What is the best system to safely store cargo

[Kamen Rider Blade]

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It seems like Cargo Containers are never secured in the Cargo Bays for some reason.

What is the best and simplest methods to store cargo on StarFleet Vessel or Facility when you know that everytime the Vessel/Facility gets jostled due to ___ reason, that the Cargo Containers go flying about and potentially injuring somebody or breaking something important.

Or something happens inside the cargo bay to knock down the stacked containers.

IMO, the cargo needs to be strapped down securely & easily to prevent them from moving about while still being easy and quick to access whatever is in the contents of said cargo container.

Hover Lifts or traditional manual lifts need to work with said Containers since we don't know if there is a situation where the radiation will interfere with the Hover Lifts / Tractor Beams.

 

[Dumbbell]

For actual, general cargo: A dedicated cargo bay with standard cargo containers.

The cargo bay will always be full in the sense that all containers will be present. If not, then bracers should be used to secure the fewer containers. The bay does not require life support or gravity. It could have an emergency release of bracers and container jetison function.

The shipping/receiving station would have full sensor and specialized transporter access to all containers, full manifest, as well as any redundant backup vehicles. Any container could be transported to any of the shipping/receiving decks, opened, unpacked, packed, whatever, then transported back to its location.

The transporter is a specialized cargo transporter, not meant for people, that maintains the evcuated location to reserve it for when the container is transported back to location. This could be done via expanded field generation or by using an actual othe container.

 

[Timo]

...I gather the one thing standing in the way of this sensible arrangement is that all the cargo we see is actually Ship's Stores, stuff the heroes may need while underway. It's packed in man-sized, manhandleable containers because it needs to go places, through corridors, lifts and transporter platforms scaled for men. The manhandling begins at some point, and our heroes have simply decided that this point is the stores room itself, rather than, say, a transporter terminal just outside the stores that would safely and conveniently extract those blue barrels or hexagon crates or green compostors one at a time from a secure non-shirtsleeves environment.

Why such a stupid decision? Well, it does eliminate that transporter-used-in-lieu-of-forklift, allowing yellowshirts to grab those barrels by hand even when all power is down. Might come in handy when life support, reliant on that power, is off and the crates and barrels contain the emergency oxygen tablets and CO2 scrubber foam and exothermic powder and luminescent liquid.

But since there is no transporter-forklift, or a forklift of any other sort, in evidence anywhere, how can anybody access those upper shelves? I gather the round transporter pads occasionally seen on the floors of those bays are actually always there at every facility and do the job of the forklift, yet the manhandling alternative is retained for the lower shelves. And so a Worf or two gets paralyzed every now and then, but whole shipfuls don't suffocate in emergencies.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And so a Worf or two gets paralyzed every now and then, but whole shipfuls don't suffocate in emergencies.

OSHA must really love you =D

 

[Unicron]

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It seems like Cargo Containers are never secured in the Cargo Bays for some reason.

What is the best and simplest methods to store cargo on StarFleet Vessel or Facility when you know that everytime the Vessel/Facility gets jostled due to ___ reason, that the Cargo Containers go flying about and potentially injuring somebody or breaking something important.

Or something happens inside the cargo bay to knock down the stacked containers.

IMO, the cargo needs to be strapped down securely & easily to prevent them from moving about while still being easy and quick to access whatever is in the contents of said cargo container.

Hover Lifts or traditional manual lifts need to work with said Containers since we don't know if there is a situation where the radiation will interfere with the Hover Lifts / Tractor Beams.

Gotta keep those ship jolts dramatic. You're completely right, even with advanced Treknology it seems like the cargo containers were typically unsecured for no logical reason (aside from drama). Of course, if the dialogue in "The Naked Now" is taken at face value, Starfleet has been using tractor beams for years but only in one direction, with no "reverse" option even though it would make total sense to have it. Drunk!Wesley managed to accomplish that even though it would supposedly take "weeks" of adding new circuits.

 

[Dumbbell]

I gather the one thing standing in the way of this sensible arrangement is that all the cargo we see is actually Ship's Stores, stuff the heroes may need while underway. It's packed in man-sized, manhandleable containers because it needs to go places, through corridors, lifts and transporter platforms scaled for men.

(Too true.)

But that stuff would be called luggage, not cargo, even if the crew calls it cargo and the door is labeled “Cargo Bay.”

I should hope that most Federation capital ships that aspire to have tactical importance don’t actually transport a substantial amount of actual cargo. What they take along with them for the trip would be called luggage by transport ship standards.

We rarely see actual cargo because people don't go there. We see the luggage compartment when there are emergencies and someone forgot their ultrasonic toothbrush. There would be no need for life support in an actual cargo bay. Of course, there would be a few exceptions, such as the beautiful refit Enterprise in the motion picture and her wonderful cargo bay. Ahhh….

(Am I allowed to post someone else's picture?)

TMP Cargo Bay

Not exactly how I would design it. It is far too specialized and integrated, but is amazing nonetheless.

 

[Coops]

I wonder what cargo would really be required after the advent of replicators? Solid fuel to power the replicators? Sounds dangerous to have that just lying around. Personal possessions? Possibly. But surely most other stuff could be produced as required? I envisage huge replicator-cruisers sent to disaster areas or war zones to offer aid and assistance. What cargo couldn't be produced artificially?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I wonder what cargo would really be required after the advent of replicators? Solid fuel to power the replicators? Sounds dangerous to have that just lying around. Personal possessions? Possibly. But surely most other stuff could be produced as required? I envisage huge replicator-cruisers sent to disaster areas or war zones to offer aid and assistance. What cargo couldn't be produced artificially?

All the parts to repair the Ship and all it's System in case the power goes down, or Replicators are broken, or ___ system is broken, etc.

Sometimes you need parts at hand when your vessel has no power to run the Replicators.

It's a little too late to ask for the Replicator to have power when ship wide power is down.

And how many times have we seen a ship in Star Trek lose power for ___ reason? Too many IMO.

It's not like replicators don't consume a significant and noticeable chunk of power.

The only reason they're better than what StarFleet had pre-replicators is because the variety it offers and not having to head home to port to stock every little thing, when you can store the raw matter in the bulk matter storage bins and pull material as needed to make whatever the crew wants.

Industrial Replicators were a tool that the UFP used to lend out or give to other species in trouble when they needed to rebuild after a disaster/crisis.

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

Get that penguin from Madagascar, the one who can swallow and regurgitate anything at will. Infinite and secure cargo storage, no problem.

 

[Dumbbell]

I wonder what cargo would really be required after the advent of replicators?

It's not like replicators don't consume a significant and noticeable chunk of power.

One of the biggest Star Trek fantasies is the idea of virtually limitless power for free.

Antimatter has become the new dilithium crystal, the mysterious but somewhat relatable substance needed to give us all the power we need.

When I first heard about dilithium crystals, I wondered where they could be found. Obviously, only on another planet somewhere out in space. Now, I wonder where they get all that antimatter from.

Antimatter is the key to generating all that power, but what energy does it cost to make all that antimatter? Unless they just collect empty bottles and refill them at the nearest special anomaly.

Anyway, I digress.

I suppose storing items electronically and then replicating them later would change the type of cargo but not eliminate it. Now, instead of multipurpose container storage, you need data storage, bulk matter storage of various types of matter, and increased power/battery storage. You would still need storage, just a more specialized type of storage.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Get that penguin from Madagascar, the one who can swallow and regurgitate anything at will. Infinite and secure cargo storage, no problem.

They're on the endangered species list and are a rare breed from a parrallel universe.

=D

One of the biggest Star Trek fantasies is the idea of virtually limitless power for free.

Antimatter has become the new dilithium crystal, the mysterious but somewhat relatable substance needed to give us all the power we need.

We can manufacture Anti-matter today, right now, it just costs a metric butt ton of energy.

10 things you might not know about antimatter
A gram of antimatter could produce an explosion the size of a nuclear bomb. However, humans have produced only a minuscule amount of antimatter.

All of the antiprotons created at Fermilab’s Tevatron particle accelerator add up to only 15 nanograms. Those made at CERN amount to about 1 nanogram. At DESY in Germany, approximately 2 nanograms of positrons have been produced to date.


If all the antimatter ever made by humans were annihilated at once, the energy produced wouldn’t even be enough to boil a cup of tea.


The problem lies in the efficiency and cost of antimatter production and storage. Making 1 gram of antimatter would require approximately 25 million billion kilowatt-hours of energy and cost over a million billion dollars.

Since StarFleet M/A-M reactors power the Warp Cores, they run on Anti-Deuterium.
Regular Deuterium is easy enough to process from water planet-side.

Anti-Deuterium takes ALOT of energy to manufacture, so the only easy way I can see how the UFP manufactures Anti-Deuterium in mass is to take the required base ingredients, and have orbital facilities around the sun use Solar Power to kick start the Fusion Reactors, which are then used to make Anti-Deuterium on a mass production scale.

A scale similar to how we pump petroleum from the ground.

Every Star System that the UFP is a part of will be required to have Anti-Deuterium manufacturing facilities on a very large scale to power Stellar Traffic and have distribution networks locally to fuel all StarShips and FTL vessels that use M/A-M reactors.

When I first heard about dilithium crystals, I wondered where they could be found. Obviously, only on another planet somewhere out in space. Now, I wonder where they get all that antimatter from.

Dilithium Crystals are harvested from mines, but I'm thinking that they'll eventually mass produce Synthetic Dilithium Crystals. Similar to how we can mass produce Artificial Diamonds, the UFP should eventually be able to mass produce and create Synthetic Dilithium Crystals.

Antimatter is the key to generating all that power, but what energy does it cost to make all that antimatter? Unless they just collect empty bottles and refill them at the nearest special anomaly.

See above.

I suppose storing items electronically and then replicating them later would change the type of cargo but not eliminate it. Now, instead of multipurpose container storage, you need data storage, bulk matter storage of various types of matter, and increased power/battery storage. You would still need storage, just a more specialized type of storage.

You'll also need spare parts storage for just about any part of the vessel incase you need to repair your vessel and you don't have power or are running on batteries. You'll also need redundancies in terms of multiple storage location incase some of the cargo bays gets blown up, stolen from, etc.

 

[Unicron]

(Am I allowed to post someone else's picture?)

You can't directly hot link images to sites you don't actually own or administer. I changed your image to a link instead, and you can use a free image host to upload and post it that way.

 

[publiusr]

Now replicators need to have to be in close proximity to what they are assembling. Transporters really need to go pad-to-pad.

But Trek has pad-to-surface.

By Enterprise-J…you will no longer need cargo except for the rarest elements that don’t travel well.

You beam not cargo, but an entire base intact out of local matter.

Replicator-to-surface.

 

[Dumbbell]

There was a schematic drawing of a transport type starship in the old Star Fleet Technical Manual, TOS era.

The transport or tug could haul a couple pods that specialized in various cargo containment. I think there was one for finished goods, one for refrigerated goods, dry bulk, and passengers.

 

[Timo]

In light of what we see on screen, that sort of cargo hauling seems not to happen much.

Every freighter design we see has its very own shape of container, meaning there can be no real container logistics at work: the ports would only be swamped by the different types. Instead, it seems that all cargo is General Goods, moving in a pre-WWII fashion in holds, of which some just happen to be containerlike, perhaps for ease of (pre-)loading but not for the same sort of ease of stowage and transport-beyond-port that today's sea/road/rail containers are built for.

The SFTM example might be considered a Starfleet system, not used outside the military context. And the tug there a dedicated warship, with extra capabilities that a civilian tug would do without, but also with containers nobody else uses.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dumbbell]

I think Picard said, “We’ve overcome hunger and greed, and we’re no longer interested in the accumulation of things.”

He might have been bluffing, but if it were true, then the need for safely transporting cargo might be tremendously reduced or even non-existant, other than emergencies. Rather than transporting cargo to feed selfish societies, just the exchange of technological ideas might be enough to for any demand to eventually be met.

Lao Tzu said, that if you give a man a fish, you may feed him for a day; teach him how to fish, you may feed him for a lifetime. So, as long as there are fish...

 

[Timo]

One would think most settlements would be on the abundant Class M worlds, which supposedly differ very little from Southern California and thus shouldn't import anything much. Yet TOS already tells us that imports may be vital and their lack fatal: all sorts of global plagues rage (which should be no wonder, with star travel bringing incompatible biospheres together - two South Cals can easily be mortal enemies in terms of pathogens), calling for constant medical transport, and the artificial bits like power systems for some reason seem to rely on materials the Federation has to secure from space injuns, strip-mine and transport.

Replicators may have changed some of that for the TNG era, so that "The Most Toys" is a rare callback to TOS space vaccine delivery plots, an almost extinct type of adventure. Yet nothing really changes as regards freighters between TOS and TNG: in both, they are tiny skiffs, incapable of hauling much bulk. Is this because the economies of warp drive favor small loads delivered extremely fast but also often? Or because bulk doesn't need to be hauled any longer?

Even in ENT, where Boomer ships had vast holds, general goods were typically seen carried within. Of course, those holds with ore or seeds or liquoir in them would not have been seen from the inside... Perhaps the tradition of stowing the general goods crates and barrels haphazardly on makeshift shelves has its roots on the Boomer practice of converting bulk holds to general use that way?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[publiusr]

There was a schematic drawing of a transport type starship in the old Star Fleet Technical Manual, TOS era.

The transport or tug could haul a couple pods that specialized in various cargo containment. I think there was one for finished goods, one for refrigerated goods, dry bulk, and passengers.

Just because you see them doesn't mean they are not there. We do see the tugs around the PICARD era. Only then does the set-up need more ships.

Now I think even sub-light containers make sense.

You have your logistics guys figure out what each colony needs on a monthly/yearly basis. A colony 10 light years away from X, say. Tow 20 containers full--but not directly....space them out.

They go half light speed. This means a colony gets a shipment every six months...though it takes each container 20 years to make the voyage. After awhile, two colonies get steady shipments at what seems FTL speeds. The tug doesn't warp any pod directly anywhere---except for non-replicatable fare, meds, specialty items....etc.

You set up this network everywhere....and the tugs are just for emergency use.

Even if a galaxy wide warp dampening field took effect...or a Q banned warp-drive....you still get steady shipments. The best way to store cargo? In transit as a true wagon train to the stars.....20 mule team borax style.

Logistics.