimes you just have to let the art flow over you." Nick, the Big Chill.

 

[7thsealord]

As farcical as the whole flag/constitution/"I pleb nista" schtick was, the real tragedy of the episode was that they brought back a first-rate character actor like Morgan Woodward, made him an experienced starship captain, and then made him corrupt to the point where Kirk had to bring him down. That was just plain sad.

If they were going to bring Woodward back as a starship skipper, they should've given him a story where Kirk and Tracey were on the same side, both of their ships facing a formidable danger together, and both captains working together to do the right thing. Instead it literally became a macho knife fight.

As was covered (by Captain Tracy, no less ) on another thread, the whole flag-waving thing could have been easily circumvented - and made for a much MUCH better episode.

Suppose that the planet had once been home to a Human (or near-Human) pre-warp civilization that had blasted and germed itself back to feudalism or lower in a massive war. No Yangs or Kohms, no artifacts from the USA, nothing like that - just the remnants of the two sides still warring.

A few centuries down the line, enter the USS Exeter. Whilst Captain Tracy is on the surface hobnobbing with the locals, a particularly nasty germ is inadvertently carried back to the ship and wipes out the entire crew.

Captain Tracy is resigned to his own death, until he discovers he has been miraculously saved from that and may now even be immortal. Add to that the enormous feelings of grief and guilt he feels about the loss of his entire crew. Add to that several weeks / months of isolation from Star Fleet. Add to THAT, the local situation - the friendly "civilized" locals under constant and relentless attack from much more numerous "barbarians".

Under those circumstances, it is small wonder that Tracy eventually cracks, throws the Prime Directive completely out the window and starts actively interfering. He uses his Phaser and any other equipment he might have had to thoroughly smash a number of barbarian attacks.

Then along comes Kirk and Co.. Kirk may sympathize with Tracy and all that he has been through ("There, but for the Grace of God, go I." etc.), but he has to stop this interference.

Overall, very much like the original episode, just without any flag-waving and with more emphasis on Captain Tracy's moral / ethical slide. Could have been a quite powerful pro-Prime Directive styled episode.

 

[BillJ]

One of Star Trek's finest episodes with a chilling performance by Morgan Woodward.

"...we killed thousands and they still came!"


I have no problem with an ancient alien race seeding several like planets that they constructed to watch the multiple paths humanity could take given the right circumstances.

It is science-fiction after all, not science-fact.

 

[Timo]

Taking the setting as is, it wouldn't be particularly implausible to just assume that a man from Earth came to this world several thousands of years ago, impressed the hell out of the natives with his superior command of technology, and left a mark in the world's history bigger than that of Jesus Christ around here.

We just have to assume that said man was something of a fanatic for late 20th century United States, and that implies he had access to a time machine. And those should indeed start popping up on Earth in the late 20th century, according to several subsequent Star Trek stories. (Of course, he could also be a simple starfarer from the late Iron Age, because Earthlings from those days could easily have gotten a lift from a passing alien ship - but then he wouldn't know squat about late 20th century United States. So a time machine would be involved at some stage anyway.)

We have seen the same thing happen elsewhere in Trek, even though only starships were involved, not time machines. John Gill did it with the Nazi mythos, and would obviously have left an equally lasting mark in the Ekosian society. That is, he probably did leave the mark, although at the end of that episode it remains unclear whether the Ekosians will stay devoted to their local brand of Nazism, modify it somewhat, or decide to drop it altogether. Come back in a couple of generations and you may still well see the swastikas and uniforms, hear the classic quotes, and witness the ceremonial posturing.

It's just that generations on Omega IV are a tad longer than on Ekos...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

I think you could just as easily reverse the scenario above. That Omega IV developed the Constitution and flag first and it was transplanted to Earth by one of their starfarers.

Or...

Perhaps the Omegans had developed similarly to humans and had their devastating wars that blew them back to the stone age. Then, after Earth develops warp flight, one of our own starfarers or a group of them headed to the stars with artifacts of the U.S. government and crash landed on Omega IV. Teaching the Omegans of their ways and the values of the land they came from, which the Omegans recognized as similar to the ways they use to cherish and embraced them as their own.

 

[Timo]

That Omega IV developed the Constitution and flag first and it was transplanted to Earth by one of their starfarers.

That's a bit more complex, though.

If the Constitution came from Earth and went to Omega, then we don't have to assume that people on Omega would have had names like Jefferson or William to start with, mysteriously similar to what Earth would have to start with. We can simply assume that after our time traveler made the 20th century US popular on Omega, the old names were all forgotten and everybody began using US names familiar from the time-transported documents. And this would have to survive for just a couple of generations.

If the Constitution came from Omega to Earth, though, it would have to survive through hundreds of generations - and in secret, so that it would only surface thousands of years later, and not be recognized for an alien thing. But the names on it would somehow have been leaked earlier on, and would have become popular in the cultures that would lead into the US, and all our current understanding on the etymology of those names would be false.

Perhaps the Omegans had developed similarly to humans and had their devastating wars that blew them back to the stone age. Then, after Earth develops warp flight, one of our own starfarers or a group of them headed to the stars with artifacts of the U.S. government and crash landed on Omega IV. Teaching the Omegans of their ways and the values of the land they came from, which the Omegans recognized as similar to the ways they use to cherish and embraced them as their own.

This would cover one base my time traveler theory does not cover. Namely, how can the flag, the documents and the possible other paraphernalia survive in such excellent condition across the thousands of years of conflict on primitive Omega IV? Even if they were sacred relics that only got taken out to celebrate the greatest of victories, they'd still be in tatters. And the war-ravaged civilizations of the planet couldn't produce convincing copies to replace the originals (at least not in the case of the documents, even if the art of flag-making remained on high level).

We could argue that the US influence was recent through and through, and that the original Omegans from those thousands of years ago had not believed in the sacred words at all - it could all be recent propaganda. But that is made more difficult by the fact that the Omegans are so long-lived: some people would still remember ye olden days vividly, and the brainwashing feat would have to be all the more fantastic.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

We could argue that the US influence was recent through and through, and that the original Omegans from those thousands of years ago had not believed in the sacred words at all - it could all be recent propaganda. But that is made more difficult by the fact that the Omegans are so long-lived: some people would still remember ye olden days vividly, and the brainwashing feat would have to be all the more fantastic.

One, we only see a single village out of the entire planet. So we really don't know how wide spread the knowledge of the U.S. relics would be. Or if they had any impact at all beyond a very small region.

Two:

Survival of the fittest, because their ancestors who survived had to have a superior resistance. Then they built up these powerful protective antibodies in the blood during the wars. Now, if you want to destroy a civilisation or a whole world, your descendants might develop a longer life, but I hardly think it's worth it.

There's no way the Omegans went from living a normal life span to thousands of years in a single generation. Most have probably been taught to hate those with a different colored skin and nothing more. Essentially, they hate each other simply because they have hated each other for as long as most anyone on their world can remember.

 

[Timo]

we only see a single village out of the entire planet.

And a randomly selected one at that. But significantly, it appears to be the most important village on the planet.

It is described as the absolute last refuge of the Kohms, apparently because of the protection provided by Tracey. Yangs concentrate major forces against them, including their high chief Cloud William. And mere moments after the final victory, the holiest of the sacred relics are ready to be presented in that village.

It may be that US worship is limited to the war zone. It does seem to be practiced at a randomly selected location, though, which would speak against it being local.

There's no way the Omegans went from living a normal life span to thousands of years in a single generation.

Yup, sounds implausible. But McCoy would seem to be arguing that (some) Omegans were able to quickly develop antibodies to the poisons of the war because they came from a long-living and hardy species. This would merely then get reflected back as a further increased lifespan, possibly, theoretically, not very plausibly - which is why McCoy essentially ridicules the idea.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

It is described as the absolute last refuge of the Kohms, apparently because of the protection provided by Tracey. Yangs concentrate major forces against them, including their high chief Cloud William. And mere moments after the final victory, the holiest of the sacred relics are ready to be presented in that village.

But how accurate can that information possibly be in a world with no communication infrastructure? The Yangs could control half a continent on the other side of a mountain for all Cloud William would know...

Yup, sounds implausible. But McCoy would seem to be arguing that (some) Omegans were able to quickly develop antibodies to the poisons of the war because they came from a long-living and hardy species. This would merely then get reflected back as a further increased lifespan, possibly, theoretically, not very plausibly - which is why McCoy essentially ridicules the idea.

McCoy says those with a "superior resistance" survived the initial onslaught. Nothing about them being longer lived prior to the war.

 

[Timo]

But how accurate can that information possibly be in a world with no communication infrastructure? The Yangs could control half a continent on the other side of a mountain for all Cloud William would know...

Yet the presence of the sacred relics suggests working transportation. That is, the things got to the victory site quickly from some more central location, in which case news should travel quickly as well. "Quickly" being anything from months in Cloud William's supply train as he wandered on the battlefields seeking for the final victory, to hours on horseback or somesuch after Cloud William had achieved said victory and sent a message to the keep where the relics resided.

The struggle against the Kohms seems to be a big thing for the Yang culture. Are we to suppose that this, too, is actually a local phenomenon, and that elsewhere in the planet there are peoples who have never heard of the Kohms or the Yangs, their blood feud, or the obsession of latter with the 20th century US, all of which do seem to be closely interrelated as per the relics-were-there argument? That sounds somewhat implausible, as Tracey was told of a global struggle back when his ship's sensors were still available to support or oppose the story.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

The whole episode is a shit sandwich.

 

[BillJ]

Yet the presence of the sacred relics suggests working transportation. That is, the things got to the victory site quickly from some more central location, in which case news should travel quickly as well. "Quickly" being anything from months in Cloud William's supply train as he wandered on the battlefields seeking for the final victory, to hours on horseback or somesuch after Cloud William had achieved said victory and sent a message to the keep where the relics resided.

You're really reaching here. They could've kept the relics close at hand, considering they come off as nomads in the episode.

The struggle against the Kohms seems to be a big thing for the Yang culture. Are we to suppose that this, too, is actually a local phenomenon, and that elsewhere in the planet there are peoples who have never heard of the Kohms or the Yangs, their blood feud, or the obsession of latter with the 20th century US, all of which do seem to be closely interrelated as per the relics-were-there argument? That sounds somewhat implausible, as Tracey was told of a global struggle back when his ship's sensors were still available to support or oppose the story.

The struggle against the Kohms seemed to be a big thing for these Yangs. Do you really believe that the Yangs now control the entire planet? That there are no Kohms fighting or holding territory anywhere? That's quite a stretch. Especially considering the Yangs are doing it with nothing more than spears. It would also make Cloud William the unquestioned ruler of Omega IV, since he holds the relics... which I find laughable.

You're also working under the assumption that the Yangs were broadcasting that they had these sacred items to anyone that would listen. The knowledge of them were probably fairly limited as:

No! No! Only the eyes of a chief may see the Ee'd Plebnista.

And even if the existence of the relics was widely known, I seriously doubt their origin was.

All in all, your reasoning falls into the age old Star Trek trap of: because we see a small slice of a world, it must be that way on every square inch of said world.

 

[BillJ]

The whole episode is a shit sandwich.

It's in my personal Top 5.

 

[spockrocks]

The writers must have taken the day off on this one.

 

[Maurice]

The original script was likely done to illustrate the "similar worlds" concept Roddenberry used to pitch the series, much as I suspect "Mudd's Women" was to illustrate the "Wagon Train to the Stars" idea (guest stars on the ship).

The big problem really is the ending. They just went too literal. If the Yangs had walked in with a flag that wasn't an American one, and if their holy words were something LIKE the Constitution rather than literally that, then Kirk could have seen them as kindred rather than an impossibly unlikely copy.

 

[Wingsley]

The whole episode is a shit sandwich.

Easy way out! Easy way out!

I do agree that if you wanted to reform/redo "The Omega Glory", you obviously have to get rid of all the American trappings up front, but you also have to get rid of the whole Captain-Tracey-is-a-fugitive thing. I saw that as being as much of a cop-out as using the flag, pledge and Constitution.

I just do not buy that (1: it is that easy to victimize an entire starship crew... their society can exceed the speed of light, travel to other worlds, and explore them. But someone brings a bug aboard and they all die that easily? (2: Tracey is trapped on the surface with no way to communicate with the Federation. He's got a communicator, doesn't he? He's the captain of a starship, and his crew is in trouble. The Federation is advanced enough to have voice control over their machines. I find it very hard to accept that he couldn't at least call for help. (3: Tracey goes from being the most experienced captain in Starfleet, highly regarded, to being a criminal who abandons everything he believes in.

I'd say the whole story would have to be completely re-written. Maybe the Exeter's crew is stricken and delirious, but not all dead. Maybe Tracey is a carrier, not stricken. Kirk finds the once-proud captain barely keeping it together, and now Kirk must assume command from someone who was once his role model. They elect to go down to the planet to recover whatever pathogen caused the plague before it's too late for the Exeter. Perhaps, as on Neural, they stumble into the fight between the local tribes and the two captains argue over how to survive and carry out their mission without affecting the locals. This kind of rivalry would not involve "good" Kirk overcoming "corrupt" Tracey, but instead Kirk seeking a path involving non-interference while a more desperate Tracey saying "screw the regs, my people are dying!" In their argument, they realize the parallels with Earth history, and the biological warfare used on Earth and other worlds. Kirk and Tracey decide to confront the locals without phasers, and get them to read their revered texts, put them back on their original course of development. (Maybe they could even translate "I pleb nista" as "We the People", without using an exact copy of the Constitution.)

This would allow the story to be more credible, still fit on 60's TV, avoid all the unnecessary phaser FX, avoid Tracey being another madman/crook, and in the end Tracey would still be around to team up with Kirk in future adventures. (Oh, and that dreadful "effect" of showing uniforms all over the place with piles of white crystals wouldn't be necessary. Maybe McCoy finds only a couple of the Exeter crew in that state.)