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What happened to the "improved" Voyager technology?

Answer to the question in the thread title:

The same thing that happened to Romulan Ale being made legal. The same thing that happened to Worf being an Ambassador. The same thing that happened to DS9 itself as a series.

It was all rendered to not have ever existed by careless and/or incompetent and/or arrogant writing.
 
3D Master said:
Tristan said:
Well given the Enterprise-E didn't wipe the floor with the Scimitar in one second with one transphasic torpedo, I suspect the conscientious timecops from the 29th century popped in immediately after Voyager's return and said "Yeahhhh... I'm sure you'd have loved to sink your teeth into all this wonderbrass tech, but no... Huh?

Yes?

Ah, yeahhhh... we're kinda from the 29th Century and, as such, we dictate what the fuck goes on with the space-time continuum... well, provided the 31st or 33rd Century timecops don't pop in and tell us otherwise. Hell, they must have they same problem with timecops from the 40th century... well, presuming there *is* a 40th century. Anyway, they'd tell the same story we've just told you bu... hey, you're going off on a tangent here!

Tech = not yours!

*YOINK*

Have a nice century. :)"

Simple.

And if they come back, they find the Federation gone, and the Borg rule instead.

The only tiny hell of a chance the Federation has against a Borg that next time around will have adapted to the new tech, is whatever they can develop from that new tech, somehow advancing over 30 years of broad technological development in just a few short years to get weapons and energy production 31 years ahead of the time.

Exactly.
SF is capable advancing over 30 years of techs actually.
They have a working system on Voyager and the crew understands how it functions.
The armor was the only thing that was assimilated.
With 7's help, the feds would be able to fix that flaw and with various other tech Voyager brought back create even better defensive/offensive measures.

The Borg btw ... they are far from gone, but what Voyager did to them will most likely set them back by some time, giving the Feds a window of opportunity to prepare.

But if the writers are any indication, they will promptly ignore all of that and return to previous things as if those events never happened.
 
-If the 31st century timecops (who only show up when someone from their own time is involved as far as I can recall) was going to take the tech they would've done so before VGR ever used it.

-Ship armour is not like body armour...it's like ship armour. If it can hold back the borg and the future klingons, it can hold back a romulan ship.

It simply disappeared back into the poorly written fanfic kwelness vortex from whence it came and will never be mentioned OS again. Enjoy!
 
Deks said:
3D Master said:
Tristan said:
Well given the Enterprise-E didn't wipe the floor with the Scimitar in one second with one transphasic torpedo, I suspect the conscientious timecops from the 29th century popped in immediately after Voyager's return and said "Yeahhhh... I'm sure you'd have loved to sink your teeth into all this wonderbrass tech, but no... Huh?

Yes?

Ah, yeahhhh... we're kinda from the 29th Century and, as such, we dictate what the fuck goes on with the space-time continuum... well, provided the 31st or 33rd Century timecops don't pop in and tell us otherwise. Hell, they must have they same problem with timecops from the 40th century... well, presuming there *is* a 40th century. Anyway, they'd tell the same story we've just told you bu... hey, you're going off on a tangent here!

Tech = not yours!

*YOINK*

Have a nice century. :)"

Simple.

And if they come back, they find the Federation gone, and the Borg rule instead.

The only tiny hell of a chance the Federation has against a Borg that next time around will have adapted to the new tech, is whatever they can develop from that new tech, somehow advancing over 30 years of broad technological development in just a few short years to get weapons and energy production 31 years ahead of the time.

Exactly.
SF is capable advancing over 30 years of techs actually.
They have a working system on Voyager and the crew understands how it functions.
The armor was the only thing that was assimilated.
With 7's help, the feds would be able to fix that flaw and with various other tech Voyager brought back create even better defensive/offensive measures.

No, they will not be able to do that at all. Voyager only got weapons technology. All the scientific advancements, the subspace understanding, the hyperspace understandings, the power generation improvements, any transwarp technology perfected over time, was NOT part of it, and thus they'll have to get all of that, before they can improve significantly on the weapons. The Borg, have no such trouble.

The Borg btw ... they are far from gone, but what Voyager did to them will most likely set them back by some time, giving the Feds a window of opportunity to prepare.

No, most likely it makes them even more powerful than ever. Where before, species might not have been assimilated because of:

a. a new weapon tech - having dealt with future Janeway's tech, means they might be ready, thus assimilating that species and their technology into the collective - a species powerful enough to withstand the Borg previously.

b. where before there was no transwarp conduit nearby and the Borg might have ignored them, with the destruction of the transwarp hub, the Borg will switch to any other transwarp technology they have assimilated that requires no hub or pre-existed conduits (like the Quantum Slipstream drive) and now they can drop out of transwarp anywhere they want to making a side trip interesting.

The Borg got a boost.
 
While it was not mentioned, it's possible that admiral Janeway downloaded the shuttles database into Voyagers computer before departing.

She did give the crew access to examine the shuttle, and quite frankly she would be dumb not to download the database before going to face the queen.
Admiral Janeway knew she would be assimilated because that was the only way to deliver the pathogen.
Downloading her database into Voyagers computer would be a safety precaution.

The Borg as was evidenced on screen were in fact dealt with the crippling blow.
Yes they gained the armor technology, but Janeway would have had to make safety precautions to limit the Collective in gaining too much info.

One other thing ...
As I mentioned, Voyager got the future techs and admiral J. had to brief them on using the said technologies.
Torres along the remainder of the crew had to review the advances in power generation and number of other things you mentioned from the shuttles database in order to power the armor to begin with.
I find it unlikely the system would be less intensive without modifications to the Warp core and a number of other systems.

Nothing was mentioned on how long it took for the crew to outfit Voyager with the technologies admiral brought back.
So that is still in the air and remains to be seen.

Also ... 7 of 9 understands everything there is to be known about the Borg assimilation process and how to counteract it, plus the crew had numerous encounters with the Borg forcing them to get familiar with their technologies as well.

If anything if the Borg return, and IF SF did their homework, then the playing field should be somewhat a bit more balanced for the Feds.

You are forgetting that Voy has numerous other info on techs at their disposal from the DQ races that were even more powerful than them.

SF has a chance to level the playing field, ... the only question remains to be seen if they will use it or not.

The Borg have been dealt a crippling blow regardless of how you look at it.
The central unimatrix was destroyed taking the queen this time with it, and the collective experienced a breakdown in their communications that brought chaos to everything through the neurolitic pathogen.

We don't even know if they adapted to the virus at all.
And if they did, then it's a question of when they will make an appearance.

If Nemesis is any indication, the Borg have not returned just yet, and that was 2 years after Voyager got home.
I just hope SF is at the very least doing something in the BG (or should I say, the writers will pay attention to it and not just disregard it).
 
Deks said:
While it was not mentioned, it's possible that admiral Janeway downloaded the shuttles database into Voyagers computer before departing.

It was more likely it was deleted.

She did give the crew access to examine the shuttle, and quite frankly she would be dumb not to download the database before going to face the queen.
Admiral Janeway knew she would be assimilated because that was the only way to deliver the pathogen.
Downloading her database into Voyagers computer would be a safety precaution.

No, deleting it, would be the safety precaution, since if the plan fails and the Borg assimilate Voyager, they would still have all of the knowledge of 30 years of history.

The Borg as was evidenced on screen were in fact dealt with the crippling blow.

As evidenced on screen, their transwarp conduits were messed with. To exactly what extent, and what it really does to the Borg, has NOT been shown. We know for a certain fact that Borg have assimilated the Quantum Slipstream drive - as a result, they don't need anything from the transwarp conduits at all. Trust me, what happened in Endgame isn't going to set the Borg back, it'll only make them stronger.

Yes they gained the armor technology, but Janeway would have had to make safety precautions to limit the Collective in gaining too much info.

Which means, she SHOULD have blown the shuttle and her future self sky high the moment future Janeway contacted Voyager and be done with it.

One other thing ...
As I mentioned, Voyager got the future techs and admiral J. had to brief them on using the said technologies.
Torres along the remainder of the crew had to review the advances in power generation and number of other things you mentioned from the shuttles database in order to power the armor to begin with.
I find it unlikely the system would be less intensive without modifications to the Warp core and a number of other systems.

It's a thick unfolding shell, it doesn't need power apart from the unfolding event itself, which is nothing compared to warp the fabric of space and time. The transphasic torpedo is simply a photon torpedo with a phase cloak.

Nothing was mentioned on how long it took for the crew to outfit Voyager with the technologies admiral brought back.
So that is still in the air and remains to be seen.

Which doesn't matter.

Also ... 7 of 9 understands everything there is to be known about the Borg assimilation process and how to counteract it, plus the crew had numerous encounters with the Borg forcing them to get familiar with their technologies as well.

Doesn't matter, and is not true. 7 of 9 is but one individual, she cannot encompass all of the data and capabilities of the entire Collective, countless trillions of individuals working together with technology in one collective mind. Further, even IF 7 of 9 encompassed all of the Borg knowledge, that would only be up until the moment she was disconnected. Anything the Borg learned, developed, or assimilated afterward, is outside of her knowledge and ability.

If anything if the Borg return, and IF SF did their homework, then the playing field should be somewhat a bit more balanced for the Feds.

No, whatever advantage they had, would be gone.

You are forgetting that Voy has numerous other info on techs at their disposal from the DQ races that were even more powerful than them.

No, they don't. The few things they do have, won't help against the Borg.

SF has a chance to level the playing field, ... the only question remains to be seen if they will use it or not.

No, they don't. They've been given a death sentence. Whatever they could have come up with, the Borg are now ready for it because they got a preview.

The Borg have been dealt a crippling blow regardless of how you look at it.

No, the Borg haven been made stronger - it's just that everyone is too arrogant and too sure of themselves and too underestimating the Borg to realize it.

The central unimatrix was destroyed taking the queen this time with it, and the collective experienced a breakdown in their communications that brought chaos to everything through the neurolitic pathogen.

The Queen has been killed before, and did nothing to slow down the Borg. We also know from Unimatrix Zero that the Queen is absolutely nothing. It's not in control at all, Borg Drones get to deny her wishes, she's not one with the collective at all. Which makes her nothing but a construct, a test, an experiment. The actual collective, is a totally different entity, and much more powerful.

We don't even know if they adapted to the virus at all.
And if they did, then it's a question of when they will make an appearance.

Of course, the Borg adapted. It's what the Borg do.

If Nemesis is any indication, the Borg have not returned just yet, and that was 2 years after Voyager got home.
I just hope SF is at the very least doing something in the BG (or should I say, the writers will pay attention to it and not just disregard it).

The Borg haven't returned in years after the last attack either, it is no indication about how the Borg is doing. Also notice, that the Borg really have no interest in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants and the Federation. If the Borg truly wanted the assimilation of the Federation, they could do so without virtually any opposition: send 2,000 cubes instead of one. A hell, send ten, that should do the trick just as well.

But they don't bother, because the Federation isn't worth the effort.
 
Actually, it has been shown to what extend the collective was damaged.

Fact:
The entire TW network was obliterated for one thing.
Unimatrix 1 was obliterated entirely along with the Queen and who knows how many ships.

The Collective was damaged in it's operations disrupting Queens control over the manifolds and Collective functions overall.
Once she assimilated the pathogen the collective itself became infected.

She only retained contact with one Sphere which was ordered to destroy Voyager (which resulted in a failure).

Yes I understand that the Borg assimilated the QS technology, but there is no guarantee their knowledge and information they had was not damaged by the pathogen.

The pathogen introduced chaos to order.
It was successful.
We don't know if the Borg eventually adapted to the pathogen because 1 cube got infected by it before that and the Borg never came for that one.
Reason ?
Perhaps they were incapable to adapt to it.
Yes it's possible that they could have found a way around it by the time of Endgame, but the virus dealt a good deal of damage.

7's knowledge from what we know is only 2 years behind the Collective's (since she was in the collective during Dark Frontier and as evidenced collected a vast amount of data during that time).
The principles of assimilation procedure would hardly change in any large time frame.
7 knows how it's done and can find a way to undo it.
She said she did not exactly encompass the knowledge of 10000 species in her head (prior to Dark Frontier) but at the same time in Think Thank, she was praised because she contained the sum of all knowledge from the Borg (which she never debunked).

As for the database from the future being deleted.
Unlikely.
Voyager can easily delete it's files if danger arises, so if the database was copied, it's intact.
Janeway would only resort to deleting it probably if she knew there was no way out and all options failed (which lucky for her never happened).

In regards to the armor being light on energy.
Fat chance on that happening since it involves combination of transporter and replicator technology (2 systems that are very energy intensive to begin with).
It has to involve replication if the armor is expected to be re-deployed on 100% after it's been previously damaged.
So examination of power generation and various other advances of the next 26 years is a must.

The Borg only got a 'preview' when it came to the Transphasic torpedoes and Armor.
The armor they assimilated, torpedoes were not.

And transphasic torpedoes HAD to be much more powerful from a standard photon torpedo with a phase cloak if 1 is expected to annihilate a cube.

1 regular photon torpedo damaged a Borg sphere that exploded on the inside of the ship.

A transphasic torpedo probably uses phasing systems much more advanced than what the Pegasus had, and a warhead which has to be capable of delivering an explosion numerous times larger than a regular photon torpedo.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree that the Borg could assimilate the entire galaxy if they wanted to by sending enough forces that wouldn't even put a dent if they lost them by any means.
But their interest in the Federation is evident.
At least they were portrayed like that in Voyager through the Queen (which was introduced by FC movie).
We have no reason to think the Queen had no real control over the collective when in fact she was portrayed as she did.
It also could be the collective wanted to put a show for others, but for them, that would be irrelevant.

I don't underestimate the collective and if anything they would return much dangerous than ever, but at the same time, the Feds would have to find a way to deal with them if they were to survive into the 31st century (which they do).
 
Deks said:
Actually, it has been shown to what extend the collective was damaged.

No, the opposite.

Fact:
The entire TW network was obliterated for one thing.

Never shown, only that one hub, and even if it's true, it doesn't matter. The Borg, if they don't consider rebuilding it useful, will simply switch technologies.

Unimatrix 1 was obliterated entirely along with the Queen and who knows how many ships.[/queen]

AGAIN, the queen has been destroyed before, it doesn't matter. One unimatrix out of countless thousands, all assimilated planets and ships means absolutely nothing to Borg.

The Collective was damaged in it's operations disrupting Queens control over the manifolds and Collective functions overall.

AGAIN: the Queen HAS NO control over the collective whatsoever. Drones can choose not answer her in Unimatrix Zero, which means she has no control over the collective at all.

Once she assimilated the pathogen the collective itself became infected.

Not possible. A pathogen is not a computer virus, it's a physical virus. A physical virus requires physical access to systems to get places. Unless the Borg for some ridiculous reason decided to beam this pathogen around, they could not be affected. This does not show an affection, this shows the Borg shunting an affected section of the Collective for security reasons.

She only retained contact with one Sphere which was ordered to destroy Voyager (which resulted in a failure).

Again, the Queen has no control over the collective. She's nothing but an experiment. The Sphere is the only ship of the section that the Borg shunted that she could contact.

Yes I understand that the Borg assimilated the QS technology, but there is no guarantee their knowledge and information they had was not damaged by the pathogen.

The pathogen did not spread around the collective.

The pathogen introduced chaos to order.
It was successful.
We don't know if the Borg eventually adapted to the pathogen because 1 cube got infected by it before that and the Borg never came for that one.
Reason ?
Perhaps they were incapable to adapt to it.
Yes it's possible that they could have found a way around it by the time of Endgame, but the virus dealt a good deal of damage.

The Borg are not affected by the pathogen, only a small section, a section they shunted for security reasons until they understood the nature of what was affecting them, to prevent any potential spread. To the Queen this only appeared as the collective disintegrating, but it didn't obviously, a pathogen is a physical construct, it cannot move through information signals.

7's knowledge from what we know is only 2 years behind the Collective's (since she was in the collective during Dark Frontier and as evidenced collected a vast amount of data during that time).
The principles of assimilation procedure would hardly change in any large time frame.
7 knows how it's done and can find a way to undo it.
She said she did not exactly encompass the knowledge of 10000 species in her head (prior to Dark Frontier) but at the same time in Think Thank, she was praised because she contained the sum of all knowledge from the Borg (which she never debunked).

It does not matter. Everything 7 knows, the Borg know. Everything the Borg know, 7 however does not know. Just because she didn't deny it, doesn't mean it's true. Whatever she can figure out to prevent assimilation, the Borg will adapt. That's what they do. They are a collective, she's just an individual, they'll change to overcome it.

As for the database from the future being deleted.
Unlikely.
Voyager can easily delete it's files if danger arises, so if the database was copied, it's intact.
Janeway would only resort to deleting it probably if she knew there was no way out and all options failed (which lucky for her never happened).

If that's what Voyager's crew things, it just show they're idiots. You do not take such changes with the Borg. One slip up, one moment not recognizing the danger, and Borg will have it all.

In regards to the armor being light on energy.
Fat chance on that happening since it involves combination of transporter and replicator technology (2 systems that are very energy intensive to begin with).

No, it doesn't. Even if it did, it matters not. Replicating stuff is still piss easy compared to warping space and time. It's still only a momentary use of power in a manner used all but continuously already. It has no effect on Voyager's energy capabilities. Once deployed, the armor requires no energy, it's simply there. And that is of course, assuming it even requires replicator technology to begin with.

It has to involve replication if the armor is expected to be re-deployed on 100% after it's been previously damaged.
So examination of power generation and various other advances of the next 26 years is a must.

No, it isn't, replicating stuff is no trouble at all for Voyager.

The Borg only got a 'preview' when it came to the Transphasic torpedoes and Armor.
The armor they assimilated, torpedoes were not.

And future Janeway was sure the Borg would adapt, hence her telling to present Janeway she shouldn't waste time and hurry before the weapons became useless. Not only were the Borg expected to adapt, they were expected to adapt at any time.

And transphasic torpedoes HAD to be much more powerful from a standard photon torpedo with a phase cloak if 1 is expected to annihilate a cube.

:lol: Wrong. A photon torpedoes has a maximum yield of 64 MT. That's a vaporization radius of several kilometers, and a blast radius many more that. A cube is only 3 by 3 by 3 kilometers. Detonate one inside a cube, having bypassed the shields, will instantly reduce a cube to nothing.

1 regular photon torpedo damaged a Borg sphere that exploded on the inside of the ship.

Coming from the outside, not being truly inside it.

A transphasic torpedo probably uses phasing systems much more advanced than what the Pegasus had, and a warhead which has to be capable of delivering an explosion numerous times larger than a regular photon torpedo.

Nope. Maximum yield of a photon torpedo is enough, doesn't even need the yield of quantum torpedo to do it. And whether it is more advanced or not, doesn't matter: like future Janeway already said, it was not advanced enough, the Borg will adapt.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree that the Borg could assimilate the entire galaxy if they wanted to by sending enough forces that wouldn't even put a dent if they lost them by any means.
But their interest in the Federation is evident.
At least they were portrayed like that in Voyager through the Queen (which was introduced by FC movie).

The Queen is an insane individual, not the collective. To the Collective, the Federation is no more than an interesting testing ground - after all, the Federation is essentially them - a collective of species and technology highly adaptable that will able to find a weakness and exploit it, allowing the Borg to plug it, and be that much stronger facing an actual threat.

We have no reason to think the Queen had no real control over the collective when in fact she was portrayed as she did.
It also could be the collective wanted to put a show for others, but for them, that would be irrelevant.

No, she was portrayed as having no control over the collective and even individual drones at all. This is a consequence of what the Queen is supposed to be; not controlling, but BEING the collective. Therefor, she would never have to ask any drone any question, simply take the information from its knowledge. Yet, she spent torturing drones in order to get them to answer her verbally. So not only could she not take the information from the drone's brains, she couldn't even order it to answer. As a result, we know she has no control at all, she just has the illusion of control. After all, the only way a queen did not truly have full control of the collective, is if the collective did not let her have it, which means all that she can do, and all that she can't do, comes directly from the collective; she's nothing but a slave, a drone, albeit a more unique one.

Further, Unimatrix Zero shows something very interesting. Vastly different species from vastly different sections and environments of the galaxy, all had the same "mutation" in their genes to "create" Unimatrix Zero. Well, there's a problem. A mutation is either artificial or natural. A natural mutations comes through evolution. For a mutation to occur and remain, it would have to have been an interesting adaption to the environment. So, to have the exact same mutation happen in all of these vastly different species and from different environments, one must find a commonality throughout all of them, to produce the coincidence of the exact same mutations. There is only commonality: the Borg. They were assimilated. Assimilation is no environment - it produces no evolution, and no mutation - unless the Collective WANTED that mutation, and created it artificially. The Borg Collective CREATED the drones with the mutation, and thus CREATED Unimatrix Zero. Yet the Queen has no knowledge of this - once again showing she has absolutely NO control over the collective WHAT SO EVER.

I don't underestimate the collective and if anything they would return much dangerous than ever, but at the same time, the Feds would have to find a way to deal with them if they were to survive into the 31st century (which they do).

Janeway changed time - they don't have to at all.
 
Just looking at the thread I figured I'd throw something in here:

All the advanced future technology Voyager acquired probably can't be used for the simple fact that widespread knowledge, and subsequent development of it would prevent its creation to begin with. The future can't be the source of the technology, because its subsequent existence in the past precludes its development in the first place.
 
lol ... 3D master will try to argue this to death if necessary just so he could have the last word.

Then again this discussion can go either way really.
Besides, StarFleet has full access to Borg technology.
Whatever the Borg assimilated from Voyagers future techs, SF can duplicate with assistance of 7 (or without her) and eventually reverse engineer it for their own use.

The Feds are also capable of adaptation just as the Borg.

The fact that Janeway changed time changes nothing for the future Federation that has temporal shields so they continue existing after changes in the timeline took place.

The Borg can retain some level of superiority over the Feds, but with the Feds having access to their technology and collective minds of the entire Federation to pull resources into opposing the Borg using their own systems ... they would most likely start presenting as much of a danger to the Borg as the Borg would to them.
 
Deks said:
lol ... 3D master will try to argue this to death if necessary just so he could have the last word.

Then again this discussion can go either way really.
Besides, StarFleet has full access to Borg technology.
Whatever the Borg assimilated from Voyagers future techs, SF can duplicate with assistance of 7 (or without her) and eventually reverse engineer it for their own use.

No, they can't. Again, even if 7 had all the information up to her assimilation, she doesn't have anything after. And if she miraculously had any information of after, she wouldn't be able to out think and outmaneuver countless trillions of minds working together. That's the whole point of the Borg you know; a hive mind working together to solve problems and adapt to any trouble arising.

The Feds are also capable of adaptation just as the Borg.

But not on the same level; nor are they technological anywhere near the Borg's capabilities.

The fact that Janeway changed time changes nothing for the future Federation that has temporal shields so they continue existing after changes in the timeline took place.

Of course it changes everything. Those temporal shields would have to be UP! If any changes in the timeline would never effect them, there'd be no need for a TCW in the first place. Finally, just because the shielded ships and installations aren't erased, doesn't mean the galaxy around them isn't changed; including a much more powerful Borg presence that assimilated their Federation several centuries earlier. You could practically say, that the fact they didn't stop Janeway from doing it, that Janeway's messing of time indeed wiped out the Federation so there wasn't anyone left to come back in time and stop Janeway from doing it.

The Borg can retain some level of superiority over the Feds, but with the Feds having access to their technology and collective minds of the entire Federation to pull resources into opposing the Borg using their own systems ... they would most likely start presenting as much of a danger to the Borg as the Borg would to them.

MASSIVE levels of superiority. You don't seem to get it. But tech that means one ship can take on an entire fleet of ships and beat them all, is massively superior.
 
It might have been Borg-specific, those transphasics, but I still bet if 2 could destroy a Cube. 1 could have taken down the Reman Warbird. A Cube's shielding and hull had to be much more sophisticated and of course, the inevitable adaptability.
 
3d Master you are underestimating the Feds.
They were able to provide resistance (as much as it was) to the Borg before and they will do it again.
Regardless if the Borg allowed it or not, they provided resistance.

Simply because the Borg have trillions of minds at their disposal changes nothing since the Feds can create diverse technologies as well, and with access to Borg techs (not to mention numerous others) they can expand that to much larger degrees than before.

7 may be only 1 individual, yet her knowledge proved to be invaluable in dealing with the Borg (as did Picards) and it can be done so in the future quite easily despite the 'advantages' the Borg get.
They still retain their fundamental weakness ... hit them with a weapon they are unfamiliar with and that's it (and there are plenty in the Feds arsenal to chose from that have not been used yet).

Besides you are overestimating the Borg because there are number of ways to keep them from adapting instantaneously, not to mention the fact that species 8472 is able to wipe the Borg from the Trek Milky Way galaxy if they decide to do so and the Borgs inability to adapt or assimilate that species.
I agree the Feds are not as technologically developed, yet all the techs the Borg are using, the Feds already have in very early stages of development or simply not use them due to their morals and ethics.
Plus with access to Borg tech (which would be only 2 years behind what the Borg would be using) and innovations being made constantly, not to mention the fact since the timeline was changed and Voy home early that the direction of tech development would change as well ... which can also nullify Borgs preview very easily.

That danged variation puts the Borg at a disadvantage. :D
 
Deks said:
3d Master you are underestimating the Feds.
They were able to provide resistance (as much as it was) to the Borg before and they will do it again.
Regardless if the Borg allowed it or not, they provided resistance.

No, they didn't, they got lucky.

Simply because the Borg have trillions of minds at their disposal changes nothing since the Feds can create diverse technologies as well, and with access to Borg techs (not to mention numerous others) they can expand that to much larger degrees than before.

It changes everything. It's the whole bloody point of the Borg.

7 may be only 1 individual, yet her knowledge proved to be invaluable in dealing with the Borg (as did Picards) and it can be done so in the future quite easily despite the 'advantages' the Borg get.

No, it didn't. They got lucky.

They still retain their fundamental weakness ... hit them with a weapon they are unfamiliar with and that's it (and there are plenty in the Feds arsenal to chose from that have not been used yet).

Bullshit. Even if you got lucky to both get a weapon they are unfamiliar with AND is capable of hurting the Borg, it'll only last a little bit, and then the advantage is gone. They'll run out of these weapons quickly.

Besides you are overestimating the Borg because there are number of ways to keep them from adapting instantaneously, not to mention the fact that species 8472 is able to wipe the Borg from the Trek Milky Way galaxy if they decide to do so and the Borgs inability to adapt or assimilate that species.

It'll only be a matter of time before the Borg adapt. "The Borg have the ability to analyze adapt, Commander." In fact, if you check out Scorpion, you'll find that with every encounter with 8472, it takes more shots to bring down a cube.

I agree the Feds are not as technologically developed, yet all the techs the Borg are using, the Feds already have in very early stages of development or simply not use them due to their morals and ethics.

So what? How much technology do you think the Borg have they are not using?

Plus with access to Borg tech (which would be only 2 years behind what the Borg would be using) and innovations being made constantly, not to mention the fact since the timeline was changed and Voy home early that the direction of tech development would change as well ... which can also nullify Borgs preview very easily.

They don't have access to Borg technology, they have access to Seven. Which didn't do Voyager much good, they couldn't even keep the Borg modification done to Voyager running, they had to dismantle them. That's how far beyond Borg technology is to the Federation's and how incompatible. Borg tech adapted to Voyager by the Borg for use with Voyager, and even with Seven's help once the Borg themselves had gone the Borg tech was disrupting Voyager's systems and they had to remove it. Having an individual with some knowledge of Borg technology isn't going to suddenly magically make them have Borg-technology ships. Not that it would help much, they're still not tied to that technology like Borg hive mind is.

That danged variation puts the Borg at a disadvantage. :D

No, it does not.
 
I'm in 3D's camp here, really. The Borg have been "defeated" basically every time they make an appearance, because otherwise our heroes would be assimilated for good. Those "defeats" have never stuck, no matter whether our heroes or their powerful allies strike at the heart of all Borgdom, or hack down a large amount of their hardware, or insidously introduce sneaky traps. It's in the nature of the Borg to survive whatever opposition mere mortals can put up. During their centuries if not thousands of centuries of history, they must have faced everything these mortals can throw at them and survived. Why should the Feds be any more a threat to them than any of the preceding opponents?

The future can't be the source of the technology, because its subsequent existence in the past precludes its development in the first place.

Remember Dr Korby, "the Pasteur of Archaeological Medicine"? I'd think the Feds would get a lot of their technology by discovering it, and then learning to understand and adapting that discovery. Normally, the discoveries would be made on distant planets, amidst old ruins or something like that. But it should be no different if the discovery this time were made through time travel.

Sure, we almost never see the discoveries of our heroes put into use. But then again, we only follow our heroes for something like seven years on a stretch. It may well be that the process from discovery to product takes at least a full decade in the usual case.

What Admiral Janeway brought back was something of a survival kit, optimized for the application rather than for production. Reverse-engineering its contents might plausibly be a prolonged process, not only because of the complexity of the task, but also because the engineers would have to be careful not to damage their limited supply of the tech - and because Admiral Janeway might have booby-trapped the tech against this very possibility.

The heroes of Stargate SG-1 would proceed nevertheless, following their standard modus operandi of not reverse-engineering anything (because they aren't smart enough and know it). Instead, they would make use of the pieces of hardware they have, and usually lose them in the process. But the heroes of Star Trek behave differently, because they do believe in their ability to reverse-engineer anything and everything. Eventually.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Starfleet used that technology to block the prying eyes of the Guardian of Forever, which had feeding information to Paramout Studios, which in turn had been interferring with the timeline by dramatizing the events of the 24th century in a television series.
 
The Bat-armour probably ended up in the same place as all the other ultra-tech that Starfleet has obtained over the years but never bothered to use, like the spare Suliban cellship, every last item from Daniels' quarters, Kelvan trans-galactic warp drive, the mind-swap machine or all the ways TNG came up with to use the transporter to cheat death, reverse aging, etc. I'm guessing Section 31 has a giant warehouse somewhere like the one from the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. :D
 
The way I figure it, there is back-engineering that is going on on the stuff Starfleet would consider to be "realistic", as in the incremental improvements that they were maybe 2 - 5 years away from and will jump-start their production/research.

Keep in mind that with word of Voyager's return, there is the potential for an arms race which the AQ/BQ powers could ill afford while re-building from the Dominion War. Any rapid deployment of advanced technology could result in the Time Cops showing up or some sort of pre-emptive strike being launched before they can turn around and with fewer ships and crew, defeat other nations in battle. Remember, it doesn't have to be fact that they would do it, a paranoid Empire like the Romulans might just think the suspicion enough is cause to go after the Federation if they think they'll lose either way.

Section 31 might be tinkering with the stuff. Someone like O'Brien might be looking at stuff as a professor on Earth. But the civilian tech like the mobile emitter might be pressed into production a little more readily.
 
I've asked very similar questions in the past, and have come up with the only logical solution to all the problems involved with "Endgame". That is Endgame is an alternate timeline that the Star Trek universe could have taken, but didn't.

Janeway carried out her plan, as shown in the episode, but the original timeline was restored by forces unknown.

The real timeline is where Voyager took the additional 17 years and arrived at Earth without any timeline damaging advanced weapons. And without erasing Voyager's impact on the Delta quadrant.
 
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