What did Shran call Hoshi and Mayweather?

[Guy Gardener]

Y'know, when he was loud, obnoxious and speciest, while he was screaming at Archer for being a Pinkskin, and recently in that Good the men do novel that he sweltered at an Orion Slaver for being a Greenskin, what did he call the obviously differently hued humans?

Say it... Say it...

 

[Hippokrene]

I'd assume Brownskin and Pinkskin. I doubt an Andorian would see that much difference between Hoshi and Archer's coloring.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I didn't want to exclude Hoshi. Poor girl never got half the screen time she deserved.

Obviously, I'm curious about the sort of backlash which would have happened on and off camera if this obvious extension of Shran's gentle bigotry had made it into the script... Because frankly I found it disheartening that Archer tolerated the label "Pink Skin" and even answered to it.

Then you have to wonder about how disrespectful he was to his wife, that he taught this type of division to their daughter?

 

[Hippokrene]

If Jeffery Combs wasn't as good an actor as he is, I think Shran would have come off as much more slimy and villainous than he did. I mean, other than the bigotry, torture, and plans to execute a group of Vulcan monks for a piece of equipment he couldn't find, Shran was a swell guy.

 

[bluedana]

Because frankly I found it disheartening that Archer tolerated the label "Pink Skin" and even answered to it.

There is a point where Shran starts to say, "Pinkskin," and Archer gives him a "knock it off" glare. Shran swallows the word and apologizes. My disks are on loan, so I can't look it up for you. Probably Babel One.

I assume Shran would have called Mayweather "brown skin," as it's accurate, but I doubt Mayweather would have had the same visceral reaction we the audience would, since it culturally would have little or no context.

 

[Ceridwen]

bluedana said:
I assume Shran would have called Mayweather "brown skin," as it's accurate, but I doubt Mayweather would have had the same visceral reaction we the audience would, since it culturally would have little or no context.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. It's true that Uhura was far enough removed from a racist Earth that she didn't respond negatively to being referred to as "Negress" but that was more than a century later. The United Earth concept is so new to these people that Tucker displays quite a bit of American pride in "Shuttlepod One". Obviously nationalism isn't entirely gone yet (though they're certainly well on their way to eliminating it). Racism and nationalism have their roots in similar ideology, the idea that your "group" is superior to another "group," and since a little bit of nationalism still exists, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a little bit of racism is still there as well.

That said, you're probably right in that Mayweather himself may not have had much of a reaction to it. Not because racism doesn't exist on Earth at this point in time, but because he was raised on a spaceship, so whether or not it exists on Earth, he wouldn't have been exposed to it. His "us" vs. "them" mentality would've been geared more in the direction of "Boomers" vs. "Earthers." We've seen this mentality displayed by other freighter crews throughout the series, and it would have been a very interesting character arc to watch Mayweather struggle with this in himself. He's "native" to space, this is his home, but now he's part of a crew of people who act like they know his home better than he does.

(But that's the writer in me peeking through, and I should stop before I get carried away.)

 

[bluedana]

That said, you're probably right in that Mayweather himself may not have had much of a reaction to it. Not because racism doesn't exist on Earth at this point in time, but because he was raised on a spaceship, so whether or not it exists on Earth, he wouldn't have been exposed to it.

That is precisely what I meant. Mayweather doesn't come with the baggage of Earth's history.

 

[redcat]

Ensign.

(Sorry; it was THAT kind of a day today.)

Red

Old Bat of the Galaxy

 

[Sci]

Ceridwen Troy said:
The United Earth concept is so new to these people that Tucker displays quite a bit of American pride in "Shuttlepod One". Obviously nationalism isn't entirely gone yet (though they're certainly well on their way to eliminating it). Racism and nationalism have their roots in similar ideology, the idea that your "group" is superior to another "group,"

I'm going to have to object here. What Tucker displayed in "Shuttlepod One" was not nationalism -- it was far too tame and far more obviously designed to tease Malcolm than to express a genuine political sentiment. It was, as you put it, "American pride," or, if you prefer, patriotism. While you're right in saying that nationalism is based on the concept that one's nation is superior to others, patriotism is not necessarily so, anymore than love for one's family is based on the idea that one's own family is superior to other families. And there's nothing wrong with that kind of patriotism, for a citizen of any country, since all the world's nations are beautiful and unique in their own way.

His "us" vs. "them" mentality would've been geared more in the direction of "Boomers" vs. "Earthers." We've seen this mentality displayed by other freighter crews throughout the series, and it would have been a very interesting character arc to watch Mayweather struggle with this in himself. He's "native" to space, this is his home, but now he's part of a crew of people who act like they know his home better than he does.

And yet the character was rather consistently written as though he were naive and inexperienced compared to those characters. Go figure!

 

[joncreed]

The franchise was always too damn PC. They could've had an entire episode with Montgomery and Coombs trapped together on a planet or whatever and discussing Earth's racial differences in comparison to Andoria's majority Blue master race. Would've been funny and interesting if written correctly and finally given Anthony Montgomery a moment to shine.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Why didn't Shran call Tellarites "pigskins"?

 

[Red Ranger]

joncreed said:
The franchise was always too damn PC. They could've had an entire episode with Montgomery and Coombs trapped together on a planet or whatever and discussing Earth's racial differences in comparison to Andoria's majority Blue master race. Would've been funny and interesting if written correctly and finally given Anthony Montgomery a moment to shine.

Sounds like a good idea for a novel! After all, there's six years of NX-01's mission unaccounted for, if I remember right -- didn't TATV take place after the ship had been in space for 10 years? -- RR

 

[Smiley]

Not exactly. According to the novel The Good That Men Do, the purported events of TATV occurred in 2155, not 2161, because of a cover-up.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The novel is Tosh, and it's ridiculous to assume history can rearranged like that with out a great deal of people suspecting a conspiracy, especially his family.

It's more noteable that Archer was Ambassador to Anodria from 2165 to 2175 according to that pc read out in In A Mirror Darkly II. 10 years of an entire world screeching Pinkskin this, and Pinkskin that.

 

[Hippokrene]

If Andorians were real, I'd think they'd be more likely to focus on the lack of antenna as opposed to skin color.

 

[Odon]

I think Shran would have called Mayweather "Toothy" and Hoshi "Hugehead".

 

[Sci]

joncreed said:
The franchise was always too damn PC. They could've had an entire episode with Montgomery and Coombs trapped together on a planet or whatever and discussing Earth's racial differences in comparison to Andoria's majority Blue master race. Would've been funny and interesting if written correctly and finally given Anthony Montgomery a moment to shine.

Actually, I doubt there'd be much to say, since there are no racial differences amongst humans from a scientific standpoint. Humans are too genetically similar for any particular group to constitute a separate "race" -- we're all the same race. We do, however, have different clines.

 

[Sephiroth]

shran called Mayweather "that quiet one in the corner" and Called Hoshi for a date after the negotiations had ended

 

[Nebusj]

Sephiroth said:
shran called Mayweather "that quiet one in the corner" and Called Hoshi for a date after the negotiations had ended

Probably called them ``the non-player characters''.

 

[Kegek]

I think it's interesting this was never raised on the show, actually, and the Andorian racial perjorative stuck to a Caucasian analogy. Probably because that's less offensive, or there's more Caucasian characters, or whatever.

I mean, why didn't they just call them 'roundears'? No antennae, no pointed ears... these guys are nuts! I'm stretching, I know...