What happened to the Ambassador-class?

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

How is that ironclad proof? I'm asking if you can provide proof that the A was a new ship or an old ship that was renamed.

I misunderstood your question, distracted with dinner and my dog. Whether new or renamed, the "Enterprise-A" version of the ship is only 6 years old from the end of TVH to the end of TUC. No one's retiring a 6-year-old ship starship, so it's got to be a pre-existing ship renamed Enterprise-A. My proof is logic. Do you have a counterargument? I'm all ears.

 

[Dukhat]

I misunderstood your question, distracted with dinner and my dog. Whether new or renamed, the "Enterprise-A" version of the ship is only 6 years old from the end of TVH to the end of TUC. No one's retiring a 6-year-old ship starship, so it's got to be a pre-existing ship renamed Enterprise-A. My proof is logic. Do you have a counterargument? I'm all ears.

I'm not arguing with you. I don't think that it's logical to retire a 6 year old ship either, if in fact it was only 6 years old. But this is fiction, and Starfleet has done more illogical things than this. Or perhaps Starfleet was retiring the Constitution class en masse, no matter how old any individual ship might be. We're never going to get a straight answer unless it's mentioned on screen, and I'm pretty sure that starship has sailed.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I'm not arguing with you. I don't think that it's logical to retire a 6 year old ship either, if in fact it was only 6 years old. But this is fiction, and Starfleet has done more illogical things than this. Or perhaps Starfleet was retiring the Constitution class en masse, no matter how old any individual ship might be. We're never going to get a straight answer unless it's mentioned on screen, and I'm pretty sure that starship has sailed.

I can buy retiring the class as in no more new productions, but if some of them are fairly new, let them fly.

 

[Dukhat]

I can buy retiring the class as in no more new productions, but if some of them are fairly new, let them fly.

We don't work for Starfleet, so we're not privy to their decision-making processes.

 

[somebuddyX]

I must of read head-canon as canon, my sorries.

Speaking of head-canon, what about the Ent-A? Given it was decommissioned just 6 years later, I like to think it was either the Yorktown from TVH (which would mean the crew died, eeeeee), or it was just some retired mothballed ship with Enterprise sticker slapped on it. Either way, doesn't make sense to build a new ship and retire it 6 years later to make room for the Ent-B.

Those are both great ideas. I originally thought it was new ship and it did bother me it got canned after not that long, until I read about the Enterprise CV-6 aircraft carrier which got binned after 9 years.
But that's also one of the things I love about head canon is that someone comes up with a neat idea and whatever doesn't work for you personally can still work in an alternate universe. Someone here came up with the idea of the successor to the NCC-1701 being like an Excelsior-class U.S.S Enterprise NCC-2001, like how there's different Lexingtons or Farraguts or whatever. It's only because of the probe crisis they gave Kirk a new Constitution with the A. I love that, because it's also something easy to visualise in fanart to denote that something's different.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Those are both great ideas. I originally thought it was new ship and it did bother me it got canned after not that long, until I read about the Enterprise CV-6 aircraft carrier which got binned after 9 years.
But that's also one of the things I love about head canon is that someone comes up with a neat idea and whatever doesn't work for you personally can still work in an alternate universe. Someone here came up with the idea of the successor to the NCC-1701 being like an Excelsior-class U.S.S Enterprise NCC-2001, like how there's different Lexingtons or Farraguts or whatever. It's only because of the probe crisis they gave Kirk a new Constitution with the A. I love that, because it's also something easy to visualise in fanart to denote that something's different.

Pretty sure the Ent-B got its name from the probe crisis and Kirk helping broker peace between the Federation and the Klingons. If not for that, it might have just been any ole name.

In real life, an aircraft carrier's going to float on the ocean and be subject to the limitations of real-world technological limits. In Star Trek, these ships are out in space (no corrosion from water, no risk of sinking), and a mix of futurism and influence from extraterrestrial societies. It just doesn't make sense to retire the Ent-A as a 6-year-old starship when my car is older and doing just fine.

 

[The Wormhole]

It just doesn't make sense to retire the Ent-A as a 6-year-old starship

Who said Star Trek had to make sense?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Who said Star Trek had to make sense?

As a movie/TV viewer, I expect movies/TV to make sense, because I have high standards.

 

[The Wormhole]

I expect movies/TV to make sense

That's your first mistake.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

That's your first mistake.

High standards are never a mistake.

 

[Dukhat]

Star Trek has never had enough of a production budget or sway to hire professional science fiction writers for it to have standards that high. It’s not Sci-fi, it’s action-adventure in a Sci-fi setting.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Who said Star Trek had to make sense?

Just a thought: maybe it wasn't specifically the Enterprise, but the new class re-design (maybe the Enterprise A was the only one rolled out so far?). Scotty did say it was like it was put together by monkeys. And based off of stardates inside Trek-universe, the Enterprise B was rolled out FAST, suggesting Starfleet was unhappy with this new re-design and was scrapping it altogether. Plus, at the time, they thought transwarp was going to be a thing.

 

[Dukhat]

Just a thought: maybe it wasn't specifically the Enterprise, but the new class re-design (maybe the Enterprise A was the only one rolled out so far?). Scotty did say it was like it was put together by monkeys.

Scotty’s line can be interpreted three ways:

1. The ship was new, and put together by monkeys.

2. The ship was old but new to him, and was still put together by monkeys.

3. The ship was newly refit from its old TOS configuration, and the refit was put together by monkeys.

And based off of stardates inside Trek-universe, the Enterprise B was rolled out FAST, suggesting Starfleet was unhappy with this new re-design and was scrapping it altogether. Plus, at the time, they thought transwarp was going to be a thing.

I think the Constitution class was just on its way out. The Miranda and Excelsior classes seemed to supersede it, based on what we saw in TNG and DS9.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Star Trek has never had enough of a production budget or sway to hire professional science fiction writers for it to have standards that high. It’s not Sci-fi, it’s action-adventure in a Sci-fi setting.

You don't need professional sci-fi novelists or whatever to have high standards.
You just need episodes like "The Enemy Within" and "The Measure of a Man."

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Just a thought: maybe it wasn't specifically the Enterprise, but the new class re-design (maybe the Enterprise A was the only one rolled out so far?). Scotty did say it was like it was put together by monkeys. And based off of stardates inside Trek-universe, the Enterprise B was rolled out FAST, suggesting Starfleet was unhappy with this new re-design and was scrapping it altogether. Plus, at the time, they thought transwarp was going to be a thing.

Honestly, I just assumed the Ent-A was a mothballed ship pulled out so Kirk and friends could have one last 5-year-mission hurrah before retirement. With the Excelsior having proven itself, the Ent-B was probably one of the very first Excelsior-class ships, possibly one of the first 5, with some special modifications, because Enterprise. Starfleet was screaming at Uhura to tell Kirk to bring the ship home for decomissioning, because the Ent-B was already built and months away from launch.

 

[Dukhat]

You don't need professional sci-fi novelists or whatever to have high standards.
You just need episodes like "The Enemy Within" and "The Measure of a Man."

Oh, I agree. It’s just that for every Enemy Within, you have a Spock’s Brain. And for every Measure of a Man, you have a Code of Honor. So the bar of ‘professionalism’ as you are perceiving it isn’t going to be consistent at all times.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Oh, I agree. It’s just that for every Enemy Within, you have a Spock’s Brain. And for every Measure of a Man, you have a Code of Honor. So the bar of ‘professionalism’ as you are perceiving it isn’t going to be consistent at all times.

"Spock's Brian" works as a comedy. I actually like "Code of Honor." I get it has the reputation of that one racist episode, but I get what they were trying to do. They wanted to give Crosby a Tasha-heavy episode. Alien king wants her to be his wife. Conceptually, not bad. Final product...

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

You don't need professional sci-fi novelists or whatever to have high standards.
You just need episodes like "The Enemy Within" and "The Measure of a Man."

I agree with this, but I just have to mention that Enemy Within was written by professional sci-fi novelist Richard Matheson

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Scotty’s line can be interpreted three ways:

1. The ship was new, and put together by monkeys.

2. The ship was old but new to him, and was still put together by monkeys.

3. The ship was newly refit from its old TOS configuration, and the refit was put together by monkeys.



I think the Constitution class was just on its way out. The Miranda and Excelsior classes seemed to supersede it, based on what we saw in TNG and DS9.

I like option #1. I don't disagree with the Constitution being "on its way out." Indeed, the Excelsior and Miranda seemed to have cancelled out the need for more Constitution-class ships. I don't imagine they'd all be retired at the same time, just no more new ones built.

 

[Takeru]

Still, why retire a 6-year-old ship? That makes absolutely no sense. It works if the Ent-A was a retired ship pulled out of mothballs as a "gee, thanks, Kirk" kind of move. What do you think?

I agree, the Ent-A almost fell apart in TFF and Scotty wouldn't stop complaining. Starfleet definitely grabbed an old Conny from the junkyard and gave it a new paint job.