What is it with Michael Bay and racial stereotypes?

[Hound of UIster]

He is described as sallow skinned in Return of the King.

 

[Thestral]

Hmm, interesting. Did some looking and

Tolkien describes Gollum as either dark, bone-white or sallow (pale yellow); at one point the Men of Ithilien mistake his silhouette (seen from a distance) for a tailless black squirrel. In a manuscript written to guide illustrators to the appearance of his characters, Tolkien explained this by saying that Gollum had pale skin, but wore dark clothes and was often seen in poor light.[7]

from here. And really, that makes the most sense for someone that had been living underground for hundreds of years

 

[The Castellan]

Well, when watching a Bay film, you're gonna see some stereotypes, as well as two other things:

1: A heavy emphasis on the American military.
2: Explosions every minute or so.

His only film I liked was The Rock, and that was because of the stuff one can see when reading between the lines.

 

[Set Harth]

Hmm, interesting. Did some looking and

Tolkien describes Gollum as either dark, bone-white or sallow (pale yellow); at one point the Men of Ithilien mistake his silhouette (seen from a distance) for a tailless black squirrel. In a manuscript written to guide illustrators to the appearance of his characters, Tolkien explained this by saying that Gollum had pale skin, but wore dark clothes and was often seen in poor light.[7]

from here. And really, that makes the most sense for someone that had been living underground for hundreds of years

So his clothing covers everything but his eyes?

 

[Thestral]

Hey, whine at Tolkien, not me. Besides, you can't deny that sallow/pale skin makes more sense for something that lives underground for hundreds of years.

 

[doubleohfive]

Tony Todd in The Rock.

How's that character a stereotype?

 

[Set Harth]

Hey, whine at Tolkien, not me.

Am I wearing a Jedi cloak or something? The point is that Tolkien seems to have changed his mind along the way.

 

[Skywalker]

The LOTR films seemingly went out of their way to be PC on the race issue, by making the Easterlings light-skinned and also changing Gollum's skin color.

Easterlings aren't supposed to be dark-skinned; they're from Middle-earth's version of Asia. If you're talking about the humans on the elephants in Return of the King, those were Southrons from Harad, which is Middle-earth's version of the Middle East.

 

[Silent_Bob]

The Lord of the Ring movies.

Those are some of the highest-grossing movies of the last few years and, yes, Transformers 3 is among the top 10.

But the rest of the movies on the list managed to gross nearly a billion dollars-plus without strong, offensive, racial stereotypes in them.

.

To be fair, The Lord of the Rings was criticised in some circles for not including racial stereotypes. Some critics, and i use the term loosely, believed that because Peter Jackson didn't change one of the main characters into a different ethnicity solely to be politically correct, the films were racist.

I've never really had that much of a problem with Bay's use of stereotypes, his films are not known for their depth of character and as others have said stereotypes are a shortcut in characterisation.

Personally i found his attitude towards women far more unsettling than his use of stereotypes.

 

[FordSVT]

@FordSVT Trekker is I think only making an observation. He also stated at the bottom of his original post that he doesn't think Bay is racist. Who's being overly sensitive in this thread?

No, what Trekker is doing is what Fox News does.

1) pose a question. In this case it is: What is it with Michael Bay and racial stereotypes?

2) ignore every answer but the one you were aiming for since the beginning: he's a racist and promotes racist stereotypes.

3) say "I didn't say he's a racist, but..." and proceed to give more reasons why you think he's a racist.

It's OK to just come out and say it, Trekker, say he's a racist jerk and move on with your life. I'm going to, because the conversation is neither timely nor that interesting. I have no stock in Michael Bay, I was simply giving you the answer to why Michael Bay makes stupid movies full of stereotypes. If you want to believe it's because he's pushing a racist agenda of some kind, that's cool.

What the fuck are you talking about?

It's OK to not have a clue what's going on, but it must get hard from day to day, yes?

 

[JarodRussell]

I don't see the issue with fictional characters being stereotypes.

 

[Pingfah]

It seems like Michael Bay's movies are often filled with racial stereotypes. Not just for blacks but for pretty much any character or person who isn't a white person of either American or British background. There's plenty of times when some other European, Asian, and other ethnicities don't come through his movies unscathed.

Does he really think all Scottish people speak with a thick brogue, or that all black women are heavier-set and boisterous three-snap loud mouths, and all black-men are rambling lecherous people who say "Dayum! Um-um-um!"

Since when are Scots not typically white people of a British background?

 

[Aeon]

Tony Todd in The Rock.

How's that character a stereotype?

It's obviously the "Tony Todd as the bad guy!" stereotype.

 

[JarodRussell]

This discussion is pretty interesting when you think about that this forum is a Trek forum and the last movie had plenty of stereotyping of (racial) characters. Chekov and Scotty are the comic relief characters with thick accents, Olson was the arrogant British idiot, Uhura was the uptight, opportunistic career woman, and so forth... Tyler Perry as the black President guy with charisma and presence could be considered yet another stereotype. If you want to see stereotypes everywhere, that is.
There are no problems with the stereotypical characters in Michael Bay movies. Every film has them, one more, one less.



And saying The Lord of the Rings films are racist... oh my...

 

[Set Harth]

If you're talking about the humans on the elephants in Return of the King, those were Southrons from Harad, which is Middle-earth's version of the Middle East.

Why would a comment about Easterlings being light-skinned refer to the Haradrim? I was talking about the Easterlings in The Two Towers.

 

[FordSVT]

Hmm, interesting. Did some looking and

Tolkien describes Gollum as either dark, bone-white or sallow (pale yellow); at one point the Men of Ithilien mistake his silhouette (seen from a distance) for a tailless black squirrel. In a manuscript written to guide illustrators to the appearance of his characters, Tolkien explained this by saying that Gollum had pale skin, but wore dark clothes and was often seen in poor light.[7]

from here. And really, that makes the most sense for someone that had been living underground for hundreds of years

And likely to be dirty and scummy looking as all hell on top of that. I doubt personal hygiene was tops on Gollum's list.

 

[Trekker4747]

Tony Todd in The Rock.

How's that character a stereotype?

The Rock seems to be one of Bay's movies that escaped having any real stereotypes in them. I suspect Bruckheimer or Don Simpson may have had something to do with that.

Since when are Scots not typically white people of a British background?

When I speak of Scots I speak of, strictly, the stereotypes usually associated people from Scotland. Namely the brogue and overall mannerisms/love for booze. "British" I was speaking people, specifically, from Britain/England, and not "everyone in the UK."

Usually, from my perspective, in Bay's movies people from Scotland speak with a heavy accent and, are, well stereotypes of the Scottish man. I suspect not every Scott is a heavy-drinking obese man that talks like Fat Bastard.

 

[Skywalker]

If you're talking about the humans on the elephants in Return of the King, those were Southrons from Harad, which is Middle-earth's version of the Middle East.

Why would a comment about Easterlings being light-skinned refer to the Haradrim? I was talking about the Easterlings in The Two Towers.

Just in case you were mistaking the Haradrim for Easterlings, as some people have before. But as I said, Easterlings aren't supposed to be dark-skinned either.

 

[Set Harth]

I may have been thinking of the other Easterlings.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Hey, whine at Tolkien, not me.

Am I wearing a Jedi cloak or something? The point is that Tolkien seems to have changed his mind along the way.

The Hobbit is mostly Bilbo's account of things. So likely artistic embellishments were made especially in regards to Gollum.