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What do you diehard TOS fans think of the new movie?

I enjoyed the movie but utterly hate the new ship. I think it's god aweful fugly, but it is what it is. Perhaps in the sequel(s) we will see some sort of refit to her (and the horrid engineering section) and a more familiar looking enterprise.

I also agree with many of the previous posts about Kirk getting promoted so soon; not very believable or likely.
 
I enjoyed the movie but utterly hate the new ship. I think it's god aweful fugly, but it is what it is. Perhaps in the sequel(s) we will see some sort of refit to her (and the horrid engineering section) and a more familiar looking enterprise.

I also agree with many of the previous posts about Kirk getting promoted so soon; not very believable or likely.
The ingenious water cooling system was cool though :guffaw:
Being serious now, the new ship was fine imho but I think it should not be overused that someone dies. Soldiers do die of course but should not die all the time. The movie should not have started with the death of Kirk's father, no matter how heroic.

This is Star Trek, there is belief in the future for humanity or at least there was was. Were someone to die, it should be a dramatic event and there should be a funeral and it should happen in every movie.
 
I went into the theater thinking I might like it. I couldn't imagine so many critics raving over this film and me thinking it anything other than at worst, watchable. But honestly, it was truly a painful experience to watch that film, and I don't mean painful in an emotional sense. I mean physically painful -- the frenetic action and heavyhanded, simplistic score and overbearing sound. It left me drained by the midpoint in the movie, and I had to go out to the lobby to catch my breath. I'd really never seen anything quite as disorienting.

Once I got past all that, there were the internal inconsistencies and illogic to contend with. A story emerges from the plot, characters and setting, but everything was going by so fast that it was hard to tell if the characters were experiencing any real growth or if the plot was really progressing. It felt more like a shell game with those three story elements being switched around so fast you couldn't tell if anything was really changing.

Worst of all for me was the under-realized setting. I don't mean the changed sets or designs or the Treknical stuff -- this is JJ Abrams' Trek and he should be able to design it the way he wants. I mean all the inconsistencies that pulled me out of the story, and reminded me I was watching fake characters not driven by internal motivations, but by the puppet strings that connect them to the scriptwriters' keyboards. They didn't earn their positions -- Scott, McCoy and most of all Kirk were just given them. From cadet to captain in one move. No organization could exist that permitted something like that. Hell, after doing great in college even the President had to go to law school and win a seat in the Illinois and U.S. Senates before getting the big chair.

So, that's a double hit. It robs the characters of having achieved something, and robs the audience of having a believable setting for the story. Superhero stories are only fun when the writer finds the hero's weakness and exploits it, not when he gives him the prize without any real effort.

As far as Trek issues go, I want to direct you to a post made on the XI forum by a new member that goes by the handle "dkazaz". He understands what Star Trek is better than me, and drew the distinction between it and what I saw in XI:

To me and I suspect many other trek fans the point of Star Trek (all the versions) was Roddenberry's idea: mankind becomes civilized. They explore space to understand, communicate and learn. They respect each other and other cultures. They try to do the right thing, even in the face of a challenge, an enemy or a no-win scenario. You know what I'm talking about if you have seen more than 3 episodes of any trek series.

None of that was there in XI. We got updated versions of the characters. Cool. New actors. Great. New FX. Fantastic. A new story. Could be OK in future, even though this plot was lame IMO.

What I didn't get was star trek. I didn't get exploration, I didn't get respect of others or other cultures, I didn't get "doing right in the face of adversity".

I got a Spock who has so little respect for others that he maroons someone he doesn't like on some random planet. I got a version of Kirk that orders the death of his enemies when they won't submit (even though they're doomed anyway it seems). I cringed when I saw that - I could name a dozen stories where Kirk and ST were defined by the exact opposite actions. And for this remarkable (?) performance he's promoted to Captain.

This isn't a civilized mankind, this is today's culture with all its ills, when we choose to go to war for convenience or to prove our might makes us right. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

XI was an exciting looking action story with the characters of the original series. It just wasn't Star Trek.

I'm not putting anyone down for liking the movie, so don't get the wrong idea. It's me -- I can't understand how I could be so out of the loop and find it such a colossal waste of my time, and yet have 95% of reviewers say it is a good movie. In a way it reminds me of being a kid in about 1970 and having everyone think me weird for liking that odd "Star Track" show with the pointy-eared guy. The more Star Trek has been made to fit what "everyone" likes, the less I seem to like it.

So, this is what the vast majority of people want to see, and for achieving that JJ Abrams should be proud. I just wish he'd done it with his own characters and his own Abrams-verse instead of so wholly and completely re-inventing this one. From that 95% RT score I'd bet an Abrams-verse gone solo could have stood on its own two feet just fine.
 
I enjoyed the film for what it is. I don't see the point of comparing it to the old Star Trek because it's a different take on the material. It's not the Star Trek I grew up on, just as the Harrison Ford version of The Fugitive isn't the 60s show, or 1980's Flash Gordon isn't the Buster Crabbe version.

The film IS dumb as a box of rocks on some levels, but, seriously, virtually all of the Trek films have had brainless/coincidental moments and WTF incidents.

Star Trek: OMG Spock and Uhura?
TFF: OMFG Scotty and Uhura?

Star Trek: Red matter?
TWOK: Genesis go boom and makes a nebula into a planet?

Star Trek: Cadets on the ship? Cadet becomes Captain?
TOS movies: Same crew on same ship for 15-20 years?

I could go on and on. The other Trek movies are hardly high art or logical, and full of plot contrivances and bonehead stupid pseudo-science. And if I never have to see anything as painful as the TNG crew trying to be funny it'll be too soon.

QFFT.
 
I went into the theater thinking I might like it. I couldn't imagine so many critics raving over this film and me thinking it anything other than at worst, watchable. But honestly, it was truly a painful experience to watch that film, and I don't mean painful in an emotional sense. I mean physically painful -- the frenetic action and heavyhanded, simplistic score and overbearing sound. It left me drained by the midpoint in the movie, and I had to go out to the lobby to catch my breath. I'd really never seen anything quite as disorienting.

Once I got past all that, there were the internal inconsistencies and illogic to contend with. A story emerges from the plot, characters and setting, but everything was going by so fast that it was hard to tell if the characters were experiencing any real growth or if the plot was really progressing. It felt more like a shell game with those three story elements being switched around so fast you couldn't tell if anything was really changing.

Worst of all for me was the under-realized setting. I don't mean the changed sets or designs or the Treknical stuff -- this is JJ Abrams' Trek and he should be able to design it the way he wants. I mean all the inconsistencies that pulled me out of the story, and reminded me I was watching fake characters not driven by internal motivations, but by the puppet strings that connect them to the scriptwriters' keyboards. They didn't earn their positions -- Scott, McCoy and most of all Kirk were just given them. From cadet to captain in one move. No organization could exist that permitted something like that. Hell, after doing great in college even the President had to go to law school and win a seat in the Illinois and U.S. Senates before getting the big chair.

So, that's a double hit. It robs the characters of having achieved something, and robs the audience of having a believable setting for the story. Superhero stories are only fun when the writer finds the hero's weakness and exploits it, not when he gives him the prize without any real effort.

As far as Trek issues go, I want to direct you to a post made on the XI forum by a new member that goes by the handle "dkazaz". He understands what Star Trek is better than me, and drew the distinction between it and what I saw in XI:

To me and I suspect many other trek fans the point of Star Trek (all the versions) was Roddenberry's idea: mankind becomes civilized. They explore space to understand, communicate and learn. They respect each other and other cultures. They try to do the right thing, even in the face of a challenge, an enemy or a no-win scenario. You know what I'm talking about if you have seen more than 3 episodes of any trek series.

None of that was there in XI. We got updated versions of the characters. Cool. New actors. Great. New FX. Fantastic. A new story. Could be OK in future, even though this plot was lame IMO.

What I didn't get was star trek. I didn't get exploration, I didn't get respect of others or other cultures, I didn't get "doing right in the face of adversity".

I got a Spock who has so little respect for others that he maroons someone he doesn't like on some random planet. I got a version of Kirk that orders the death of his enemies when they won't submit (even though they're doomed anyway it seems). I cringed when I saw that - I could name a dozen stories where Kirk and ST were defined by the exact opposite actions. And for this remarkable (?) performance he's promoted to Captain.

This isn't a civilized mankind, this is today's culture with all its ills, when we choose to go to war for convenience or to prove our might makes us right. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

XI was an exciting looking action story with the characters of the original series. It just wasn't Star Trek.

I'm not putting anyone down for liking the movie, so don't get the wrong idea. It's me -- I can't understand how I could be so out of the loop and find it such a colossal waste of my time, and yet have 95% of reviewers say it is a good movie. In a way it reminds me of being a kid in about 1970 and having everyone think me weird for liking that odd "Star Track" show with the pointy-eared guy. The more Star Trek has been made to fit what "everyone" likes, the less I seem to like it.

So, this is what the vast majority of people want to see, and for achieving that JJ Abrams should be proud. I just wish he'd done it with his own characters and his own Abrams-verse instead of so wholly and completely re-inventing this one. From that 95% RT score I'd bet an Abrams-verse gone solo could have stood on its own two feet just fine.
There's so much in here that I agree with.

I particularly agree that it isn't my intention to put anyone down because they liked the film even if I strongly disagree with their viewpoint. Yet in like manner I resent it when some others attempt to shout down dissenters who didn't like the film.
 
I agree with all the criticisms of the film as listed above. People in this thread have listed them in more thoughtful, careful ways than I ever could. I was truly amazed by how many top level critics loved this film - it's just a fluffy summer blockbuster that will make lots of money. Ok, whatever. It will be a forgotten movie come the end of the year and many will come back to these forums in a few years and say "What the hell did I ever see in that film?"
 
I'll put it this way: If you are a Trekker and hungry for Trek, then this is like being hungry for a decent meal and getting fast food. It comes in bright packaging, fills the hole in your belly for a while, looks good at first, tastes decent enough because everything does taste good when you are super hungry...but afterwards...you arent satisfied and wish you'd gotten a home cooked meal.
 
I'll put it this way: If you are a Trekker and hungry for Trek, then this is like being hungry for a decent meal and getting fast food. It comes in bright packaging, fills the hole in your belly for a while, looks good at first, tastes decent enough because everything does taste good when you are super hungry...but afterwards...you arent satisfied and wish you'd gotten a home cooked meal.

I eat regularly and I loved this movie.
I'm going back for thirds. It's that goddamn delicious.


J.
 
I think there is more than one way to make a movie and have it be "Star Trek". Star Trek is no stranger to "action and adventure". TWOK was an action movie. As was First Contact. TOS has its share of fights and explosions. Heck there nothing like Kirk going mano a mano with somebody (alien, human or first officer), getting his shirt ripped and coming out on top by out fighting or psyching his opponent.

I think Scotty and McCoy earned their spots by their actions. It not like they weren't qualified. As I've said before, Kirk's promotion is a weakeness. I can understand why they did it ,but there was probably a better way.
 
I'll put it this way: If you are a Trekker and hungry for Trek, then this is like being hungry for a decent meal and getting fast food. It comes in bright packaging, fills the hole in your belly for a while, looks good at first, tastes decent enough because everything does taste good when you are super hungry...but afterwards...you arent satisfied and wish you'd gotten a home cooked meal.

I eat regularly and I loved this movie.
I'm going back for thirds. It's that goddamn delicious.


J.

In my case I'll be going back for sevenths (is that a word?) tomorrow... What? Why are you looking at me like that? :shifty:
 
...many will come back to these forums in a few years and say "What the hell did I ever see in that film?"

To about the same extent as all the other Trek movies, yeah. ;)

Actually, except for STI and V, I've found stuff to appreciate in all the other movies.

So have I. As I do in the current film, too. I'm just not pretending that the old movies were better than they were - that is to say, for the most part any better than this one.

The opposite is true, in fact. There's possibly one previous Trek film that's as good as JJTrek - and it ain't ST:TMP. ;)

On the subject of diet, I think four times will do it for me. I've got family members, who've never been that much into Star Trek, who oddly enough are consuming more of it than I am. :)
 
I've never believed in over eating even when I've really enjoyed my meal. If I liked it then I'll try it again sometime down the road.

I will say that I will likely watch this film again at some point for a fresher look, probably when it's broadcast on TV or if I happen to learn someone I know has picked up the dvd and if I can borrow it from them.
 
I've never believed in over eating even when I've really enjoyed my meal. If I liked it then I'll try it again sometime down the road.

I will say that I will likely watch this film again at some point for a fresher look, probably when it's broadcast on TV or if I happen to learn someone I know has picked up the dvd and if I can borrow it from them.

Who knows, you may end up really liking it. That same thing happened to me with The Motion Picture. Didn't like it for well over two decades, and then one day it just clicked, and I could see the quality and effort in it.


J.
 
To about the same extent as all the other Trek movies, yeah. ;)

Actually, except for STI and V, I've found stuff to appreciate in all the other movies.

So have I. As I do in the current film, too. I'm just not pretending that the old movies were better than they were - that is to say, for the most part any better than this one.

The opposite is true, in fact. There's possibly one previous Trek film that's as good as JJTrek - and it ain't ST:TMP. ;)

So anyone who disagrees with Dennis is "pretending." Good to know.
 
I agree with all the criticisms of the film as listed above. People in this thread have listed them in more thoughtful, careful ways than I ever could. I was truly amazed by how many top level critics loved this film - it's just a fluffy summer blockbuster that will make lots of money. Ok, whatever. It will be a forgotten movie come the end of the year and many will come back to these forums in a few years and say "What the hell did I ever see in that film?"

You know (and unfotunately I'm old enough to remember first hand); critics were saying the EXACT SAME THING regarding the original 1977 release of Star Wars; and we all know how forgotten THAT film is some 32 years later, eh? ;)
 
Hi, TOS fans:
Could you please post what you really feel about the new movie?

Please, only TOS fans post.

Don't get me wrong, everybody. I like all the series and I love all you guys out there, but I am reading all kinds of reactions in other posts from people who really like either TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT and some are glad the old series was changed in the movie. TOS fans may not feel this way.

Like I said, I love all you guys, but I am really curious to see what dedicated fans of the Original Series think.
Thanks so much everybody. Love ya. :techman:

So, to the true TOS fans only......What did you like or dislike about the new film?

What exactly is a "true" TOS fan? I am a long-time TOS fan - I watched it during its original network run, and I've loved it ever since even while acknowledging its numerous flaws. I also like most of the other Trek shows. Assuming that means I still qualify...

I like the new movie - I enjoyed myself watching it, and I might even pay good money to see it again, which is something I don't often do because I'm too cheap. I don't love it, but then again, I haven't loved any of the movies, and I'd call this one of the better Trek movies. But keep in mind my overall opinion of the movies, and that is "not very high" ;).

I thought it was fun, and I thought it captured some of the original fun of TOS.

And it was wonderful seeing the NCC-1701 on the big screen again. Wonderful. Almost gave me a lump in my throat, I swear. And it was a good cast, too - I particularly liked Quinto, and that's saying something since Spock has been my favorite character since around 1967, which means I'm an extremely demanding audience.

I do think there was too much time spent in pointless action that would have been better used in filling in some of the many plot holes, but as other people have pointed out before me, all Trek has plot holes.

But this one has quite a few. Quite a few. More than it should, considering the amount of time and money that was spent on it.

Also a more satisfying villain would have been nice.

But it's fun, and since that's what it's supposed to be, I'm pretty well satisfied.
 
To me and I suspect many other trek fans the point of Star Trek (all the versions) was Roddenberry's idea: mankind becomes civilized...I got a version of Kirk that orders the death of his enemies when they won't submit (even though they're doomed anyway it seems). I cringed when I saw that - I could name a dozen stories where Kirk and ST were defined by the exact opposite actions. And for this remarkable (?) performance he's promoted to Captain.

Well, aside from not really believing that Roddenberry had any particularly highfalutin' notions about the civilized culture of the future when he was creating "Star Trek," I'll just point out that Kirk wasn't promoted for shooting down Nero. He was promoted for the little matter of saving the planet.

I don't actually buy the promotion; it was the one plot point in the movie that did bug me. But, as someone else has pointed out down in Trek Literature, when we hear stories about King Arthur we're expected to buy his being appointed King of all England for pulling a sword out of a rock.

this is today's culture with all its ills...

As the future usually is - "the present writ large" - in anything other than Utopian fiction. GR's later Utopian maundering was always in tension with the things that actually made Star Trek interesting for many people, and Trek had to be rescued from it at least twice. Maybe this film makes the third.
 
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