It does mean that it's very strange that every single member of the Klingon military a decade later is, without exception, a victim of the Klingon augment virus. "Remain Klingon" means that those defective victims would not be allowed the honor to serve. Normally I'd assume it's some sort of punishment for the augment Klingons but then in the context of Klingon culture where serving in the military is a great honor, it's obviously not a punishment. So I don't know what happened between Discovery and TOS that led to that.
What does "Remain Klingon" mean to you?
- Thread starter Charles Phipps
- Start date
They do not speak of it with outsiders.
An Augment took power.
They're hanging out with Guinan, Owo and Detmer just off screen.
Humanity is "the Glue" that binds all the other species together in the UFP.
Even after Earth left the Fed, the 2 most prominent people in its hierarchy, Kovich and Vance, are human. Heck, even alien President Rillak seems to have no control over Kovich.
Humanity is the UFP's "Super Glue"
I thought it was root beer?
Self sealing stem bolts.
i've criticized the Federation as it's presented as being way too Human-centric for what it was theoretically designed to be; a looser confederation a la European Union would make way more sense given the budget
but the imperialistic, monocultural Klingons, of all people, saying that, is beyond hypocritical.
but the imperialistic, monocultural Klingons, of all people, saying that, is beyond hypocritical.
Isn't that the point?
oh definitely, but the Klingons never seem to learn that
Why should they? Even at their weakest, the Federation immediately reassures them that they are not trying to demand the "annihilation of their culture" and the Federation has to make concessions.
What motive do they have to learn?
Sure, but I think more to the point is the Klingons are honest about it.
The Klingons are not shy about how they want to conquer worlds and add them to their Empire.
The Federation wants to do exactly the same, just in a different manner, but also doesn't like to admit.
"We come in peace" really IS the first shot in a cultural war with the Federation. Once the Federation arrives on your doorstep, it's only a matter of time before you are assimilated into it.
From the Klingon perspective, I think they would be a bit more respectful of the Federation if they did just roll up and say "We plan to take over your Empire".
@evilchumlee Agreed with all that.
The old game "Star Trek: Klingon Academy" was essentially written from this perspective.
I thought it made sense then and still do now.
The old game "Star Trek: Klingon Academy" was essentially written from this perspective.
I thought it made sense then and still do now.
the way the Federation does it still better than how the Klingons do it. Honesty isn't much when a bunch of BoPs decloak and blow you up
Define "better".
Better to whom? What criteria are you using to define "better"?
To the Klingons, it seems that a bunch of BoP's decloaking and blowing you up is the better choice. Or, for the context, a bunch of Vulcan ships just unloading everything they have on you everytime they see you is "better".
Sure, from our human point of view, slow subversion and cultural assimilation may be seen as preferable. Although I think some might make the argument that it's bad as well, just another form of colonialism. It's just non-violent.
I would generally agree that non-violence is "better" than violence, but I don't think that's an objective truth.
I was actually thinking about why one would to be in the Federation recently. They don't use money, while it seems everyone else in the galaxy does (and it seems even prominent Fed civilians like Riker and Picard post Starfleet don't have access to personal starships, while personal starships are very common outside the Fed as we've seen in many episodes). The tradeoff seems to be that if you're a Federation citizen, you're "guaranteed" to be protected from poverty (which per Picard basically means you're guaranteed a trailer sized home at least and a replicator) whereas outside the Fed if your business/job fails you may not even have that.
Just something to think about, suddenly this idea that everyone should want to be in the Fed isn't as clear cut. If you're in it you don't use money, but you're guaranteed the bare necessities for survival. If you're outside the Fed you have money and can accumulate as much as you want (like personal starships, which again Riker and Picard didn't seem to have in the Picard show), but if it all goes wrong as life often does, nothing will protect you.
Grand Nagus Rom clearly tried to incorporate the softer, friendlier aspects of the Federation into his Ferengi Alliance while keeping the financial benefits of accumulating wealth. I'm very curious whether he ultimately was successful
That's a fair analysis. We've seen this in Trek. There are even humans who seem to not care to live in the Federation, like the people from DS9 "Honor Among Thieves".
I think just trying to account for different cultures as well, people like Ferengi would likely find the Federation to be an absolute living hell. Quark was full ready to get the hell of DS9 immediately before being persuaded to stay when Starfleet took over. Klingons would generally scoff at the general "weakness" of the Federation.
Here's an interesting one to ponder... how would the Federation deal with a situation like the Vidiians? Let's take a hypothetical, that the Phage affected Vulcans, who are already Federation members. All of the traditional medical treatments haven't worked, the only logical thing to do is to do what the Vidiians did. Is the Federation going to be ok with that? Or would the Vulcans need to leave the Federation in order to ensure their survival and longevity?
The Fed might have to rethink their bans on cloning and genetic engineering in this situation. If the Fed provided the resources for mass brain-dead clones for the Vidiians to harvest, the Vidiians will argue that they aren't actually killing anyone since said clones were born for the sole purpose of keeping the Vidiians alive.
I know it's a different franchise, but the Jedi in that other Star franchise had no problem forgetting about their stance against slavery when a clone army magically showed up on their doorstep and they needed an army.
Similar threads
