What happened on Romulus, when the Klingons conquered the planet in the alternate future of AGT?

[Unimatrix Q]

There was talk about an outbreak of the terrelian plague on Romulus, after the Klingons conquered the planet, in "All Good Things". Did the Klingons use bioweapons during their attack on the planet and was this maybe one of the main reasons for their renewed conflict with the Federation?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps in the AGT timeline, the Hobus supernova was stopped before it reached Romulus and the Klingons took advantage of the chaos to invade.

 

[The Wormhole]

Presumably when the Klingons conquered Romulus, the healthcare on Romulus went down to Klingon standards and thus plague. At the very least, I doubt it was the result of Klingon bioweapons. The entire pretense for getting the Pasteur across the border was because of the plague, the Klingons were allowing Federation medical ships. If the plague were the Klingons' doing, I doubt they'd be allowing Federation aid to the planet they targeted with a bioweapon.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Presumably when the Klingons conquered Romulus, the healthcare on Romulus went down to Klingon standards and thus plague. At the very least, I doubt it was the result of Klingon bioweapons. The entire pretense for getting the Pasteur across the border was because of the plague, the Klingons were allowing Federation medical ships. If the plague were the Klingons' doing, I doubt they'd be allowing Federation aid to the planet they targeted with a bioweapon.

Maybe there were still a few relatively federation friendly houses (similar to the house of Mogh) around, that might have been against a possible bioweapon attack but couldn't prevent it, that used their remaining influence to allow medical help for the Romulans.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Klingons don't strike me as the kind who would use bioweapons. They'd see it as dishonorable.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Klingons don't strike me as the kind who would use bioweapons. They'd see it as dishonorable.

To quote Worf in "The Way of the Warrior":
"In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."

 

[Vger23]

The AGT future scenario isn't a timeline. It's an elaborate fantasy created by Q to challenge Picard. So, in reality, nothing probably happened.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

The AGT future scenario isn't a timeline. It's an elaborate fantasy created by Q to challenge Picard. So, in reality, nothing probably happened.

Not sure about that. With Q all things are possible, that it's a real possible future, that it is just an illusion invented by Q or one based on a really existing alternate future.

To come back to the possibilities that it was real or based on (a) reality: What do you think happened with Romulus and the Romulans in this case? And how do you imagine the conditions on the planet?

 

[Timo]

Horrid planetwide plagues are standard in Trek, and have been since TOS already. Probably all that cross-pollinating through space travel would terminate life in Milky Way in decades if not for things like zenite or anti-Tarellian blockades. And while a conquered planed might warrant the latter (great for anti-liberation purposes, too), it probably wouldn't get the former.

Perhaps this is why evil star empires have so few subject races in evidence? Conquest kills them indirectly, even if the new overlords can't afford the ammo needed for direct extinction.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Horrid planetwide plagues are standard in Trek, and have been since TOS already. Probably all that cross-pollinating through space travel would terminate life in Milky Way in decades if not for things like zenite or anti-Tarellian blockades. And while a conquered planed might warrant the latter (great for anti-liberation purposes, too), it probably wouldn't get the former.

Perhaps this is why evil star empires have so few subject races in evidence? Conquest kills them indirectly, even if the new overlords can't afford the ammo needed for direct extinction.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah but the Klingons and Romulans had been in contact for centuries at that time, so crosspollination shouldn't have such disasterous results.

 

[Herbert]

The AGT future scenario isn't a timeline. It's an elaborate fantasy created by Q to challenge Picard. So, in reality, nothing probably happened.

In your opinion.

 

[STEPhon IT]

The AGT future scenario isn't a timeline. It's an elaborate fantasy created by Q to challenge Picard. So, in reality, nothing probably happened.

It was a timeline because of the paradox caused by Picard in the future it literally effected his current timeline and his past and even a large portion of the Milky Way Galaxy where Human existence never happened.

 

[Vger23]

In your opinion.

Not really. Since none of what Q presented ended up coming true:

• Enterprise-D destroyed in Generations, negating the possibility of Riker's ridiculous upgraded flagship.
• Troi still alive in Star Trek Picard, negating the development that Deanna died.
• Hobus star destroyed Romulus in Star Trek, so no Romulus
• Data killed in Scimitar Explosion in Nemesis, so no Data at Cambridge

I mean...I guess anything is possible...but it's pretty clear to me that Q created (as he did on many, many other occasions) an elaborate fantasy scenario for Picard.

I'm not sure why fans struggle with this so much. Nobody thinks that Q really sent Picard back in time to the age of Sherwood Forrest in "QPid." I don't think anyone believes that Picard actually travels back in time during "Tapestry." Q didn't bring Yar, Troi, Data and Picard back to 2079 to try them in an actual post-atomic courtroom in "Encounter at Farpoint." He's a frigging trickster. It's the equivalent of an elaborate, highly realistic holodeck game. I don't know why it's so hard for people to accept that AGT isn't the "real future."

And people always throw out the "well, it's a possible future" excuse. Ok. What the hell does that even mean? A possible future? So, it's like, one of any infinite number of futures (say that three times) that MIGHT have happened, but clearly did not? Ok. That's virtually meaningless, then. It's no different than being a fantasy. Where is the power behind that? I could write a bold prediction of a "possible future" on some pink construction paper with neon green crayons...but it doesn't make it any more (or less) real than this. It would be just as valuable, just as valid and just as "possible" as whatever Q concocted to confuse and "teach" Picard in AGT.

It's nonsense. The AGT scenarios were all stuff that Q made up to put the crew, and Picard in particular, through their paces. It's the same thing Q always does.

 

[Dukhat]

Not really. Since none of what Q presented ended up coming true:

• Enterprise-D destroyed in Generations, negating the possibility of Riker's ridiculous upgraded flagship.
• Troi still alive in Star Trek Picard, negating the development that Deanna died.
• Hobus star destroyed Romulus in Star Trek, so no Romulus
• Data killed in Scimitar Explosion in Nemesis, so no Data at Cambridge

I mean...I guess anything is possible...but it's pretty clear to me that Q created (as he did on many, many other occasions) an elaborate fantasy scenario for Picard.

I'm not sure why fans struggle with this so much. Nobody thinks that Q really sent Picard back in time to the age of Sherwood Forrest in "QPid." I don't think anyone believes that Picard actually travels back in time during "Tapestry." Q didn't bring Yar, Troi, Data and Picard back to 2079 to try them in an actual post-atomic courtroom in "Encounter at Farpoint." He's a frigging trickster. It's the equivalent of an elaborate, highly realistic holodeck game. I don't know why it's so hard for people to accept that AGT isn't the "real future."

And people always throw out the "well, it's a possible future" excuse. Ok. What the hell does that even mean? A possible future? So, it's like, one of any infinite number of futures (say that three times) that MIGHT have happened, but clearly did not? Ok. That's virtually meaningless, then. It's no different than being a fantasy. Where is the power behind that? I could write a bold prediction of a "possible future" on some pink construction paper with neon green crayons...but it doesn't make it any more (or less) real than this. It would be just as valuable, just as valid and just as "possible" as whatever Q concocted to confuse and "teach" Picard in AGT.

It's nonsense. The AGT scenarios were all stuff that Q made up to put the crew, and Picard in particular, through their paces. It's the same thing Q always does.

While I agree with you in theory, there are some aspects of the AGT future that we also see in other alternate futures that had nothing to do with Q. For example, in both DS9's "The Visitor" and VOY's "Endgame," we see the same future Starfleet uniforms and communicators as was seen in AGT. So even if Q just pulled the AGT future out of his ass, it's implied that there are at least some things about it that were meant to be part of whatever the 'real' future timeline ended up being. Of course, STP now shows that those uniforms and communicators in fact do not exist in the 'real' future, so make of that what you will.

 

[Vger23]

While I agree with you in theory, there are some aspects of the AGT future that we also see in other alternate futures that had nothing to do with Q. For example, in both DS9's "The Visitor" and VOY's "Endgame," we see the same future Starfleet uniforms and communicators as was seen in AGT. So even if Q just pulled the AGT future out of his ass, it's implied that there are at least some things about it that were meant to be part of whatever the 'real' future timeline ended up being. Of course, STP now shows that those uniforms and communicators in fact do not exist in the 'real' future, so make of that what you will.

I'm sure the only reason Q did that was because he was budget-conscious about those episodes.

 

[Timo]

Yeah but the Klingons and Romulans had been in contact for centuries at that time, so crosspollination shouldn't have such disasterous results.

I don't mean the Klingons contaminated the place. I mean the Klingons failed to act when the Omegians polluted the place on their trip from Tarellia via Romulus to the outer parts, thus bringing down a planet that had previously successfully fought back contamination by Alphians, Betians, Gammians and the rest all the way up to the Psians.

Judging by TOS, fatal contamination would happen basically annually, and UFP planets would be dying left and right, sending frantic calls for help to Starfleet if their local resources or colonial holdings didn't provide them with the required miracle cures. No doubt the same would apply to Klingon and Romulan planets - but if Romulus became a Klingon planet, such calls would go unheard...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unimatrix Q]

While I agree with you in theory, there are some aspects of the AGT future that we also see in other alternate futures that had nothing to do with Q. For example, in both DS9's "The Visitor" and VOY's "Endgame," we see the same future Starfleet uniforms and communicators as was seen in AGT. So even if Q just pulled the AGT future out of his ass, it's implied that there are at least some things about it that were meant to be part of whatever the 'real' future timeline ended up being. Of course, STP now shows that those uniforms and communicators in fact do not exist in the 'real' future, so make of that what you will.

The communicators in Picard actually look at least really similar if not identical to the ones in AGT's alternate future.

 

[Jayson1]

I think that universe was real in the moment of it's existence. While it is a simulation were talking about one made by a Q so they can create life and a universe as real as the real one and then simply make it vanish as if it never existed. They do have the power of a God.


Jason

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It’s pretty explicit AGT is the future that would have happened if Picard didn’t have the knowledge of that future.

They even had the same uniforms as in Visitor.

If there had been no Star Trek produced after AGT there would be no question it was a real timeline.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

It’s pretty explicit AGT is the future that would have happened if Picard didn’t have the knowledge of that future.

They even had the same uniforms as in Visitor.

If there had been no Star Trek produced after AGT there would be no question it was a real timeline.

Yeah, i see it the same way.

To get back to the theme of the thread:
What do you think the conditions on Romulus are like for the Romulans after the invasion?

I especially wonder about this, because they are the main adversaries of the Klingon Empire but we also saw some klingon sympathisants and allies like the House of Duras and Governor Vagh of Krios during the shows set in the 24th century. I guess there are a lot more on Qo'noS...