What channel should a new Trek TV series be on?

[Temis the Vorta]

CBS and Paramount would want this show to reach the widest range of audience possible

Not necessarily. A large potential audience means large ratings expectations that Star Trek cannot meet. A niche strategy might be the smarter move.

so it will either be on the CW or CBS.

Those networks have specific demographic strategies that are poor matches for Star Trek.

CW = girls and women, 18-30 or thereabouts.

CBS = casting a wide net for Middle America by creating lowest-common-denomentator programming.

Star Trek appeals disporpotionately to males, and it doesn't appeal to Middle America. Of all the networks, the best demographic match is FOX. But all the networks are too broad appeal/non-nichey for Star Trek so cable is a better bet.

Look at how ABC is doing V

You obviously haven't checked the ratings if you're using that show as a successful example of a sci fi show. ABC renewed it to save face because its entire 2009-10 lineup would have been a bust otherwise and it didn't suck quite as badly as the rest of the options.

You have to remember it is about ratings and it has to good.

It's not about ratings. It's about expectations of ratings. Viewership levels that constitute an abject failure on CBS are a stunning success on cable. Context is everything.

But yeah, it does have to be good. One heartening trend lately is how intolerant audiences are of flawed shows like V, FlashForward and Heroes. When shows start to suck, or suck from the start, they are rewarded with cancellation. Good for us. We should have to put up with shit.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

If cable is a possibility what about a deal with a specific satellite operator DirecTV?

Even if it is after Star Trek XII since CBS doesn't like sci fi genre shows (including Trek) in general what about DirectTV's The 101 network available only to DirecTV subscribers in the United States.
NBC made a deal DirectTV with Friday Night Lights to air on The 101 Network & months later on NBC.
Couldn't CBS Television make some kind of deal like this? with The 101 Network airing first and CW airing them later?

A large potential audience means large ratings expectations that Star Trek cannot meet. A niche strategy might be the smarter move.

Would CBS Television feel that it would be losing too much money only on satellite with a certain number of subscribers rather than commit to 13 episodes to air on a network with more potential ratings?

Is Star Trek that mainstream that is beyond being able to have its flagship TV series 1st run on a cable TV channel and it has to be broadcast TV?

 

[jefferiestubes8]

TV business model Trek series 6

from another thread that I thought would be appropriate to address here:

Sci fi has never appealled particularly well to the female demographic, yet shows with spaceships and aliens used to survive just fine with mostly male audiences.

Regarging science fiction (not Trek solely)

you have a tiny audience and a business model based on advertising, which is only really suited to the mass audience that TV used to have. Appealing strongly to a niche audience instead of sort of appealing to a large audience, isn't something anyone's figured out how to monetize well.

I thought one of the channels under Viacom did monetize it [the Male demographic] and made it a selection in this thread's poll:

Spike [formerly Spike TV] cable/satellite TV channel (a division of MTV Networks, owned by Viacom)

Although no one voted for it. Temis the Vorta you yourself said:

Spike - Cmon, Trek is better than that.

We know Trek has a large fan base and there is interest for content. Does CBS Television make it niche or do they go or wide appeal and bland it down to broadcast television standards in a world where that model isn't going to get very good ratings.

How do you translate interest into dollars? DVD sales won't take up the slack

Well TPTB & CBS Television know that home video sales of Trek series are very profitable.
So instead of having a linear network have Trek series 6 as a video-on-demand-ONLY subscription-type offering of the show itself instead of a premium subscription channel such as Showtime or Epix HD? I suggested this on another poll in Future of Trek
Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download

Unless you go the premium route which can survive with a higher budget and fewer viewers but results in a very different show from what previous Trek has been.

It isn't such a bad thing but I guess it is how would the Trek franchise be perceived if it moved to cable, premium cable, or a subscription video-on-demand only mode?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Does CBS Television make it niche or do they go or wide appeal and bland it down to broadcast television standards in a world where that model isn't going to get very good ratings.

If they bland it down, it will cease to be Star Trek and will not appeal to anyone, so that strategy is a non-starter.

I'm increasingly thinking that for CBS to bother with Star Trek, it must be on one of the outlets they own: CBS, CW, Showtime. Why go to a lot of trouble to provide content for some other company? CBS and CW are extremely wrong for Star Trek, so who knows, maybe Showtime is the answer after all?

Then the question becomes: does Showtime think Star Trek is right for it? They're trying to be HBO Junior (with the aim of parity with HBO in perception of quality content). Star Trek is associated with free TV; why should you pay a premium price to get Star Trek? Shouldn't Showtime be doing more prestigious stuff, or at least stuff where people wear fancy historical costumes?

So instead of having a linear network have Trek series 6 as a video-on-demand-ONLY subscription-type offering of the show itself instead of a premium subscription channel such as Showtime or Epix HD? I suggested this on another poll in Future of Trek
Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download

The TV biz is a long, long way from being able to fund an expensive series like Star Trek on the puny revenues you can get from downloads, and it would be madness to undermine a premium brand name by doing it on the cheap in order to make puny revenues (which nobody in the professional TV biz will do, simply because its a waste of their time when they could be chasing the big bucks instead making another CSI spinoff). Better to leave that stuff to borderline web productions that are "inspired" by Star Trek but don't have the rights to use the name (if they're making any money at all).

It isn't such a bad thing but I guess it is how would the Trek franchise be perceived if it moved to cable, premium cable, or a subscription video-on-demand only mode?

Star Trek's image would improve. The question is the reverse: would Showtime's image improve? Or would its subscribers wonder why they are paying for a franchise that used to be on free TV?

 

[jefferiestubes8]

for CBS to bother with Star Trek, it must be on one of the outlets they own: CBS, CW, Showtime. Why go to a lot of trouble to provide content for some other company? CBS and CW are extremely wrong for Star Trek, so who knows, maybe Showtime is the answer after all?

Then the question becomes: does Showtime think Star Trek is right for it? They're trying to be HBO Junior (with the aim of parity with HBO in perception of quality content). Star Trek is associated with free TV; why should you pay a premium price to get Star Trek?

Here is a 7-year old estimate:

ACNielsen estimated in 2003 that CBS can be seen in 96.98% of all American households, reaching 103,421,270 homes in the United States.

As ngc7293 pointed out I don't need to have Star Trek on one of the largest TV networks to get it. Hell I'd rather have it without commercials too. Are fans willing to pay for that too?

caisson2delta made the point:

there might be a lot of current or future fans who might not want to pay extra to watch. I seem to remember Stargate SG1 starting out there and did so so. it didn't prosper until it got to Sci Fi. [SyFy]

although

Look what Sirius satellite radio did with Howard Stern a few years ago. It is possible Star Trek could be on a premium cable channel and the fans who don't want to pay the monthly fee can just by the DVD/Blu-ray 6-10 months later.

would Showtime think they would gain X number of subscribers with the next 13-episode Star Trek TV series season 1?

The question is the reverse: would Showtime's image improve? Or would its subscribers wonder why they are paying for a franchise that used to be on free TV?

An older TV series may have been on TV and now TV models are different and AMC & HBO, FX, Showtime get the best TV series.
I think though CBS Studios (who own Star Trek on TV) would feel they were losing too much in advertising revenue.
But even if it were only distributed in the USA on Showtime all of the foreign markets are still available for distribution as well as the home video sales.

 

[peteym5]

I do not think CBS will outright risk a Star Trek on the CBS network itself. That is unless they can put something really good together that 10million+ viewers will watch. You have to pull in some major actors, writers, and producers to put in together. Probably have to something like have Riker be the captain, along with a few other big actors on the show to be on CBS. The big networks will try to do things with Star Power and won't bother with a cast of unknowns.

If its a all new cast, it will most likely be on the CW network because it is a smaller network that already has a few running horror, fantasy shows, and similar type shows. The series will be first run on a broadcast network, I don't see doing it working on premium cable.

A new show would have to as good or better than Star Trek:The Next Generation 3rd & 4th season from the get go. It has to achieve high ratings in its first season. It cannot be like TNGs & DS9s 1st season, or most of Voyager & Enterprise. Its going to need a lot of good stories with establish characters.

I do not think anything is going to happen until after 2012 and that is if the next movie does well.

 

[Ralphis]

Spike: Free on cable. not even scifi mostly csi or ECW or the like

It's TNA Wrestling, not ECW.

 

[Ralphis]

I made an honest effort to read all previous posts before I wrote mine, but there's a LOT of info here so I may have messed something. If I do repeat something, please forgive me.

As others have pointed out, CBS and CW are terrible places for Star Trek. But I thought I remember reading somewhere (can't remember where so I can't provide a source) that CBS Television Studios at some point in 2009 decided to only produce shows for CBS and The CW. If that's that case, then under that model there seems to be no place for a new Star Trek show. Would they make an exception for Star Trek? There are some good choices out there, but would CBS Television Studios be open to it? I don't know how that stuff works, that's why I ask.

Now, I realize that Viacom and CBS Corporation are now ran as two completely different companies, but they're still owned by the same parent company (National Amusements). With that in mind, would they be open to airing a new Star Trek show on Spike? I know a few posters have expressed their disdain for Spike already, but the channel may be the only place that is both the most logical place AND the most realistic place for a new Star Trek show-- especially if the new show kept the tone and the pace of the new movie. Spike and Star Trek have an extensive history together. Plus, Star Trek can still be found on Spike (albeit in the form of ST:Voy late night re-runs... but it's still there). And there's still some sci-fi on Spike-- How many times have they ran the Star Wars movies? There's another Star Wars marathon planned for this weekend.

So I think Spike is best logical place THAT'S ALSO the most realistic.

 

[zirron]

Actually I think Star Trek should stay in theaters. I don't think it works as a TV show any longer. Too much schism in viewership plus you have competing mediums that draw the real demographic that advertisers want 18 - 35 are now inundated with so many other options that network TV is not viable. Creative series fizzle out after a season and are canceled now. I suspect Star Trek would be among that contingent to fizzle after a few episodes. There's just not enough streamline for an entire demographic to reconnect to a science fiction show.

The reason TNG worked is it existed before the Internet exploded and all subsequent series dwindled in viewership.

I like Star Trek, but I don't think it works on network TV and if you put it on Showtime... for pay-TV then you lose even more of that coveted demographic.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Actually I think Star Trek should stay in theaters. I don't think it works as a TV show any longer. Too much schism in viewership

What schism in viewership? Trek died on TV because of the schism between the business models of network and cable TV, but there's no schism between TV and movie viewers of Star Trek.

plus you have competing mediums

TV and movies do not compete directly. Handled properly, Trek could have parallel TV and movie series that support each other.

that draw the real demographic that advertisers want 18 - 35 are now inundated with so many other options that network TV is not viable.

So put it on cable.

Creative series fizzle out after a season and are canceled now.

I guess you've never heard of Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, Big Love, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, True Blood, or Curb Your Enthusiasm - just for starters. And howsabout that Futurama! Can't stay cancelled. Those appeal to niche audiences and most (possibly all, I haven't checked) survive nicely on less viewership than ENT was cancelled for getting.

The reason TNG worked is it existed before the Internet exploded and all subsequent series dwindled in viewership.

Well yeah, so Star Trek doesn't belong on network TV. Put it on cable.

I like Star Trek, but I don't think it works on network TV and if you put it on Showtime... for pay-TV then you lose even more of that coveted demographic.

If you put it on Showtime, then the advertising demographic no longer matters because Showtime is subscription-based. If Star Trek can draw subscribers, it'll be golden. (The real problem is not whether Star Trek can survive on Showtime but whether Showtime would want Star Trek.)

 

[corairs]

If there is one i hope it's on Sy-fy are cabel if it's on Showtime are HBO are Starzs ill heve to look at it on DVD . b

 

[highlyillogical]

Who voted for CW???

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'd really like to see it on a cable channel like HBO or Showtime since they can get away with more stuff.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Who voted for CW???

CW and Showtime are the only realistic answers because CBS owns them and isn't going to make a show for a competitor to air. CBS itself is unlikely because they have zero interest in sci fi (they are the only one of the five networks with no sf/f programming now or debuting next season), their audience is totally wrong, and the fact that their shows get strong ratings means that Star Trek would probably need 10M+ to survive and there's no way it would ever get that. Star Trek needs to be someplace it can survive as a niche show.

CW had a space opera pilot in contention for the coming season. It wasn't picked up, but that did demonstrate interest. Showtime launched Stargate way back when; maybe they'd be interested in going back to space opera someday.

Of the two, I'd say CW is slightly more likely because they seem to be expanding from young female demo and adding young male (natural for space opera); and it's been a long time since Showtime had Stargate. HBO has made noises about doing sci fi series, but I haven't heard boo from Showtime to demonstrate any interest in that area.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Definitely not CBS. It would not live past one season, two at the most. It's interesting to note that the new V has been renewed, but I don't overly anticipate it surviving into year three. Plus, a new Star Trek would probably cost more, because... yeah. No, it certainly would.

Possibly the CW. That network has Supernatural, which can actually be decent sometimes when it isn't making sure to shove breasts at the younger demographic. That would still be a big concern of mine. We saw how much T'Pol-flashing went on with Enterprise. The same thing would most assuredly happen again, and it could be very distracting.

Spike would be a horrible, horrifying choice. Seven of Nine and T'Pol won't have had anything on the outfits that network would force.

SyFy is probably the best choice overall, and then its survival would definitely depend upon critical reception. It would get four or five years if it gets half the positive buzz BSG got. The problem here is that I don't think CBS would let this happen. They'd say SyFy can't provide the money for it, and they'd probably be right. I read in the past that there was a brief flirtation with the idea that SyFy (Sci-Fi) then would take Enterprise for a fifth season, akin to its investments in Andromeda and Sliders in the past. The big idea was that the network just couldn't afford it, or so I hear.

Showtime wouldn't be able to guarantee the numbers CBS would want. Stargate SG-1 was considered reasonably profitable on that network for the five initial years it was with them, and I think it pulled like 400k-600k viewers or so per week. Suffice it to say, that's not the kind of numbers CBS would want. Enterprise was shot dead after four seasons because it was only pulling like 1.6 million viewers. I mean, yes, it's a different environment. But I don't know that the production values and all that would mesh with that sort of thing. I will easily confess I don't understand much at all about how premium cable networks operate, though. HBO gets all these high-end dramas but never rakes in the digits that even regular cable networks aim for. How they get away with it I don't understand.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Who voted for CW???

CW and Showtime are the only realistic answers because CBS owns them and isn't going to make a show for a competitor to air. CBS itself is unlikely because they have zero interest in sci fi (they are the only one of the five networks with no sf/f programming now or debuting next season), their audience is totally wrong, and the fact that their shows get strong ratings means that Star Trek would probably need 10M+ to survive and there's no way it would ever get that. Star Trek needs to be someplace it can survive as a niche show.

Oh man, you're right, ABC is the one doing V, not CBS. Dammit.

 

[AviTrek]

Showtime wouldn't be able to guarantee the numbers CBS would want. Stargate SG-1 was considered reasonably profitable on that network for the five initial years it was with them, and I think it pulled like 400k-600k viewers or so per week. Suffice it to say, that's not the kind of numbers CBS would want. Enterprise was shot dead after four seasons because it was only pulling like 1.6 million viewers. I mean, yes, it's a different environment. But I don't know that the production values and all that would mesh with that sort of thing. I will easily confess I don't understand much at all about how premium cable networks operate, though. HBO gets all these high-end dramas but never rakes in the digits that even regular cable networks aim for. How they get away with it I don't understand.

CBS doesn't care what ratings Showtime gets. All CBS cares about is what Showtime will pay for each episode. Showtime(and HBO) get a large portion of their revenue from subscriber fees. They don't need as many viewers since those viewers are paying ~$15/month to get the channel. If Showtime feels they can get enough people to subscribe to watch Star Trek they will be happy, even if they're not getting 3+ million/episode.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Thanks for that. I totally forgot the process, but it all makes sense again.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The one hope for decent Trek on TV is if Showtime thinks they can get a million or so Trekkies to subscribe. For premium cable, it's not about advertisers, it's about new subscribers (and not losing the existing ones).

Hmm. Maybe we should start a petition. "I will pay $15/month for Star Trek on Showtime!"

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Hmm. Maybe we should start a petition. "I will pay $15/month for Star Trek on Showtime!"

Petitions solve everything, you know!