And the first shuttle was originally called Constitution until fans of the show lobbied to get it renamed to Enterprise.
What Class Was 1701?
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
It all depends on how you want to look it STAR TREK.
THE UBER-T.O.S.-PURIST POSITION:
If you want to isolate TOS, and preserve it unto itself, ignoring everything that followed, then there was only one class of starship-of-the-line in the Federation Star Fleet: literally the "Star Ship Class". There may have been lesser capital ships, but the Enterprise and her sisterships were beheld as "not just a spaceship, but a starship... a very special vessel and crew". And since every Federation starship the Enterprise ever encountered looked exactly like her (or was very close, as in the case of the AMT-modeled Constellation) then it would be safe to conclude (in a TOS-only interpretation) that the term "Federation starship" and "Star Ship Class" meant a fleet of ships based on the same basic design: the Enterprise. In this context, depending on how you interpret dialogue between characters on Federation history, the Federation could be either a few decades old or about a century old, and presumably Starfleet would be the same age. So it is conceivable that, if we logically assume that the Federation is x years old and has presumably deployed Star Ship Class vessels for a similar length of time, the Star Ship Class would have been around for x years at the time of TOS. This would make Kirk's boast to Capt. Christopher ("Tomorrow is Yesterday") that "there are twelve like it in the fleet" pretty tricky, unless you assume the entire Federation has only twelve or thirteen starships-of-the-line. Was Kirk talking about just Earth-built starships? Or maybe the Enterprise is part of an elite subset of newer Star Ship Class vessels which would be outfitted with superior equipment over other, older sisterships? We'll never know.
Then there's the broader STAR TREK franchise...
ALL-INCLUSIVE "PRIME UNIVERSE" POSITION
It's been pretty clearly established by canon and backed up by literature that the TOS Enterprise was a Constitution-class Starship, which is itself a starship-of-the-line further categorized as part of the Class I starships. Presumably, this is derived from the notion that the S.S. Beagle ("Bread and Circuses") was a lesser "class four stardrive vessel, crew of forty-seven" and so Franz Joseph declared Connies, Saladins, Hermes' and Ptolemy's to be first-class. (Of course, FJ never drew a Class I starship design to match the ST2 Reliant; Reliant, of course, did not make its debut until 7 years after the Tech Manual)
Don't look now, but FJ's 1975 Tech Manual also suggested that various Class I starship classes are also subdivided into progressive subclasses. Apparently, this was FJ's way of allowing for redesigns and refits over time; just as Pike's Enterprise appeared to slowly evolve into the TMP refit over the years, so each change may have chronicled a "subclass" design update. Many fanon design publications picked up on this idea and ran with it.
It is interesting to drift back and forth between discussions and points-of-view in this line of thought. I'm not strongly wed to either one. I do think it is interesting (and a little amusing) to explore a TREK universe in which there's only one "Star Ship Class", though.
THE UBER-T.O.S.-PURIST POSITION:
If you want to isolate TOS, and preserve it unto itself, ignoring everything that followed, then there was only one class of starship-of-the-line in the Federation Star Fleet: literally the "Star Ship Class". There may have been lesser capital ships, but the Enterprise and her sisterships were beheld as "not just a spaceship, but a starship... a very special vessel and crew". And since every Federation starship the Enterprise ever encountered looked exactly like her (or was very close, as in the case of the AMT-modeled Constellation) then it would be safe to conclude (in a TOS-only interpretation) that the term "Federation starship" and "Star Ship Class" meant a fleet of ships based on the same basic design: the Enterprise. In this context, depending on how you interpret dialogue between characters on Federation history, the Federation could be either a few decades old or about a century old, and presumably Starfleet would be the same age. So it is conceivable that, if we logically assume that the Federation is x years old and has presumably deployed Star Ship Class vessels for a similar length of time, the Star Ship Class would have been around for x years at the time of TOS. This would make Kirk's boast to Capt. Christopher ("Tomorrow is Yesterday") that "there are twelve like it in the fleet" pretty tricky, unless you assume the entire Federation has only twelve or thirteen starships-of-the-line. Was Kirk talking about just Earth-built starships? Or maybe the Enterprise is part of an elite subset of newer Star Ship Class vessels which would be outfitted with superior equipment over other, older sisterships? We'll never know.
Then there's the broader STAR TREK franchise...
ALL-INCLUSIVE "PRIME UNIVERSE" POSITION
It's been pretty clearly established by canon and backed up by literature that the TOS Enterprise was a Constitution-class Starship, which is itself a starship-of-the-line further categorized as part of the Class I starships. Presumably, this is derived from the notion that the S.S. Beagle ("Bread and Circuses") was a lesser "class four stardrive vessel, crew of forty-seven" and so Franz Joseph declared Connies, Saladins, Hermes' and Ptolemy's to be first-class. (Of course, FJ never drew a Class I starship design to match the ST2 Reliant; Reliant, of course, did not make its debut until 7 years after the Tech Manual)
Don't look now, but FJ's 1975 Tech Manual also suggested that various Class I starship classes are also subdivided into progressive subclasses. Apparently, this was FJ's way of allowing for redesigns and refits over time; just as Pike's Enterprise appeared to slowly evolve into the TMP refit over the years, so each change may have chronicled a "subclass" design update. Many fanon design publications picked up on this idea and ran with it.
It is interesting to drift back and forth between discussions and points-of-view in this line of thought. I'm not strongly wed to either one. I do think it is interesting (and a little amusing) to explore a TREK universe in which there's only one "Star Ship Class", though.
Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Specifically, no, but it's not an unreasonable assumption.Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Specifically, no, but it's not an unreasonable assumption.Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Really? From that diagram, I see only that the Constitution Class must resemble a great big flash bulb.
Oh I agree, it's a reasonable assumption, especially in light of everything that came after.
Starship Class simply was the concept they came up for the "city in space" type spacecraft. They tried to make a ship type sound futuristic instead of just calling it a cruiser or battleship...it was conceptual. When they actually got into series they decided to make it a Constitution Class ship, and that is how it has remained.
Apparently the fact that it says "Constitution Class", starship phaser bank means nothing to you?
RAMA
Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Apparently the fact that it says "Constitution Class", starship phaser bank means nothing to you?
RAMA
Maybe it's a "Constitution Class"Phaser.
With "We The People" setting.
Scotty's reading this to "catch up on my technical journals". It's arguable this phaser design for the Constitution class is new intended for a newer class of ship.Starship Class simply was the concept they came up for the "city in space" type spacecraft. They tried to make a ship type sound futuristic instead of just calling it a cruiser or battleship...it was conceptual. When they actually got into series they decided to make it a Constitution Class ship, and that is how it has remained.
Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Apparently the fact that it says "Constitution Class", starship phaser bank means nothing to you?
RAMA
Now, that's not the position I hold, but based on what we're presented with during ST, it's as valid an interpretation as the standard "current phasers on the current ship" one.
Yes. Normally the purpose of reading, studying, or "catching up" is to learn about something one knows little or nothing about.
Anyway, its fun to read about everybody's opinion on this and other subjects here, even if I'm right, and those who disagree with me are wrong.
This is true or he may love that old manual from 2241 he's reading it again. My point was without any other context, an illegible graphic onscreen doesn't constitute a definitive reference point as to what class or type of vessel the Enterprise was.
TOS was made at a time when I think there was still some measure of romanticism attached to science fiction, unlike today when it seems like every little nut-and-bolt idea has to be nailed down to be accepted as believable.
Today it's reasonably well understood that any vehicle, sublight or FTL, that can cross interstellar distances is in fact a starship. Back in the '60s not so much.
It's also possible that in TOS' 23rd century the term starship could come to mean something more specialized than how it's seen today. Perhaps in TOS' time a starship is the kind of vehicle designated to go beyond the normal range of most interstellar spacecraft. It's meant to venture beyond established routes to cross into unknown regions and can operate independently without routine support for greatly extended periods.
In that way the Enterprise can be a Starship Class vessel as well a more specific Constitution-class ship which is in turn a type of Heavy Cruiser class.
I must say I was a bit intrigued with an idea of Masao's from his Starfleet Museum site which seems to suggest that there could be more than one design of Heavy Cruiser and it looks quite different than the Enterprise type design.
Today it's reasonably well understood that any vehicle, sublight or FTL, that can cross interstellar distances is in fact a starship. Back in the '60s not so much.
It's also possible that in TOS' 23rd century the term starship could come to mean something more specialized than how it's seen today. Perhaps in TOS' time a starship is the kind of vehicle designated to go beyond the normal range of most interstellar spacecraft. It's meant to venture beyond established routes to cross into unknown regions and can operate independently without routine support for greatly extended periods.
In that way the Enterprise can be a Starship Class vessel as well a more specific Constitution-class ship which is in turn a type of Heavy Cruiser class.
I must say I was a bit intrigued with an idea of Masao's from his Starfleet Museum site which seems to suggest that there could be more than one design of Heavy Cruiser and it looks quite different than the Enterprise type design.
Starship Class simply was the concept they came up for the "city in space" type spacecraft. They tried to make a ship type sound futuristic instead of just calling it a cruiser or battleship...it was conceptual. When they actually got into series they decided to make it a Constitution Class ship, and that is how it has remained.
Yes... it was from The Trouble with Tribbles.
Of course the name Constitution wasn't brought up among TOS production until the middle of the second season, and it was a fan (Greg Jein) who first link 1700 with the name Constitution.
This is also where Franz Joseph got his "MK IX/01" designation for his tech manual from.
In all fairness though, In the context of TOS alone, there's nothing here to indicate that the diagram Scotty is looking at has anything to do with the Enterprise or vessels like her.
Apparently the fact that it says "Constitution Class", starship phaser bank means nothing to you?
RAMA
Apparently the fact that I said "In the context of TOS alone" means nothing to you?
Remember, at the time, it had not been established (on screen) that the Enterprise was a Constitution class vessel! Besides, going just by what's seen on screen here (or not visable as was the case, actually) nobody in the viewing audience at the time even knew what this said.
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Because folks are trying to figure out when it was established or likely considered as such.
Maybe we've got it wrong. It's not a starship, a ship that travels between stars: it's a star ship, a ship that's the star of the series and hence is invulnerable, unless the plot calls for it.
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