What Class Was 1701?

[Captain Robert April]

I'm not sure Bjo was ever aware of the graphic, but Greg Jein definitely was (he cites it in his article in that issue of T-Negative, although he incorrectly attributes it to "Space Seed"), and apparently he was doing some work on TOS (probably as a gofer, but I'm certainly open to correction there).

Either way, all roads lead back to Roddenberry.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^Good point. Bjo could well have gotten her "constitution Class" factoid direct from Roddenberry? But I don't think we know exactly when Jein got hold of the graphic, do we? But his T-Negitive article wasn't "published" until 1975. Here's a link to a copy if anyone's interested... http://www.trekplace.com/article10.html

P.S. On a related note, it just occurred to me; FJ's BoGP were published in 1973, and since they feature the "Model MK-IX" and "Starship Class I" references, he must have had access to TTWT's graphic info before Jein published his article in T-Negitive? So FJ must have gotten them from his daughter through Bjo or Greg? Curiouser and Curiouser?

 

[Vance]

I will do a quick apology. I have a British copy of TMoSt (Titan, 1991) and it seems to have some liberal editing in it. It also has major problems with typography, making it hard at times to seperate letters from the 'prose' of the book. Still a useful book, all in all, but it's easy for my tired gray-matter to get all muddly with it.

 

[Captain Robert April]

^ Well, now, that's got me curious...

 

[alchemist]

^^Good point. Bjo could well have gotten her "constitution Class" factoid direct from Roddenberry? But I don't think we know exactly when Jein got hold of the graphic, do we? But his T-Negitive article wasn't "published" until 1975. Here's a link to a copy if anyone's interested... http://www.trekplace.com/article10.html

P.S. On a related note, it just occurred to me; FJ's BoGP were published in 1973, and since they feature the "Model MK-IX" and "Starship Class I" references, he must have had access to TTWT's graphic info before Jein published his article in T-Negitive? So FJ must have gotten them from his daughter through Bjo or Greg? Curiouser and Curiouser?

The graphic from TTWT that GJ used in his T-Negative article was obtained from a film clip. It is suggested in the script of that episode that we see a close-up of the page from Scotty's technical journal and the director obliged by filming one. GJ, a film clip collector, may have obtained his in the early 70's (when I did) either directly from Lincoln or from another collector.

Greg's article published in T-Negative #27, "The Case of Jonathan Doe Starship," has been retyped on trekplace.com. What is missing is Ruth Berman's original intro for it:

"In T-N 23 Steve VanderArk asked about the registry numbers of starships other than the Enterprise - - to which I forthrightly replied that I didn't know. Thereupon several readers sent a summary of an article by Greg Jein which he'd done for fellow ship enthusiasts but hadn't published, and soon after Greg sent the article itself; I didn't want to print just a summary, so waited till I had space for the whole."

T-Negative 23 was published in July, 1974. Thus, one can infer that GJ put his treatise together in 1974 or earlier.

BTW, FJ started working on his BoGP on Sept 21, 1973 and completed it on Dec 14, 1973. The first copies were sold at Equicon 74 on April 12-14.

 

[Racer_X]

...Just for a refresher, is there some TOS scene where the dedication plaque is seen up close?

Yes, in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". And now that Trekcore has uploaded Blu-ray screencaps of that episode, the dedication plaque can be read quite clearly. Check out the 4 images in the lower-left:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=79&page=70

 

[Timo]

Ah, we learn that the plaque says USS ENTERP, STARSHIP CLAS...

...So a little room for speculation remains.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TIN_MAN]

Thanks achemist, I figured Jein (and others) got a clip from Lincoln since they were selling slides at the time, but I wasn't sure if there actually was a slide of it, or just some kind of reproduction of the original graphic?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Well, there's no way in hell he could've gotten that level of detail from a film clip from the episode (the fact that he misidentified the episode is proof enough that he didn't anyway), so he had to have somehow gotten ahold of an isolated pic of the graphic itself.

 

[alchemist]

Well, there's no way in hell he could've gotten that level of detail from a film clip from the episode (the fact that he misidentified the episode is proof enough that he didn't anyway), so he had to have somehow gotten ahold of an isolated pic of the graphic itself.

I may not have been totally clear in my earlier reply. When I said that:

"It is suggested in the script of that episode that we see a close-up of the page from Scotty's technical journal and the director obliged by filming one."

I should have also added, immediately after that sentence:

"This close-up was to have been matted as an insert on stock monitor screen footage so that the audience could also see the page from Scotty's POV. Unfortunately, this angle and insert close-up were not used. However, film clips from both the insert shot and the insert (graphic) matted on the monitor screen were sold by Lincoln."

I don't think the fact the Mr. Jein misidentified the episode from which the clip came is necessarily proof that he didn't have the clip.

 

[TIN_MAN]

On a related note, does anyone know if the same graphic was used in "space seed" or not? It's been suggested that it was, but this could be misinformation based on Jein's article?

 

[GSchnitzer]

On a related note, does anyone know if the same graphic was used in "space seed" or not? It's been suggested that it was, but this could be misinformation based on Jein's article?

It looks to be simple misinformation. It's hard to know if the comment stems from Greg Jein's original article or if that erroneous data point was introduced when the article was html-ified for the web. (Does anyone have that old T-Negative article?)

Here's the shot from "Space Seed." With the exploded view and the callouts and the legend at the bottom, it looks to be an entirely different diagram than the "TTWT" diagram.

 

[alchemist]

On a related note, does anyone know if the same graphic was used in "space seed" or not? It's been suggested that it was, but this could be misinformation based on Jein's article?

The page from the technical manual that Khan studied in sickbay is not the same one as shown in TTWT.

Edit: Greg beat me to the punch. But I do have that original T-Negative fanzine and the graphic/film clip in GJ's article is misidentified as having originated from "The Space Seed."

 

[Warped9]

On a related note, does anyone know if the same graphic was used in "space seed" or not? It's been suggested that it was, but this could be misinformation based on Jein's article?

It looks to be simple misinformation. It's hard to know if the comment stems from Greg Jein's original article or if that erroneous data point was introduced when the article was html-ified for the web. (Does anyone have that old T-Negative article?)

Here's the shot from "Space Seed." With the exploded view and the callouts and the legend at the bottom, it looks to be an entirely different diagram than the "TTWT" diagram.

Has anyone ever seen a clear copy of that drawing. I'd love to know what it is or if it's something they just slapped in there.

 

[Green Shirt]

It sure looks nothing like anything specially made for Trek that has been seen over the years. A random drawing ripped from a book?

 

[TIN_MAN]

Hey, new art thread project anyone? It'd be great to see what people could come up with by extrapolating from that drawing -not that there's much to go on- but still, it could be fun?

 

[RAMA]

Constitution

 

[Green Shirt]

Starship

 

[RAMA]

Constitution

 

[Nerys Myk]

Rabbit Season