What if the Borg had invaded during the Dominion war?

[The Rock]

Like lets say that during the height of the Dominion war (when Starfleet was at their weakest), the Borg had invaded the Alpha (and then the Gamma) quadrants with a fleet of ships. Do you think this would've forced the Dominion and the Federation to end their war with each other to make an alliance to defeat the Borg? Or do you think the Dominion would've tried to fight both the Borg AND the Federation?

 

[Alisium]

The Borg would have assilimated or annhilated the Federation. They didn't have enough resources ever, especially for a Federation of that size, they should have had hundreds of thousads of ships within Starfleet. I think the most they ever gathered was somewhere close to 50 at a time.

During the Dominion war they were all tied up. The Borg would have done what they had come to do. Of course, if the Borg ever smartened up and sent TWO ships at once, it be over then too.

Of course, who knows what the dominion may do. They may realize that once the Federation is within the Borg's grasp, the Borg may go after the Dominion. The Dominion may call a truce.

 

[Sci]

The Borg would have kicked both the Dominion's and the Federation's asses.

 

[Vanyel]

Alisium said:
I think the most they ever gathered was somewhere close to 50 at a time.

You're off by about 550. At least 600 ships were gathered by the Federation to retake DS9 during DS9's Sacrifice of Angels.

 

[Jono]

Another option you didn't consider is that the Dominion just agrees to stop fighting with the Federation but doesn't help them with the Borg. Then once the Feds and their allies are suitably weaken further then the Dominion moves in to save the day and fight off the Borg. In the panic that would be everywhere in the Federation worlds would be probably very eager to join the Dominion especially if Starfleet is getting hammered and the Dominion show that they can protect them.

As for the Dominion losing, they might not. They are bad guys and like all bad guys they are more willing to use "evil" tactics. Unlike Picard the Dominion would be more then happy to deploy a virus to wipe out all the Borg or deploy vast amounts of biological and chemical weapons. ALso if there were a major battle between the Feds and the Borg in a star system that involved significant numbers of ships the Dominion would be willing to blow up the star in that system and wipe out both sides (even if the Dominion was involved in the battle they would still do it since they consider their forces expendable).

 

[Ro_Laren]

The Borg would have destroyed the Federation and then turned on the surrounding Alpha Quadrant races. Of course they would have turned to the Klingons and Romulans afterwards. Then they would go through the wormhole and attack the Dominion.... Guess Janeway was keeping the Borg busy in the Delta Quadrant...

 

[Alisium]

Vanyel said:

Alisium said:
I think the most they ever gathered was somewhere close to 50 at a time.

You're off by about 550. At least 600 ships were gathered by the Federation to retake DS9 during DS9's Sacrifice of Angels.

I havn't seen much of DS9 so that's why the error. I know basically what happened but, like I said, didn't see it.

Still in TNG times all they could be bothered to raise was the 50 or so ships at Wolf 359 and again at Earth in FC. Both were for extreme dangers to the Federation. If they got 600 ships for the DS9 battle then I would venture to guess they tapped themselves out.

In which case the borg own all.

 

[Gamma_Quadrant]

I don't think the Borg would beat the Dominion as easily as people claim. In TNG/VOY, we constantly see that if there is one thing that hurts the Borg, it is viruses. Who are the masters of inflicting such evil things? That's right! The Dominion.

Also, what type of invasion are we talking about? According to the stupid Borg, sending one cube is an "invasion". If you mean a flat out invasion, with thousands of ships? Then the Borg would obviously overtake the Federation. On the other hand, the Prophets would never let anything happen to their precious Emissary. So maybe they'd intervene and assist the Federation like they did with the Dominion?

 

[Vanyel]

Alisium said:

Vanyel said:

Alisium said:
I think the most they ever gathered was somewhere close to 50 at a time.

You're off by about 550. At least 600 ships were gathered by the Federation to retake DS9 during DS9's Sacrifice of Angels.

I havn't seen much of DS9 so that's why the error. I know basically what happened but, like I said, didn't see it.

Still in TNG times all they could be bothered to raise was the 50 or so ships at Wolf 359 and again at Earth in FC. Both were for extreme dangers to the Federation. If they got 600 ships for the DS9 battle then I would venture to guess they tapped themselves out.

In which case the borg own all.

Again, not quiet. The fleet was made up of parts of several Federation fleets. It was insinuated that the fleet that the Federation had originally planned on using could not be gathered because the Dominion was moving faster than expected. So they left to fight with all they could gather in shortened time frame.

I am of the opinion that the Federation Starfleet has a huge number of ships at its disposal. With at least 150 worlds in the Federation they would have huge numbers of personnel and materials for ship building.

Just a thought, but lets say that there is an average of 2 billion people per member world, thats 300 billion people. If just .5% join Starfleet thats 1.5 billion. (Someone please check my math.) That's more than enough to man thousands of ships and Starbase's (even if my math is off by 1 billion).

I just think that Starfleet is so intent on exploration that it leaves just enough ships in Federation space to deter attacks from their known enemies. I would imagine that after the Dominion War exploration has been scaled back to allow for greater defense capabilities.

All that being said, I think that the Federation and her Allies would have come to a truce with the Dominion to fight a common foe.

 

[WillsBabe]

Wonder what that Changeling pond would have looked like Borgified. Would JemHadar soldiers have still needed their Ketrecel White if they were Borged?

If the Borg had invaded in the middle of the war it would all have been over by half time, in my opinion.

 

[Vanyel]

Gamma_Quadrant said:
I don't think the Borg would beat the Dominion as easily as people claim. In TNG/VOY, we constantly see that if there is one thing that hurts the Borg, it is viruses. Who are the masters of inflicting such evil things? That's right! The Dominion.

And Section 31. My bet is that once they found out the possibility of being able to plant a virus in the Collective that Section 31 came up with dozens of different viruses to try.

 

[Sisu]

Can a Founder be assimilated?

*Imagines a bucket of goo with Borg Implants on the bucket*

 

[AdmiralGarak]

I'd assume that the Founder would just "sweat" out the nanoprobes. Or they'd turn into diamond so that the injectors would bounce off them. Or they'd turn into fire, which the nanoprobes wouldn't even recognize as a lifeform before being burnt up. Or they'd become a nanoprobe and go unnoticed by the real nanoprobes.

In other words... I highly doubt it.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My thought is that, if they could be assimilated, it'll kill them. Changeling cells get replaced with Borg cells, which don't have shapeshifting abilities.

 

[Anwar]

The Fed fleet in FC that fought the Borg was likely in the hundreds. Remember that they'd been fighting the Borg all the way from the Typhon sector to Earth. It was a massive running battle where lots of people died.

The only reason only 40 ships showed up in "Best of Both Worlds" was:

1) Because the Borg were coming in so fast that those 40 were the only ones close enough to make it there in time, more ships were on the way.

2) Back in TOS and TNG they used the "Age of Sail" model for ships, that there were only a few at a time (so to make them more special). Starting in DS9 they decided to drop the "Age of Sail" thing and adopt the "lots of ships" model that B5 and "Space: Above and Beyond" used so now they could use tons of ships.

 

[Deks]

AdmiralGhoulish said:
I'd assume that the Founder would just "sweat" out the nanoprobes. Or they'd turn into diamond so that the injectors would bounce off them. Or they'd turn into fire, which the nanoprobes wouldn't even recognize as a lifeform before being burnt up. Or they'd become a nanoprobe and go unnoticed by the real nanoprobes.

In other words... I highly doubt it.

Problem is, the Changelings don't know of the assimilation procedure (at least to our knowledge), plus the procedure itself is almost instantaneous.
The Founders as a highly developed species might possibly have a higher natural resistance to the assimilation, but I doubt they would be able to hold it off too much without treatment.
Plus their ability to shapeshift would probably be affected because of the painfulness of the assimilation and changes to the DNA that happen as a result of nanoprobes.

They have a genetic structure after all, and it's being rewritten by Borg tech once the nanoprobes are inside the victims body.

The only species that are immune to Borg assimilation are 8472.
Those are from another dimension altogether and extremely advanced race in comparison to the Milky Way galaxy combined.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

While 8472 is very advanced evolutionary (and their immune system can fight it), so are the Founders.

 

[Rarewolf]

Anwar said:
The Fed fleet in FC that fought the Borg was likely in the hundreds. Remember that they'd been fighting the Borg all the way from the Typhon sector to Earth. It was a massive running battle where lots of people died.

You only need one ship to defeat the Borg, and we didn't see her fight the Dominion war on screen.

 

[Star Wolf]

Ro_Laren said:
The Borg would have destroyed the Federation and then turned on the surrounding Alpha Quadrant races. Of course they would have turned to the Klingons and Romulans afterwards. Then they would go through the wormhole and attack the Dominion.... Guess Janeway was keeping the Borg busy in the Delta Quadrant...

The Borg would have destroyed no one. Your on example is the weaker races of the Delta Quadrant. The Borg wish to add the "distinctiveness" to the collective. In a way they are like ranchers or slavers. To continue to grow and add distinctiveness they need wild humans, Klingons etc to continue to grow and improve themselves.

The Borg attack is just to take a representative sample of the races they attack. Maybe in the case of Klingons or like honor bound races unwilling to cut their loss they do knock some societies back to the stoneage. But for most they just have to convince the survivors that resistance is indeed futile and continue to cull the wild herd like the Wraith over on Atlantis.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Problem is, the Changelings don't know of the assimilation procedure (at least to our knowledge), plus the procedure itself is almost instantaneous.

The Dominion's intelligence gathering can't be THAT weak! The Borg are well known to the Federation, so they'd be known to all societies that have any degree of interaction with the Federation.

I'm going with the notion that Founders are un-assimilatable. And Jems wouldn't last long as drones; they'd run out of k-white and die. What a wonder fail-safe against disloyalty.

So that just leaves the threat of assimilated Vorta!