What If Worf Was Created To Be Romulan...

[Farscape One]

I want to credit and thank at Quark's for mentioning Worf as a Romulan, which inspired this thread.

I really love Klingons and their culture, but I also love the Romulans. Considering the idea of Worf was 'yesterday's enemies can be today's allies' by having him serve on the bridge, this message would also work if he was a Romulan. TOS established there was an actual war with them, so obviously they were enemies at one time.

Considering how deeply Klingon society was looked at due to Worf, how do you think Romulan society would have been written if Worf was a Romulan?

Would they written similarly as a secretive society, or would they be flipped with the Klingons? Or something else?

Temba, his arms open.

 

[David cgc]

There was already, to an extent, a switch between personas in Klingons and Romulans from TOS to TNG. In TOS, the Klingons had an authoritarian government, they were under constant surveillance by their own government, they employed spies and schemes, while the Romulans had a code of honor and were driven by glory and pride. So I would expect the early developments to be as they were in reality. As for later on, that actually raises an interesting question I don't know the answer to. Ron Moore ended up being the "Klingon Guy," but I don't know if Klingons were always his favorite when he was a fan as a kid before becoming a writer, or if that was an affinity that developed while writing TNG.

In a practical sense, I suspect Worf would inevitably be a Klingon because they'd eclipsed the Romulans as the primary villain over the course of the TOS movies, and having a Romulan on the bridge would be too similar to a Vulcan, and they were very much trying not to evoke TOS directly in ways like that (IIRC, that was also the reason for not having the chief engineer be a main character).

 

[Qonundrum]

IMHO, what Michael Dorn brought to the table, embracing the mysticism of what was known about Klingons is what led to the Klingon empire being fleshed out with some of TNG's best episodes and into DS9 as well, since DS9 could dive deeper into some rituals that you know they couldn't do in the shiny happy land of TNG, and is another of so many reasons why DS9 was the best Trek ever (and one that still needed TNG in the first place ), but before I really digress...

The Romulans, which Gene originally did not want, ended up being used because the Ferengi were faff - once again, thank DS9 for finding a way to make them a layered, credible species after their hit-or-miss TNG origins. I sat here watching mushrooms grow around me while trying to think how Worf as a Romulan might have worked. I find it impossible to do, because Worf more than one-upped the Klingons that were in III and IV. Plus what @David cgc said; the Romulans would be too similar to Vulcans, TNG was trying not to overdo TOS comparisons and they already had their hands full with "Data is Spock" and all that at the time (never mind the other complaint of "Data is the most human of the TNG crew" but before I digress), the movies were indeed using Klingons and it made more sense to show them in the new TV show as allies. III had switched to Klingons because of greater name recognition anyway. And while Gene had a great point about not reusing old enemes, the Romulans were the perfect exception to that as, IMHO, TNG embraced and made far better use of them.

 

[Farscape One]

There was already, to an extent, a switch between personas in Klingons and Romulans from TOS to TNG. In TOS, the Klingons had an authoritarian government, they were under constant surveillance by their own government, they employed spies and schemes, while the Romulans had a code of honor and were driven by glory and pride. So I would expect the early developments to be as they were in reality. As for later on, that actually raises an interesting question I don't know the answer to. Ron Moore ended up being the "Klingon Guy," but I don't know if Klingons were always his favorite when he was a fan as a kid before becoming a writer, or if that was an affinity that developed while writing TNG.

In a practical sense, I suspect Worf would inevitably be a Klingon because they'd eclipsed the Romulans as the primary villain over the course of the TOS movies, and having a Romulan on the bridge would be too similar to a Vulcan, and they were very much trying not to evoke TOS directly in ways like that (IIRC, that was also the reason for not having the chief engineer be a main character).

That's a fair point about the TOS movies and the similarity of Vulcans and Romulans. It is somewhat telling that the basic structure and traits of the TOS Klingons and Romulans were basically swapped in TNG, one does wonder if Worf as a Romulan was at least part of the conversations while creating TNG.

IMHO, what Michael Dorn brought to the table, embracing the mysticism of what was known about Klingons is what led to the Klingon empire being fleshed out with some of TNG's best episodes and into DS9 as well, since DS9 could dive deeper into some rituals that you know they couldn't do in the shiny happy land of TNG, and is another of so many reasons why DS9 was the best Trek ever (and one that still needed TNG in the first place ), but before I really digress...

The Romulans, which Gene originally did not want, ended up being used because the Ferengi were faff - once again, thank DS9 for finding a way to make them a layered, credible species after their hit-or-miss TNG origins. I sat here watching mushrooms grow around me while trying to think how Worf as a Romulan might have worked. I find it impossible to do, because Worf more than one-upped the Klingons that were in III and IV. Plus what @David cgc said; the Romulans would be too similar to Vulcans, TNG was trying not to overdo TOS comparisons and they already had their hands full with "Data is Spock" and all that at the time (never mind the other complaint of "Data is the most human of the TNG crew" but before I digress), the movies were indeed using Klingons and it made more sense to show them in the new TV show as allies. III had switched to Klingons because of greater name recognition anyway. And while Gene had a great point about not reusing old enemes, the Romulans were the perfect exception to that as, IMHO, TNG embraced and made far better use of them.

DS9 really did wonders with fleshing out the Ferengi and the Klingons. And, of course, the Cardassians. All the other shows were great at expanding the ST universe, but DS9 was the best at expanding specific worlds.

And you're right... TNG really did make great use of the Romulans. Best description of the Romulans was by Picard: "It's always a game of chess with them."

Rather fitting that the one series in the franchise that truly got to know them was PICARD season 1, which for me is one of the best aspects of that season. (Hell, one of my two absolute favorite episodes of TOS is "BALANCE OF TERROR", so I was always for learning more about that society.)

 

[Shawnster]

Worf as a Romulan might have had greater potential had they stuck to their original idea and had Romulans as the villains in ST TSFS.

Klingons were briefly seen in TMP and only their ships were depicted (recycled footage) in TWOK. They were barely in the movies. Had Harve Bennett (an Nimoy?) been overruled and they kept the Romulans as the big bad, then they would be the ones identified with honor and glory.

Flash forward 3 years and Worf (probably with a more Roman sounding name) appears as a Romulan - a Vulcan looking character that is perhaps portrayed as a little more logical than average, more passionate and emotional, prideful, seeking glory and honor, with latent telepathic abilities.

Maybe this more logical, somewhat telepathic character means there is no empathetic ship's counselor and, maybe, a main character that comes into conflict with Data and can push back against him when discussing logical options.

 

[Dukhat]

Klingons were briefly seen in TMP and only their ships were depicted (recycled footage) in TWOK. They were barely in the movies. Had Harve Bennett (an Nimoy?) been overruled and they kept the Romulans as the big bad, then they would be the ones identified with honor and glory.

I'm not so sure about that. The Klingons as depicted in TSFS were basically petty thugs flying around space without any perceived mission, just looking for trouble to get into, with a chip on their shoulder against the Federation. I'm not sure how that depiction would have changed had they used Romulans instead. Christopher Lloyd still would have played his character exactly the same way, only he would be sporting pointed ears rather than a bumpy forehead. None of the actions that Kruge and his crew did had anything to do with honor, so making them Romulans wouldn't have changed that unless they did major rewrites to the script to emphasize a parallel with how they were depicted in "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident."

The concept of the Klingons having a code of honor didn't come about until TNG, and that depiction was borne out of Ron Moore's reading John M. Ford's "The Final Reflection."

 

[Herbert]

I really love Klingons and their culture, but I also love the Romulans. Considering the idea of Worf was 'yesterday's enemies can be today's allies' by having him serve on the bridge, this message would also work if he was a Romulan. TOS established there was an actual war with them, so obviously they were enemies at one time.
.

The difference is that TOS (Errand of Mercy) also established that at some point in the future, Klingons and Humans would become allies. This was built upon in the TOS movie, The Undiscovered Country, so at least there was a basis there, a planting of seeds if you will for that eventual relationship. There were no such ideas ever presented about Romulans (at least not that I'm aware of in TOS and the movies). It would have been a much greater leap to pull this off with a Romulan instead of a Klingon. Obviously, it could have been done, not saying it couldn't, and then perhaps we would have a much more fleshed-out Romulan culture in Star Trek instead of Klingon.

 

[Weyoun 251]

The difference is that TOS (Errand of Mercy) also established that at some point in the future, Klingons and Humans would become allies in the future. This was built upon in the TOS movie, The Undiscovered Country, so at least there was a basis there, a planting of seeds if you will for that eventual relationship. There were no such ideas ever presented about Romulans (at least not that I'm aware of in TOS and the movies). It would have been a much greater leap to pull this off with a Romulan instead of a Klingon. Obviously, it could have been done, not saying it couldn't, and then perhaps we would have a much more fleshed-out Romulan culture in Star Trek instead of Klingon.

You say it would have been a leap but both FF and TUC came out after TNG was already in production/on the air

FF had the planet where all three had representatives so the move is already in place to begin bringing them closer together - just make it the Romulans who appear near then end and you are on the way

Think the use of Klingons in SFS and TVH is likely why Worf was Klingon himself as they had the screen time to back it up

 

[Herbert]

As I also said, it could have been done if they chose to do so. In television, all things are possible.

 

[Weyoun 251]

As I also said, it could have been done if they chose to do so. In television, all things are possible.

Sorry - came across more strongly than I meant it to.

I just meant that TUC and FF would have been driven by TNG (and therefore Worf being a Klingon) than the other way round.

Absolutely agree with your statement that they could have if they had wanted to

 

[Nerys Myk]

IIRC, the character of Worf was a last minute addition to the cast. Dorn was also cast after the rest. Not sure he was intinded to as prominent a character as he became.
If Worf had been Romulan I think there would have bee a less Space Viking Biker thing happening. The Romulans never really fit that bill. Though, neither did the Klingons in TOS.

 

[at Quark's]

To be honest, I didn't like how the Klingons degenerated from a crafty devious opponent to the drunk belchers, obsessed with honor that we got in TNG and DS9 (agreed, not every Klingon was of course). Given Jadzia's speech about how the Klingon Empire was degenerating and would die, I wonder whether it was their intent from the start, to show an empire in decay (but I don't think so, I think it was more of an afterthought when the entire process was well underway).

I did like how Worf was far more obsessed with traditional and 'official' Klingon values than Klingons actually living in Klingon society were, and I thought that was a somewhat accurate portrayal of how some immigrants in their new countries seem to adhere to some traditions far more rigidly than most people living back in their country of origin actually do.

It would have been interesting to see a Romulan version of that.

 

[PoorSailorsAirline]

To be honest, I didn't like how the Klingons degenerated from a crafty devious opponent to the drunk belchers, obsessed with honor that we got in TNG and DS9 (agreed, not every Klingon was of course). Given Jadzia's speech about how the Klingon Empire was degenerating and would die, I wonder whether it was their intent from the start, to show an empire in decay (but I don't think so, I think it was more of an afterthought when the entire process was well underway).

I did like how Worf was far more obsessed with traditional and 'official' Klingon values than Klingons actually living in Klingon society were, and I thought that was a somewhat accurate portrayal of how some immigrants in their new countries seem to adhere to some traditions far more rigidly than most people living back in their country of origin actually do.

It would have been interesting to see a Romulan version of that.

Not to completely derail this thread off of Mr. Worf, but...I personally never did get into the novelverse/fan productions/gaming, anything outside of the shows and films really. But as Balance of Terror was the first ST episode, ever, that I remember seeing I've always had a nerd-crush on the Romulans.

So...if you're into seeing one author's great glimpse into the Romulan Empire, can't say enough good things about Diane Duane's Rihannsu series. It's the only TV show-based novel I think I have just not been able to put down. Most of the reason why is her deep dives into the characters and their history, language, culture, worldview (universeview? hah) and all that fascinating stuff. Plus she writes the most beautiful prose.

Back to Worf, it certainly would have made things different. Not better or worse, just really different. I wonder if the Klingon's would become the lurking, shadowy, cagey enemy for the UFP and the Romulan/Vulcan reunification been history before TNG started? I'd say it certainly would have been an interesting twist. However, I've always been fascinated by Romulans, so I'm actually rather happy S1 TNG mainly left them alone. There were more bumpy things about those early portrayals of Neo-Klingons in S1 than just the foreheads. And I hate to think of the shadowy, cunning Romulans getting the early TNG Ferengi treatment instead.

Obviously it's a huge game of 'what-if' - we could certainly be having a very different discussion if Mr. Worf had pointy ears and bled green instead - but I kind of like always having a bit of mystery around the Romulans. It's almost charming compared to the bat'leths and bloodwine in-your-face Klingons. (Not that I would ever say no to a round of bloodwine myself )

 

[somebuddyX]

There's two ways you could go about this as a thought process, one with Worf as a Romulan for a different production universe back in 1987, or in-universe, in a different quantum universe, have the Federation and Romulans in an alliance and have a new Romulan character as a Worf-type surrogate on the Enterprise. For me, Worf being Klingon or there being a Klingon character in the first spinoff is just so inevitable that I never really thought of it differently before. But I've thought a bit about the latter, especially in regards to using that outside character to play with issues that we have in the 20th and 21st century but you hope are gone by 24th century. I don't really know much about Romulan culture and what their social norms are but I think even if they are portrayed as liberal in Picard you could have them be more closeminded in TNG time with the state running everything and thought police and whatnot, sort of a dark reflection of a composite USA/USSR. You could have that character challenged by their beliefs. Or that's my thoughts at least. I was really influenced by the Starfleet Academy comics by Chris Cooper who would uses aliens as surrogates to explore issues of racism and homophobia.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I don’t know how different Worf would be, if we base everything from where we left off at TSFS and TVH.

The Klingons would have honor, but don't take prisoners and employ schemes and spies. This also probably ends all speculation regarding their ridges, as its accepted that they alter their appearance as spies.

The Romulans would also have honor, but would rather die than surrender.

The main difference might be that the Romulans are no longer a police state; that falls all on the Klingons. And the Romulans are treated as an intellectual equal to the Federation.

Worf might not be thrown around as much to establish how dangerous the villain-of-the-week is. If they did, I think a lot of comparisons would be drawn how Spock wasn’t thrown around this much in TOS. I think Worf denials would still remain though.

From a story perspective, the Romulan Neutral Zone would be gone, but the Klingon Neutral Zone remains. There might still be a civil war arc where Worf still leaves to serve, with the Romulans and Klingons swapping places, but I do not know if there is still a Duras arc, or an arc of Worf trying to restore honor to his house. Worf's father might still be accuse of treason, but it ends there. "The Defector" and "The Enemy" would largely still play out the same way, but with the Klingons and Romulans role reversed.

I do not know what they would do with K’Ehleyr either, if they keep her Klingon, or they make her Romulan. I don’t think there’s as much of a need to kill her off regardless of the direction, allowing for her relationship with Worf to flourish and to go in very interesting directions. And if she’s Romulan, then it allows for a great exploration of the type of romance shown between, Spock and the Romulan Commander in “The Enterprise Incident”. And as a Klingons, then it creates a Romeo and Juliet vibe to it. But if she is still killed off, is it based around differing philosophies regarding reunification? Or is she another casualty of Federation-Klingon hostilities? The former seems more interesting, but I don’t know if that the direction they go in.

Depending on how K’Ehleyr is developed, it also has interesting implications for Alexander and how his relationship with Worf develops. If Alexander stays Klingon, he’s more interested in his Klingon side than this Romulan side. If Alexander is Romulan, Alexander refuses to learn what a true Romulan is.

A Troi -Worf romance, as it was presented in TNG, would probably be far more believable in this scenario. Which means a love triangle of Riker-Troi-Worf.

 

[Lynx]

Interesting concept actually.

OK, I'm perfectly happy with Worf as he is but it could have been interesting with a Romulan main character in some series.

 

[Shawnster]

The Klingons would have honor, but don't take prisoners and employ schemes and spies.

Klingons do take prisoners, as depicted in "Errand of Mercy" and "Day of the Dove". Kirk's line in TWOK, in context of those 2 episodes, was nothing more than him hazing Savvik and busting her chops.

 

[Qonundrum]

As I also said, it could have been done if they chose to do so. In television, all things are possible.

True, anyone can plop anything in front of a camera, film it, then broadcast it, but getting and keeping enough audiences who will probably buy the advertised products by the sponsors who helped pay for the show's production is another. Whomever those intended audiences are, of course. That's where content and tone of the shows being produced comes into factor, and - of course - those demographics surveying techniques that somehow missed out on TOS actually having a wider audience because the replacement tallying systems' maths actually carried over the 1 this time and, bingo, the original Trek was actually popular: Was Star Trek Canceled While It Was Actually a Secret Ratings Success? (cbr.com) <-- hey look, that's me as an animated cartoon*, squeeeeee!

But I love to digress...

Also, I wanna see Worf as a Ferengi. Well, maybe not...

* a much small one than usual, rather ​

 

[Herbert]

Klingons do take prisoners, as depicted in "Errand of Mercy" and "Day of the Dove". Kirk's line in TWOK, in context of those 2 episodes, was nothing more than him hazing Savvik and busting her chops.

Or just a continuity error. Let's face it, no one was at the helm of the continuity ship through all the various iterations of Star Trek. Or maybe, it's more accurate to say that story trumps continuity, and it does, every single time.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Probably a unpopular opinion, but I think Worf and especially Klingon culture would have become way more fascinating, if they weren't retconned to the honor obsessed space vikings we know after "Heart of Glory" but their development was a lot more in line with that episode and especially John M. Ford's version of the Klingons.

A romulan version of Worf alternatively could have become really interesting at this early stage of TNG history, because we knew so little about them and they still had a lot of options for developing their culture open at that time.