what happens to the lazy people?

[DevilEyes]

The fact of the matter is that the humans on Star Trek are, by and large, very different from us. Would you say Kirk is greedy? Picard? Janeway, then? They certainly don't seem greedy from my perspective.

And that proves...what? That every single human in the 23rd century is like Kirk, and that every single human in the 24th century is like Picard or Janeway?

They're lead characters, heroes of the show. Of course they're going to be better, braver, more ethical, more honorable than your average person.

And no, it's not a fact of the matter that they're "very different from us". If they were very different from us, it would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for the audience to relate to them. But it is not.

If you mean to say that "we" are greedy, that's not true either, there is no "we". People are different. Some are very greedy, some are less so, some are not at all. Some are brave and some are not, some are honest and some are not, etc. It only stands to reason that humans of the 24th century are different as well. <sarcasm>Unless Federation has some creepy technique how to lobotomize people in order for them all to conform to the concept of the ideal human.</sarcasm>

Do I believe humanity capable of such a transition? Not really. But the premise of the show is that humanity has evolved, that the people of the 24th century are different from us, and it's explicitly stated on many occasions that they've overcome greed, and I assume the explicit mentions of the fact that there is no money in the 24th century are intended to bolster this fact.

The premise is, IMO, that the human society has evolved. Which is possible, and which has actually happened to the human society in real life.

Not that the human race has literally evolved. Trek writers might have shown themselves to be clueless about how evolution works in quite a few episodes, but they would have to be idiots to believe that there can be a significant evolutionary change in any species over a period as short as 400 years. That is just silly and completely implausible.

It may seem implausible to you, but it's actually less implausible than transporters and warp drive, so you shouldn't have much trouble suspending your disbelief.

I beg to differ. It is far, far more implausible than transporters, warp drives, replicators... Heck, it's even less plausible than time travel and alternate universes. We're witnessing the huge technological advancements that happened over periods of just a few decades, and many of the technologies we have today would have looked impossible and almost 'magical' a century ago. But to change the psychological makeup of the entire human race in just a few centuries? Has the human race changed that much in the last several millennia? The societies have changed, the culture and the beliefs and the way of life has changed, but the basic human emotions and motivations?

 

[Doug Otte]

Everyone else has answered the question better, but I was shocked that someone would equate poverty with laziness. That's a pretty naive viewpoint. Do you think that every poor person is just lazy, and not crushed by a combination of health problems, oppressive or ineffectual governments, lack of natural resources, overcrowding, war, religious or racial or cultural oppression, etc. etc.?

Doug

Doug,

If that was the way it came across, it certainly wasn't the way it was intended. My question was how they decided who got what when there were those who didn't want to contribute in any way - this could have applied to anyone regardless of if they were rich or poor before the economic changeover. i dont think my post had the word "poor" in it anywhere.

Thanks for clarifying, data_lover. Yes, the fact that you used the terms "poverty" and "lazy people" in your OP led me to believe that you were conflating the two.

Doug

 

[Penta]

Alternatively, Picard is speaking complete and total bullshit, and people at least work for energy credits.

It's pretty cynical to think that we'll always need some kind of currency. I'll admit it's pretty far-fetched idea, but it's not absolutely loopy. Most of the things I do in my life I do basically because I want to, not because I get paid to- it's not THAT difficult for me to imagine extending that philosophy into a sci-fi premise.

Going without physical currency? Plausible.

Going without any sort of monetary system whatsoever? Not so plausible.

See, the amount of energy in the universe is limited. Law of Conservation of Energy.

Ergo, the amount of energy available to any one person must, even optimistically, therefore also be limited.

Ergo, energy credits. Which is a monetary system.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Going without any sort of monetary system whatsoever? Not so plausible.

See, the amount of energy in the universe is limited. Law of Conservation of Energy.

Ergo, the amount of energy available to any one person must, even optimistically, therefore also be limited.

Ergo, energy credits. Which is a monetary system.

Penta the total amount of energy availbe over the course of expected life of a space fairing civilazation makes such speculation of resource depletion pointless. Do you think that Sol is not putting out enough energy for Earth every single second of every day? 99.99999999+% of its output is broadcast into the vast void of space without ever hitting us.

Robots which build and maintain robots could easily harvest hyrdogen and anti-hydrogen from the myriad of useless star systems that surround us.

These would be cooler dimmer stars that would not be of interest to settlement.


Many replicated goods and foodstuffs really would be without cost in any meaningful sense.

 

[John200]

I always thought that the Star Trek future would be ideal for lazy people.

And I can be pretty lazy sometimes.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Probably this or Playstation XII

 

[Anji]

I don't think it's so crazy to dream of a world where there is no struggle for money. And the fact that that struggle would eliminate hunger, want and greed.

The idea that no human being would suffer because of lack of his/her needs. I don't think that's crazy. I wish for it.

 

[maneth]

Yeah, me too. I also think that most people would want to contribute in some way. Things would be very different, though, if you could tell that nasty boss of yours to go to hell, because you wouldn't need that job to survive, or even to live reasonably decently by our standards.

Certainly, if I had enough money to support myself for my foreseeable lifespan (some 60 years maximum left given that I'm nearly 40 and none of my grandparents lived past 85), I'd quit my job tomorrow and try to do something creative. Like writing that novel whose outline's been spooking in my head for years. Right now, with a kid to raise and the prospect of returning to work looming large on my horizon, I don't really have the energy for it...

 

[BillJ]

Where do you think the matter for the replicators comes from? Think Soylent Green.