What If TMP Remake (Part Deux)

[CuttingEdge100]

You know, I'm thinking the raised grids like in TOS were more practical purposes considering the skin of the vessel is rather thin (according to Andrew Probert's drawing of the rec-room which showed the skin thickness) even with a few extra inches of thickness which I took into account, the recessing for the grids would start eating into the ship a little bit. I'm not sure how serious it would be, but I think the raised grid was a better idea.

The TMP Enterprise does have some raised grids (bridge, and I think the nav dome) as it was anyway so I don't think it would be too out there...


CuttingEdge100

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I would take that blank check and start a foundation to educate people about the folly of altering old movies to make parts of them look more modern.

 

[Data Holmes]

The first thing I would do if we were to remake TMP would be to put The God Thing in charge of the production. Nobody here understands the material and the lost potential of TMP more.

Indeed.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

The first thing I would do if we were to remake TMP would be to put The God Thing in charge of the production. Nobody here understands the material and the lost potential of TMP more.

Indeed.

I truly appreciate the sentiment, gentlemen, but my abilities as a filmmaker don't extend very far beyond hidden-camera domestic erotica.

TGT

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The first thing I would do if we were to remake TMP would be to put The God Thing in charge of the production. Nobody here understands the material and the lost potential of TMP more.

Indeed.

I truly appreciate the sentiment, gentlemen, but my abilities as a filmmaker don't extend very far beyond hidden-camera domestic erotica.

TGT

Damnit, I knew that was you in the bushes outside my apartment window!

 

[cardinal biggles]

Damnit, I knew that was you in the bushes outside my apartment window!

Thank God I live above the ground floor and keep the blinds drawn in my bedroom.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Hey The God Thing, did you tell them about the infra-red cams?

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Another thing I'd want to change would be the K'Tinga Battlecruiser.

The basic design I like, I just don't like the obsessive degree of surface detail added by Mr. Trumbull. The design should be smoother and less detailed. Instinctinvely, I'm thinking something like that DS9 Episode when they went back in time to the "Trouble With Tribbles" episode -- the re-done CGI on the IKS Groth showed more deflector gridding (well it's actually more faceted shapes, but you know what I mean).
HERE is an example

I would still prefer the grayer finish used on the TOS and TMP set-up. It looks better.

The longer nacelles the D-7 K'Tinga has I'd like to retain and I wouldn't mind having them glow in the inboard area.

There are parts of the ship I'd want to change, basically the first thing is if you look at the front of the ship where the torpedo tube is, there's an etching around the tube. I'd want to change that etching into part of the navigational deflector system along with some of the "dent" (torpedo tube) with the torpedo launcher being right in the middle. Since the Enterprise's torpedo tubes are quite small, I don't see why the Klingon design would need to be so large. Considering the shape of the concave dent (circular) I'd prefer to have Klingon torpedoes have a cylindrical cross-section.

Since it would be kind of weird for a ship like the K'Tinga to have no shuttlebays, and putting the shuttle bays up on top of the box-section of the hull (the part with the vents in the front) is not entirely to my liking -- it looks like there would be important stuff in that box-structure: I offer two solutions
1.) The K'Tinga drawings often show cargo-bay doors on the front of the inboard wing structure. Those can carry a shuttle...
-Launch is simple: Just rocket out the front
-Landing can be done by getting in front of the bay and then slowing down, or allowing the D-7 to overtake. Tractor beams can also be used in the process
2.) The original D-7 from the TV series had a single vent where the impulse drives were supposed to be. It might be big enough to house a shuttle. The main engines can be configured how they were on the K'Tinga (on either side of that location) which would pose no problem to the best of my knowledge.

The rear torpedo tube set-up doesn't require a large dent like in TMP and frankly I don't like it. The tube need not be that big. In fact looking at the Voyager episode "Flashback" when they beamed aboard the USS Excelsior while it was transiting the Azure Nebula, there was this one image of a K'Tinga...

The torpedo tube could be fitted on the lower part of that cruciform structure in between the engines (and as an interesting note, if you removed the part of the cruciform structure covering up that rectangular door like structure on the main hull which on the standard D-7 from TOS, you would notice that was where the original impulse vent was located -- it could be the shuttlebay -- and mount a rear torp just below)

 

[GodThingFormerly]

The basic design I like, I just don't like the obsessive degree of surface detail added by Mr. Trumbull.

The additional surface detailing on the K't'inga miniature was added by Apogee (who were charged with photographing it for ST:TMP's opening sequence), not Trumbull.

TGT

 

[CuttingEdge100]

The God Thing,

The additional surface detailing on the K't'inga miniature was added by Apogee (who were charged with photographing it for ST:TMP's opening sequence), not Trumbull.

Regardless, I don't like the excessive detail. Lacks the high-tech, clean-cut look which made Star Trek look great.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Data Holmes]

The God Thing,

The additional surface detailing on the K't'inga miniature was added by Apogee (who were charged with photographing it for ST:TMP's opening sequence), not Trumbull.

Regardless, I don't like the excessive detail. Lacks the high-tech, clean-cut look which made Star Trek look great.


CuttingEdge100

I kinda liked that for the klingons... suggests that they are a "little less high tech" than the fed.

 

[DarKush]

For me, I would change up some of the characters/characterization.

In the back story, I would establish that Kirk went on 2 five-year missions before being promoted, and Decker was his hand pick to succeed him after Spock left for Vulcan. So, the movie would start about 12 years or so from the end of the third season of TOS, which would also give Decker a little more time in control of the Enterprise.

That way I would play on more tension between him and Kirk when Kirk assumes command. I would also have kept Xon.

Right now, I can't think of more. Outside of making the movie a little more exciting and adding background music to a lot of the scenes that lacked it.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Data Holmes,

Actually the Klingon's are at least close in technological capability to Starfleet... I should also note the D-7 from TOS had very little surface detail like the Enterprise.


DarKush,

I think I would have it set up kind of like. Kirk completes five year mission. Since 2.5 years pass between the end of TOS and TMP and the ship only took 1.5 years to refit, I'd have the Enterprise doing something for that year long period. I don't know what that would be. Kirk could however be a Rear Admiral with the Enterprise being a flagship for a battlegroup. Whether Kirk would retain command or another Captain would be put on for that time period I don't know.

The Enterprise comes in to dock and Decker oversees the refit. Whether he was an executive officer of another ship, or his experience as officer in charge of refit gives him what would be considered the experience necessary to command the Enterprise (I remember hearing that being an explanation for how Kirk got command of the Enterprise) I don't know.

Either way, since Kirk is the youngest captain in like the history of Starfleet, I think Decker's character should be at least 35 - 37 years of age (people in military service often look young due to them being in such good physical shape).

Kirk now is promoted to full-Admiral -- crazy as this sounds but
1.) In WW2 it was very common to have Rear Admirals get bumped up to full admiral (temporary) for purposes of major commands. Like for example Admiral Kimmel was a Rear Admiral until January/February 1941. At that point Admiral Richardson was relieved of command as CINCPAC, and Kimmel was temporarily made a full Admiral. Nogura could probably at least get the strings pulled for that
2.) I've actually found out that once you get one star in the military there is no minimum time at rank in peacetime before being eligible for promotion. Granted the President would have to approve it.

I don't know what Director of Starfleet Ops entails, so I don't know if Kirk should have such a position, but he would definetly have a very high position...


As for the Enterprise crew -- this is going to get me hated. There's only so much time realistically speaking that a person can stay on one ship generally speaking. The longest I've ever heard prior to the movies was Spock who served on the Enterprise from 2254 or 2255 to 2270 which for most purposes sounds like a record. I'd say Uhura can stay as she came on during the start of Kirk's 5-year mission, I'd keep Chekov as he's a young guy anyway and got on in 2267.


-Spock in Phase II was supposed to have either become some kind of instructor either at the Vulcan academy or Starfleet Academy, and in TMP was undergoing the Kolinahr -- so he's out of the picture

-Scotty can be promoted and see the refit of Enterprise; might even stay with her for the shakedown cruise but otherwise the ship will have a new engineering officer.

-Sulu will be promoted to LCDR like in the movie but I'd have his character off the Enterprise at the end of the five year mission. Perhaps he could be the exec of some other ship?

-Ilia I'm reluctant to keep. While her character looked just like a bald human; there was a character on the Saratoga in TSFS who was supposed to be a deltan and he didn't look anything like a human -- and really should all aliens just look like humans?

-McCoy would either be retired or would be doing something else in SF. I'm not sure I'd want to have McCoy retired: On one hand it does seem in character -- however people do change their minds and he does end up serving until he's at least 137 years of age... Unlike TMP, I would not want to have Chapel as an MD -- especially the CMO of the entire ship.


My recommendations would be to have

1.) A new Executive Officer: This was never really resolved in TMP... since Kirk bumped Decker down to XO, there was no XO on the ship! As a result, I'd prefer to put in a new exec. I'd prefer a woman actually since in TOS they never had any woman captains (Federation at least), since Decker is already established as the captain, a female XO would be the next best thing

2.) A new Science-Officer: I am loathe to have a new Science-Officer be a Vulcan; too much of the same thing you know...
-Either a new human science officer could be written in - male or female, black, skin-color irrelevant (I suppose I could toss up a coin to determine)
-Ilia could be an LCDR (Department heads should have a suitably high rank, and Persis Khambatta was nearly 30 anyway) and be the science-officer as a deltan
-Ilia could be an LCDR and be the science officer as a human. Ilia is a name that can be used for humans...

3.) A new Chief-Engineer: I'd actually prefer to have a vulcan as an engineer. Why not? Vulcans have a reputation of being highly-logical, and possessing superior mathematical skills to most humans. These qualities while good for a science officer is also quite good for an engineer. Commander Sonak could be re-written into the story as being an Engineering-officer. It would be sure better than having the poor guy liquefied in a transporter accident.

4.) A new Chief-Medical Officer: No idea (any ideas?)


CuttingEdge100

 

[CuttingEdge100]

4.) A new Chief Medical Officer: I'm thinking of just putting a white guy in that spot. Character should be about ~40-45 years of age, dark hair. Average height to tall.


CuttingEdge100

 

[CuttingEdge100]

What does the position of "Director of Fleet-Ops" entail exactly?

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Anybody?

 

[cardinal biggles]

If nobody's answered your question, it means one of two things:

1. Nobody knows.
2. Nobody's interested.

Either way, stop bumping your threads unless you're going to post something more substantive than the equivalent of "Bueller? Bueller?"

 

[CuttingEdge100]

fra-gee-lay,

I wasn't trying to bump my thread up; I just wanted an answer to my question (I was curious). Regardless, I think you're right, at least on this forum, (Star Trek Movies) that nobody either cares or knows.

If you want you can delete the last two posts I made if you wish...


CuttingEdge100

 

[CuttingEdge100]

As I said, if I was to have "re-made" TMP, I would have gotten rid of the V-Ger angle due to the numerous flaws in the plot and would have instead persued a different plot-line.

One thing I thought would be interesting would be if the Genesis-Device angle was used instead. Rather than having Khan come back with a vengeance, I was thinking that the enemy would be either the Romulans or Klingons trying to get their hands on it -- which in this respect would make the plot more TSFS like.

The Romulans sound truthfully to be the best choice -- and they could be written in as being an empire under rapid technological-development. After all, they went from having either nonexistant warp-drive technology (or at least minimal warp-drive capability), which appears to have stagnated for decades, and then in the 2260's rapidly developed ships capable of Warp 4 or 5 or more, and then inherited a bunch of Klingon D-7's through an alliance which were comparable to Starfleet capability; they developed cloaking technology with which Klingon help was able to see through it's own cloak; at least some of their weapons technology is superior to Klingon or Federation design (Plasma torpedoes).

With such a rapidly developing technological base, they could be motivated into becoming a far more ambitious and rapidly expanding empire. Considering how many planets there are in the galaxy that are uninhabitable, a device like Genesis would be highly useful. It also could make a remarkable weapon which for an imperialistic nation or a nation with imperialistic aims.

The amount of energy to actually turn a planet completely into energy, turn it back into matter (re-forming it into the matter you want), then manipulating gravity to keep it from exploding and make it fall back into shape, and then form everything into the shape you want could probably blow up a whole star-system. It could effectively be a weapon of mass-destruction even in the era of interstellar-travel.

The idea would have essentially have started in the 2250's and 2260's and would have largely been based on alien technology with some of the brightest federation scientists working on it. The idea is that the technology would be viewed quite optimistically at first, but as the design developed doubts as to it's effectiveness, worries about what could happen if the device worked improperly (massive explosion), and also worries about the controversy it could produce. It could even be written into the story that the Federation considered cancelling it a few times.

At least early on the technology would have been classified top-secret or ultra top-secret or something, with those developing it only responding to key Federation personnel (A couple of Admirals, a few Federation-Politicians, the President, possibly a few ships attached to the project -- to look for stuff to test the device on). In the story Admiral Kirk due to his high rank and vital position would have knowledge on it.

Unlike in TWOK, I don't think being able to test such a device inside an asteroid would be practical (When the genesis device was detonated a huge shockwave resulted). However testing it on huge asteroids and planetoids to show it could work on larger scales would be interesting prior to testing it on a full size planet.


I'd like to hear input, and any ideas.


CuttingEdge100

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Another thing I would change about the Romulans and Klingons is certain aspects of the cloaking-device...

At least by Enterprise Incident, they could pretty accurately see through the cloak -- unlike the Bird of Prey in BoT. Even if one could argue somehow that the energy drain would limit the use of Phasers, the use of Photon-Torpedoes would not be affected. They are essentially missiles -- if they can acquire a target that's all you need. The energy required for launch is not anywhere near as high as firing energy based weapons.

Another thing I would change is the means of propulsion while sublight under cloak. Using regular impulse is remarkably stupid. Even modern day we have heat-seeking missiles -- in fact we've had them since at least the 1950's.

The idea I'm thinking of would be to use warp at low levels while under-cloak. To avoid the warp-fields being detected, the warp-drives would be modified to project a field out that a certain distance from the ship neutralizes the field. In otherwords within the field the ship is propelled, go further away the second field phases out the warp-field. Unless you were on top of it, it would be able to operate undetected.

Considering in The Enterprise Incident the Enterprise and Klingon ships were able to go to warp while cloaked and still unable to detect each other, the idea I'm thinking of would be to apply a similar idea to the warp-drive in general -- the ability to phase out the warp field a certain distance away from the ship in order to "hide" the warp-field -- it wouldn't be totally perfect -- from very very far away or from very close it would be detectable. Regardless considering the energy to do this would be virtually the same as generating the warp-field, if not more, unlike in Enterprise incident, I think it would be necessary to reduce the warp-speed the ship could fly at while cloaked.

The nav-deflector might need to be "cloaked" too. Dunno how that would work -- I'm guessing the same principle as used for the warp-drive. I would speculate this would be harder as the nav-deflector would have to project ahead of the warp-drive at high-speed. This could potentially drive down the speed of the ship further while at warp or there would be about a 15-30 degree arc along the front of the ship that would be somewhat detectable. Ideas?

Truthfully speaking the energy to produce a warpfield and that kind of nav-deflector power, phaser use seems unusual to restrict.

Regardless, it could be written into a story that there's a new rule instituted when operating near the Neutral Zone for Federation ships to always be operating shields up... It could also be written into the plot that some perimeter action ships are fitted with some equipment which has limited ability to detect cloaked vessels. The Enterprise Refit being the newest ship could have one of these...


CuttingEdge100