What Happens After Death

[Gryffindorian]

I've always been fascinated with astronomy and cosmology. And to quote one of the scientists from How te Universe Works (or Through the Wormhole): "We are all stardust," born of supernovae that created the spark of life. So ashes to ashes, stardust to stardust ...

It was Sagan who famously said “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

And this is, I guess, why I don't personally understand religion. And I am speaking in very broad terms here -- I know what follows does not apply to all religions or all believers: I can understand how religion is likely to have evolved, but I don't understand the drive to believe. Isn't the natural world enough? Isn't it beautiful, bizarre, curious, and profound enough on its own? Why must we cling to a supernatural, when there is so much wonder yet to be understood. To me, our habit of "projecting our own nature onto nature," to quote Sagan once more, seems trivializing, and it is the height of arrogance to imagine that it was all created just for us.

Fear of what comes after. The fear of death can be a powerful motivator to believe that there is something beyond this life, that no, you don't have to end. That is the basis for many religions. The trappings were added later.

I would like to add that myths were conceived by ancient civilizations to make sense of the world and phenomena around them - life, death, birth, sunrise, sunset, light and darkness, etc. If early humans had the knowledge and understanding of everything that we do now, I doubt there would've been any use for religions at all. Yet the belief in a higher power is so ancient and is such a strong driving force that religion has become a way of life for many people all over the world. And I don't think it's going to disappear anytime soon, unless an asteroid suddenly happens to wipe humans off the face of the earth.

 

[Emher]

I've always been fascinated with astronomy and cosmology. And to quote one of the scientists from How the Universe Works (or Through the Wormhole): "We are all stardust," born of supernovae that created the spark of life. So ashes to ashes, stardust to stardust ...

It was Sagan who famously said “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

And this is, I guess, why I don't personally understand religion. And I am speaking in very broad terms here -- I know what follows does not apply to all religions or all believers: I can understand how religion is likely to have evolved, but I don't understand the drive to believe. Isn't the natural world enough? Isn't it beautiful, bizarre, curious, and profound enough on its own? Why must we cling to a supernatural, when there is so much wonder yet to be understood. To me, our habit of "projecting our own nature onto nature," to quote Sagan once more, seems trivializing, and it is the height of arrogance to imagine that it was all created just for us.

THIS. So much this. I think I was all off of seven or eight years old when I started going trough the science section in the school's library. I had already stopped believing in any kind of almighty God a year or so before, but I didn't really hit me why until I started going trough these books. It's because reality is more wondrous then the most beautiful fiction. Because the things we know already are so fantastic, how fantastic will not the things we are yet to discover be? What things might we not yet learn from the universe around us?

Look, I get that faith is something important to people. I agree that it is. But to me there's a stark difference between faith and religion. I have faith. Faith in my family, in myself at the best of days, and while it may sound naive ad optimistic, that there are good in many people. But the things that have been done and are being done in the name of religion frighten me.

Wow, that got real heavy. Conclusion: openness and discovery good, backward striving and hate bad. Oh and I should just get a tattoo of a "pale blue dot" and see how many get it.

I guess I sort of get that. I mean, I really wish there were an afterlife. But I wish I had great legs and a billion dollars too.

I kinda don't. I mean, yes, it's a fascinating thought and I would in all honesty want to the loved ones that are lost from me again. But that would somehow, to me, diminish this struggle that my current life is. Which sounds a bit fuzzy, I know, but that's how I feel.

Also, I never got to that when me met since you where so tired and didn't want to be all flirtatiously annoying, but honey, there ain't a thing wrong with your body

 

[iguana_tonante]

I've always been fascinated with astronomy and cosmology.

If I had a Euro for every time I heard this, followed by some not-entirely accurate statement about space science, I'll be... well, not really a billionaire, but a comfortably wealthy man.

Please do enlighten me. I don't quite recall what Professor Kaku said on the science show, so I was paraphrasing.

Well, I was mostly joking, but calling the synthesis of heavier elements in supernovae as "the spark of life" is sure poetical, but hardly accurate.

 

[Amaris]

It was Sagan who famously said “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

And this is, I guess, why I don't personally understand religion. And I am speaking in very broad terms here -- I know what follows does not apply to all religions or all believers: I can understand how religion is likely to have evolved, but I don't understand the drive to believe. Isn't the natural world enough? Isn't it beautiful, bizarre, curious, and profound enough on its own? Why must we cling to a supernatural, when there is so much wonder yet to be understood. To me, our habit of "projecting our own nature onto nature," to quote Sagan once more, seems trivializing, and it is the height of arrogance to imagine that it was all created just for us.

Fear of what comes after. The fear of death can be a powerful motivator to believe that there is something beyond this life, that no, you don't have to end. That is the basis for many religions. The trappings were added later.

I would like to add that myths were conceived by ancient civilizations to make sense of the world and phenomena around them - life, death, birth, sunrise, sunset, light and darkness, etc. If early humans had the knowledge and understanding of everything that we do now, I doubt there would've been any use for religions at all. Yet the belief in a higher power is so ancient and is such a strong driving force that religion has become a way of life for many people all over the world. And I don't think it's going to disappear anytime soon, unless an asteroid suddenly happens to wipe humans off the face of the earth.

This is true. As someone who has grown up in a very fundamentalist family, I can verify that statement about religion being a way of life. Not believing is a completely foreign concept; it's the same as not breathing. I remember telling my mother that I was agnostic, and her response was "you still believe in Jesus, right?"

It's like that old joke, where a priest asks a man, "Are you Catholic or Protestant?" The man replies, "I'm an atheist."
A moment later the priest responds, "Okay, then, so are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

For many it seems to be a lifestyle, where every decision, every moment of life, centers around the concept of what a god or gods would want, and how their plan is supposed to play out for you.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And this is, I guess, why I don't personally understand religion. And I am speaking in very broad terms here -- I know what follows does not apply to all religions or all believers: I can understand how religion is likely to have evolved, but I don't understand the drive to believe. Isn't the natural world enough? Isn't it beautiful, bizarre, curious, and profound enough on its own? Why must we cling to a supernatural, when there is so much wonder yet to be understood. To me, our habit of "projecting our own nature onto nature," to quote Sagan once more, seems trivializing, and it is the height of arrogance to imagine that it was all created just for us.

I, too, am speaking broadly and not to all religions and all believers: in my experience, those who cling to religion place a higher value on social standing and conformity than they do on understanding and discovery. To most people, the value of a concept is measured solely in terms of its utility to immediately serve people with a minimum of disruption. Frankly, I think most people are simply happier going with the flow and participating in what their families do and have always done than they would be facing the stark uncertainty that follows from what is actually known. Their goal is not understanding. Rather, it is stability.

 

[bbjeg]

I was born Christian but after watching TNG as a kid I got into science. I started reading a lot and decided to read the bible (a good read from an mythological stand point) and found many contradictions. I went to my pastor, asked 'How would the bible explain dinosaur bones?', he replied 'The devil put them there to test your faith.', where I replied 'The devil has a TIME-MACHINE!?!', and my faith fell apart after that. As an agnostic, I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science. I'm not searching because of fear, in fact I don't fear death (and would rather see it coming), just curious to see if anyone is close to finding the equation for reality. I won't say their isn't a force out there keeping the universe in balance but even science can only go so far in explaining things.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I went to my pastor, asked 'How would the bible explain dinosaur bones?', he replied 'The devil put them there to test your faith.'

Your pastor was an idiot.

 

[bbjeg]

^That's what I thought and I was young too, 12-14 years old.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I've always been fascinated with astronomy and cosmology. And to quote one of the scientists from How the Universe Works (or Through the Wormhole): "We are all stardust," born of supernovae that created the spark of life. So ashes to ashes, stardust to stardust ...

It was Sagan who famously said “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

And this is, I guess, why I don't personally understand religion. And I am speaking in very broad terms here -- I know what follows does not apply to all religions or all believers: I can understand how religion is likely to have evolved, but I don't understand the drive to believe. Isn't the natural world enough? Isn't it beautiful, bizarre, curious, and profound enough on its own? Why must we cling to a supernatural, when there is so much wonder yet to be understood. To me, our habit of "projecting our own nature onto nature," to quote Sagan once more, seems trivializing, and it is the height of arrogance to imagine that it was all created just for us.

My kids recently asked what everything is made of. They wanted to know what the actual "substance" of everything was. I explained that all the elements of which everything is built came from stars (except for hydrogen.) I had to explain it a couple times before they really got it, but once they did, they thought it was the coolest thing in the world. "You mean we're made out of stars?!"

"Not just you, but everything around you! We're all made of stars!"

"That's so cool!"

 

[Gryffindorian]

If I had a Euro for every time I heard this, followed by some not-entirely accurate statement about space science, I'll be... well, not really a billionaire, but a comfortably wealthy man.

Please do enlighten me. I don't quite recall what Professor Kaku said on the science show, so I was paraphrasing.

Well, I was mostly joking, but calling the synthesis of heavier elements in supernovae as "the spark of life" is sure poetical, but hardly accurate.

You're right. I'm assuming what some scientists meant by the spark of life is that space debris from the explosion of a dying star could eventually lead to the formation of planets, such as Earth, that could sustain life. Meteors and asteroids are believed to carry building blocks of life, but that's just a theory.

Fear of what comes after. The fear of death can be a powerful motivator to believe that there is something beyond this life, that no, you don't have to end. That is the basis for many religions. The trappings were added later.

I would like to add that myths were conceived by ancient civilizations to make sense of the world and phenomena around them - life, death, birth, sunrise, sunset, light and darkness, etc. If early humans had the knowledge and understanding of everything that we do now, I doubt there would've been any use for religions at all. Yet the belief in a higher power is so ancient and is such a strong driving force that religion has become a way of life for many people all over the world. And I don't think it's going to disappear anytime soon, unless an asteroid suddenly happens to wipe humans off the face of the earth.

This is true. As someone who has grown up in a very fundamentalist family, I can verify that statement about religion being a way of life. Not believing is a completely foreign concept; it's the same as not breathing. I remember telling my mother that I was agnostic, and her response was "you still believe in Jesus, right?"

It's like that old joke, where a priest asks a man, "Are you Catholic or Protestant?" The man replies, "I'm an atheist."
A moment later the priest responds, "Okay, then, so are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

For many it seems to be a lifestyle, where every decision, every moment of life, centers around the concept of what a god or gods would want, and how their plan is supposed to play out for you.

I grew up in a religious culture. I was born and raised in a predominantly Catholic country in southeastern Asia, where I still remember the amalgamated traditions and customs of a devout Christian society. Half of my family was Catholic; the other half, independent congregationalist.

And believe me, I've questioned my faith many, many times, but the belief in a higher power is often strongly embedded in the psyche; it's almost hardwired (at least for people who were brought up in religious homes).

 

[Lindley]

I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science.

I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.

 

[bbjeg]

I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.

At a quick glance I may have been practicing Buddhism without knowing it. Is their a Buddhist religious doctrine (equivalent to the bible)?

 

[JarodRussell]

"You mean we're made out of stars?!"

"Not just you, but everything around you! We're all made of stars!"

"That's so cool!"

Might be a way to get them to eat vegetables. Concentrated starlight.

 

[Captrek]

Meteors and asteroids are believed to carry building blocks of life, but that's just a theory.

It is established fact that some such objects carry organic molecules like amino acids. The “just a theory” part is whether this contributed to the development of life on Earth.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.

 

[Amaris]

I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.

I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.

 

[JarodRussell]

This is like the only argument where you have to kill the other to prove your point.

 

[thestrangequark]

I looked into other religions, read a few other religious books, traced back the histories of religion (the Egyptian deity Horus debunked Jesus for me), and couldn't find anything that worked along with science.

I'm not an expert but I think Buddhism might.

I actually don't believe that religion and science are necessarily opposed at all. I know many people who are both religious and rational. One can be a Christian and still understand that the bible is a combination of ancient social codes, metaphor, myth, poetry, and history, and not literal truth. One can "debunk" Jesus as you said (not just with Horus, there is also a Greek god who bears an uncanny resemblance to the Christian savior, though his name has slipped my mind), but still believe in what he stands for, still believe that the actual people on whom these myths are based were endowed with some holiness or sanctity. Fundamentalism and science are indeed mutually exclusive, but not religion on its own.

There are aspects of some people's religions that are falsifiable, of course: We can test whether incendiary prayer works (and we have, and it doesn't). We can test if a spirit leaves the body in the form of energy upon death (and we have, and it doesn't). But we cannot test the claim that there was a creator, who created the universe to evolve as if there were no creator. We can't disprove an unfalsifiable god; so long as one can phrase one's beliefs as unfalsifiable claims, unfalsifiable claims remain just that: not within the realm of science to answer.

Again, I don't think that just because something cannot be disproved is a good enough reason to believe in it -- going back to Carl Sagan's invisible, silent, heatless dragon in the garage -- but I do think that the claimed mutual exclusivity between religion and science is untenable, and I think that building such a wall only serves to further the misguided notion that science is a belief system or just another worldview, rather than simply a tool to solve problems.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.

I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.

Then allow me to also quote 7 of 9: "You will fail."

 

[Amaris]

I believe that when a person dies, they either go to Heaven or Hell. I don't mean to ruin all this scientific talk, but the OP did ask what we believe happens after death.

I'm afraid you're now under the watchful eye of the atheists. We've put a bounty on your head. Resistance is futile.

Then allow me to also quote 7 of 9: "You will fail."

Allow me to quote Hikaru Sulu from STiD: "If you test me, you will fail."