What if Gene had lived?

[Trekker4747]

What if Gene Roddenberry -creator of Star Trek- had lived?

Gene died during the fifth season of TNG and at that point his fading health limited his involvment with that series so for the most part Rick Berman -a man who's far more suited for the "business" aspect of the franchise than the creative aspect- took over the franchise and much, much, MUCH has been said how he handled things from a creative angle.

What if Gene had lived though? What if his health hadn't limited his involvement with the franchise? How would've TNG's last 2 or 3 seasons have gone? Would we have still gotten DS9? (IIRC DS9 was in development when Gene passed so...) How much different would DS9 have been?

Gene had a very bright and optomistic look on his "future" so would DS9 of still went into a darker theme with the War?

Would we have gotten Voyager? (a "product" if there ever was one)
Enterprise? (even more of a "product.")

How would TNG's movies have gone?

Would we still be doing TNG movies?

What would the franchise be like right now?

I'd rather us not get into a Bermaga sucks kind of debate here or rantings on the quality of the various series beyond simple opinions on them (sort of like I did.) Just speculation on what the Franchise would be like today and what would've happened throughout it if Gene had lived and kept a more active role in it.

 

[Yeffrey]

Hmmm.... interesting concept to ponder.

I think the stories for the TNG movies wouldve been a little better quality; save for FC which was great. I think they wouldnt have had the Picard & Data turn Rambo angle to them and the other cast members wouldve gotten better secondary plot lines/character development. I think Generations wouldnt have had the original cast in it at all because Gene wouldve insisted to the studio that TNG can spread its movie wings and fly alone.

As for the other series DSN wouldnt have had the Dominion War. I know Gene was always very optimistic of the future and IIRC he had stated in earlier interviews he didnt want to showcase death and destruction; he wanted to show the human spirit and potential for exploring the unknown. That being said Voyager probably wouldve been very different; Im thinking different writing staff churning out decent stories that dont revolve around rerouting power to the deflector to defeat the Borg.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Gene had a very bright and optomistic look on his "future" so would DS9 of still went into a darker theme with the War?

I'm not sure if GR really had that bright a view of the future. No doubt he hoped for a brighter day, etc. but where there is a vision of Utopia, so there is also a counterbalance, that being, the world we live in.
I think he was using the Utopian element like a broad alegbraic equation, something to the effect of, if X equals Utopia/Technology, find for "X". Whether you expect humanity to "get there" or not, by setting the equation this way, you get that kind of tone to the stories. The "finding for X" takes place through the humanist elements of the stories.
Taking out that element basically means you're not doing Star Trek anymore. You may be doing something Trek-derived, but it's not the real deal. But, it seems pretty clear that, despite their desire to do Space Invaders, the creative leadership of post TNG Trek did honor that equation, even if their stories went "darker".
I think, had he lived, the pattern would have repeated, and he would have come back to the helm at some point.

 

[C.E. Evans]

My Opinion/Wishful Thinking:
I could see Roddenberry continuing to pitch ideas and new characters for future Trek spinoffs. But even if his health was still good, he was still getting up there in age and I think he would be less involved in the daily grind of running shows. He probably would be less hands-on like Aaron Spelling was, IMO...

That being said...

The TV Shows:
I think Series III still would have been set on a space station, but probably a brand-new, state-of-the-art Federation-built starbase in a highly contested part of the Galaxy. We probably wouldn't have Bajorans, Cardassians, the Dominion, or a wormhole, but there could have been some new baddies as well as a return of some TOS races that were under-represented in TNG, but that's just my opinion. Roddenberry might still have gone for an African-American commander for the station or possibly a woman...

Series IV. Probably would have been another starship-based series, but I doubt it would have gone the "lost in space" route. It might have been a direct spin-off from Series III, or perhaps something about a lone Human Starfleet officer aboard a Klingon ship, I dunno...

Series V--good question. It could have been a prequel/sequel series set between TOS and TNG or perhaps a 24th-Century series that doesn't feature Starfleet prominently in it and more down-to-earth/everyman characters that don't wear uniforms...

The movies:
Star Trek VI--Unchanged.

Star Trek VII--Kirk wouldn't have died and the Enterprise-D wouldn't have been destroyed (it would have been heavily damaged and redesigned for the next movie instead).

Star Trek VIII--Probably unchanged, except that it would have featured a refitted/redesigned Enterprise-D...

Star Trek IX--Your guess is as good as mine, but there probably wouldn't have been any mention of boobs getting firmer...

Star Trek X--Ditto, but I somehow doubt there would have been any clones or Remans involved for some reason...

Star Trek IX--A new 25th-Century Starship Enterprise and crew (my tiny lil' wish)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Roddenberry's loosening control of TNG is what made the improvements in TNG after the first two seasons possible.

 

[Squiggy]

Agreed. For being such a visionary, his vision was very dated to circa 1969. Personally, I think S1 and 2 of TNG have aged 2-3 more than S3-S7.

 

[I am not Spock]

Trek history as we know it would not have changed much at all, IMO. As has been said, he wasn't involved much with TNG post-season two (which is coincidentally when it started to get good). As for the movies, wasn't he just a 'consultant' on everything post-TMP? As in, he could say whatever he liked, but the suits didn't have to listen to him?

 

[trevanian]

It'd be a more interesting thread to think about if Gene Coon had lived ... would he have been involved in TMP or phase 2, and would he have been involved with post TMP? Geez, I think Coon could probably have even fixed TMP, assuming it was actually fixable. either that or he'd've said, this is horseshit, JM Lucas already did CHANGELING.

 

[JNG]

I think he was using the Utopian element like a broad alegbraic equation, something to the effect of, if X equals Utopia/Technology, find for "X". Whether you expect humanity to "get there" or not, by setting the equation this way, you get that kind of tone to the stories. The "finding for X" takes place through the humanist elements of the stories.

Well said.

I think Roddenberry's creative aims changed over his career and that there was greatness in a lot of his work, and thus I'd say that trying to pigeonhole it and say "he'd have said no Dominion War" and so forth is not necessarily so. He cocreated the Borg and signed off on a continuing struggle against them...heck, he put weapons on the Enterprise in the first place. I don't think he would have been completely closed-minded about the dramatic possibilities of the Dominion storyline, but merely would have encouraged that it be executed according to his vision of Trek. (I know many fans question if it should be so, but I think that's a vision of Trek worth hewing to.)

 

[zenophite]

as much as i'd hate to say something positive about Bermaga I'd have to say that if Roddenberry had maintained creative control i think trek would have tanked far earlier than it did

 

[Jack Bauer]

as much as i'd hate to say something positive about Bermaga I'd have to say that if Roddenberry had maintained creative control i think trek would have tanked far earlier than it did

I think under Roddenberry that TNG probably would've ended much sooner and there would've been no more Trek for awhile. Maybe we'd just be getting a new Trek revival series right now instead of a prequel movie.

 

[Arpy]

A Roddenberry-esque DS9, huh?

Yeah, I could see a brand new top-of-the-line Federation space station, commissioned for a job, just like any ship. It'd be one that visually just puts anything else we've seen to shame...the difference between Borg in "Q Who" and FC, between a freighter redressed from an old model and new cruiser for a major power. Like on B5, I'd want the external view abeing in constant flux as different ships are constantly coming and going...transports, freighters, cruisers, visitors...shuttles zooming all around, cargo packages transferring hands, repairs happening...

If there were no wormhole, the station'ed be dead center between opposing factions, so story between the two would always happen or come through it. If not the Cardassians, the baddy could be someone mentioned before but not really gone into - no Klingons or Romulans. Jarada, Breen, Sheliak, Tholians, Gorn, other, new?

I don't think Bashir would have been genetically engineered or that it would be illegal. He'd in Vic's or playing 007, and definitely the Brit would be friends with the Irish O'Brien. Jadzia would be more mysterious and somber as she was early on, not into Klingons. Sisko may or may not have been a family man, but he would be a builder...a brave man and leader who could suffer the slings and arrows of local politics, and galactic, and survive long enough to build something great. He and Jadzia would be closer...and he'd eventually marry Kira, who would not see him as Moses or Jesus. ...In a Kirk-like manner, he'd end the job in physical fusion, and in a Sisko-like one, with mental fusion.

 

[number6]

as much as i'd hate to say something positive about Bermaga...

I just don't get this.

Rick Berman was someone who Bob Justman and GR had taken under their wing and gave them the keys and he gave us 18 years of Star Trek. According to people who worked on Star Trek, who I got to meet this week at VegasCon, the one thing Berman got wrong was being too faithful to GR's vision and not pushing the envelope enough. I think GR would have done similar in that vein, but then I agree that TNG would have never made it past three seasons if GR were in charge.

Brannon Braga wrote some great episodes of Trek over 15 years. Having heard him in interviews and seen him in person, I don't think he's in denial about the good and not so good things he's done.

People want to blame these guys for global warming without a hint of a clue as to what they were and weren't responsible for during their time on Star Trek.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Also, GR was just one man. We're saying "TNG would have run its course sooner if he were in control"....I think the Bird himself would have agreed with that. He seemed thankfully aware of all the wind others put into the sails of his Star Trek shows.

 

[Jax]

Agreed. For being such a visionary, his vision was very dated to circa 1969. Personally, I think S1 and 2 of TNG have aged 2-3 more than S3-S7.

Agree...I love Gene for creating Star Trek but his vision just wasn't upto date and TNG became popular despite of him not because of him.

 

[HRHTheKING]

I dread to think what the Great Fraud Of The Galaxy would have done to DS9.

 

[RandyS]

Considering that Rodenberry was Paramount's third choice to produce TNG (they WERE going to go ahead with the show without him, if they had to), it really doesn't matter wiether he lived or not. Paramount would have eventually shoved him completely in the background, and told Berman to do pretty much what he did.

Would there have been differences? Sure. But we would have ended up with the Trek that we got, maybe just a year or two delayed.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Here's my $0.02.

As great a "Show Starter" as the Bird was, he was nonetheless stuck on "No real conflict between the human crewmembers", and "No prejudice on the main characters' part".

He was royally pissed when he learned that Kirk was initially not going to be Mr. Peace in TUC, or that the captain wasn't sure that he would be able to see beyond David's death.

Therfore... he probably would not have Sisko so internally crushed about the death of his wife, because "In the 24th century, humans just see death as a part of life." He wouldn't have Sisko treat Picard with that angry manner. And I can tell you right now, that he wouldn't let Sisko lie to Vreenak.

Come to think of it, if he had the Bajorans and the wormhole, he would've had the "Prophets" turn out to be a group of con artists, rogue Q, or... a machine!

Jake woudn't get into trouble with Nog so often... Keiko and Miles woudn't argue so much... and Bashir woudn't have lied about his enhancements.

There would be no Coup by Admiral Leyton, and no martial law on Earth... unless it turned out that Leyton "conveniently" was a changeling.

There would be no Maquis... and there certainly would be no Section 31.

In other words... most of what made DS9 so interesting would not have been....

Sorry. I actually liked it when Rick took Trek in a new direction. It's whenever he strained to "return" to the Bird's vision, that his products get less-than-ideal.

 

[trevanian]

as much as i'd hate to say something positive about Bermaga...

I just don't get this.

Rick Berman was someone who Bob Justman and GR had taken under their wing and gave them the keys and he gave us 18 years of Star Trek. According to people who worked on Star Trek, who I got to meet this week at VegasCon, the one thing Berman got wrong was being too faithful to GR's vision and not pushing the envelope enough. I think GR would have done similar in that vein, but then I agree that TNG would have never made it past three seasons if GR were in charge.

Brannon Braga wrote some great episodes of Trek over 15 years. Having heard him in interviews and seen him in person, I don't think he's in denial about the good and not so good things he's done.

People want to blame these guys for global warming without a hint of a clue as to what they were and weren't responsible for during their time on Star Trek.

Don't try to make it sound like only uninformed posters have issues with Berman and co. I've had huge objections to Berman ever since I first read about him, probably in the season 3 analysis published in CINFANTASTIQUE.

Within a couple of years, I had come honestly by my 'he makes the trains run on time' view, and I've seen nothing since to make me reconsider it. In terms of taste and creativity, Berman was appalling in terms of trek, undermining countless episodes with his notion of filmscoring and also waiting WAY too long to embrace vaguely contemporary notions of scriptwriting and filming. Stuff that was in place early on about not taking the camera off sticks, and having to get special permission to use steadicam because the future is a smooth place (Rob Bowman has spoken of this), didn't help define trek, it limited it, pushing it into an increasingly talky format while lots of other shows (good AND bad) were able to do dynamic things with the camera and tell the stories without such a slavish a/b plotting mindset.

I suppose there is plenty to blame Braga for as well, but since it was Berman who elevated Braga, he takes all the blame for that too. He probably takes most of the blame for losing Melinda Snodgrass as well, though I think she had issues with Piller as well (she might be the only writer I admired who seemed to get along with Hurley.)

 

[Navaros]

The more Gene involvement there was, the worse of a Trek product that it was.

Thus, if Gene had lived ,then anything Gene was involved with would have been worse of a Trek product than what ended up getting made.