What can the Star Trek movies learn from the recent Star Wars films?

[The Overlord]

What can the Star Trek movies learn from the recent Star Wars films? There has been a lot of backlash for various reasons (both legitimate and illegitimate) against the recent Star Wars films.

I think the best lesson is to have a road map for the Star Trek films, Star Wars did not have a road map and became a mess. The 3 reboot Star Trek films had no road map and were kinda a mess too, that second film came out too late and was bad and the third film did disappointing numbers at the box office.

Another lesson, no more nostalgia baiting, the Star Trek and Star Wars films under Abrams got really bad for that and it became distracting. Stop trying to remake Wrath of Khan with these Star Trek films.

 

[Armus]

No Mary Sue lead characters!

Hire a writer/director who likes Star Trek but can bring a freshness to it. Stop trying to turn Star Trek into something it isn't. Make smaller less expensive movies(and shorter in length too). Sign the actors to multi-picture contracts.

 

[F. King Daniel]

What to take away: That even the biggest space franchise ever burns out after 3 (main) movies so Trek shouldn't feel so bad.

 

[Khan 2.0]

don't bring back Shatner as Kirk to have him hide away somewhere remote not wanting to help when the new character comes callling ..then kill him off in some bizarre wa... oh wait

 

[Malaika]

Don't rely too much on nostalgia; have a plan and, possibly, one creative team making the trilogy to avoid behind the scenes drama with different writers and directors losing track.

Star wars also 'ruined' the happy end of the original characters/movies making it all depressing for all the old beloved characters; for old fans it might have been a hard to swallow pill and a tad unnecessary too.
This is a flaw a lot of sequels made by new writers have. It seems obligatory that you gotta take the happy end from the original characters and 'break' them at any cost..they don't understand that audiences don't like that, and too often it comes across as completely unnecessary when you have new characters. People don't like new creative teams coming in and 'ditching' or undoing everything the other team did.

 

[Dukhat]

People don't like new creative teams coming in and 'ditching' or undoing everything the other team did.

Amen.

 

[mdtauk]

• Keep J J Abrams away from it
  
• Tell a complete story... or
• ... plan a sequel before making the first
• Be ORIGINAL
• Character, quiet moments, heart - include them

 

[Kor]

That Star Wars is simply more popular among general movie-going audiences, and there's nothing that Star Trek can do about it.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

Don't rely too much on nostalgia; have a plan and, possibly, one creative team making the trilogy to avoid behind the scenes drama with different writers and directors losing track.

This.

Character, quiet moments, heart - include them

That's why Trek 09 is good. It doesn't have a lot of quiet moments but it does have them, and the characters have great heart.

 

[Starbreaker]

Nostalgia is dead. TROS was critically panned. Terminator: Dark Fate and MIB: International flopped. It's time for something new.

 

[Vger23]

Marketing your films sometimes helps?

 

[Lord Garth]

What can they learn? Don't release one every year.

 

[Malaika]

This.


That's why Trek 09 is good. It doesn't have a lot of quiet moments but it does have them, and the characters have great heart.

What I appreciate about st09 is that..when vulcan gets destroyed, JJ allows the characters to have a series of quiet moments about it even if, in the reality of the story, a lot of things need to happen yet in a limited screentime.
The fast action pauses. Spock appears on that transport pad with his arm still stretched to desperately try to reach his mother. The camera shows his shocked face as he looks at the pad where his mother should've appeared . They show Sarek's heartbreaking subtle reaction.. and then Kirk, Sulu..and poor Chekov who.. you just know he feels guilty because he couldn't save Amanda (but it isn't his fault. In fact, the previous scene hints at how hard it was for them to beam Kirk and Sulu on the ship. He miraculously managed to do that, but the exception isn't a rule)

You get that log entry registered by Spock working as the voiceover for the scene in sickbay, and then it fades to him sitting in the captain's chair and then the tender, dignified moment between him and Uhura - that also works as the most effective way to reveal a deeper, intimate, surprising relationship between the characters that adds an important layer to them (for instance, the fact that from a narrative perspective it says that the characters do have a life - private, emotional - outside of their job and what you were allowed to see of them, or assume about them, up that moment.)

Also, back to the scene in sickbay ..at one point the camera focuses on his lost face.. and the quiet sadness you see in him is so authentic to me. It really conveys how unreal it must feel to him, like he can't even begin to process what happened (for me, it also is one of those moments where he looks so young to me. There are scenes where he's intimidating and sure of himself like old Spock was but there are moments where you are reminded that he's still a young man and that strong facade he puts isn't all of him)
For a moment, behind him, you see his dad looking in his direction as if he wants to go to him but he joins the other vulcans instead. It's little details but they add so much. I never for a moment got the idea the movie was portraying Sarek as cold or a bad father. I actually feel sorry for him too because my impression is he was trying his best but it's very hard for him too, he just expresses that differently. His own arc is resolved when he, lastly, tells Spock that he loved Amanda. That gives them both a lot of closure, IMO, and gives more character growth to Sarek that one would assume. I consider that scene, alone, a key moment for kelvin Spock that made me believe he would never become the same guy tos Spock was, unless the writers wanted him to have an involution.


I think one gotta respect movies for their own genre of course, thus have realistic, reasonable expectations; I understand that they have a very limited screentime (if you think about how much they film but then they have to sacrifice during editing. .), but action scenes and special effects aren't mutually exclusive with the story also having heart. Your need to allow the characters to get quiet, personal moments too or the audience won't care.
Say what you want about JJ but he gets that. He actually added that kind of moment regardless the script, while Lin for example removed or minimized them in spite of having a script that originally had more character moments.

 

[Vger23]

Say what you want about JJ but he gets that. He actually added that kind of moment regardless the script, while Lin for example removed or minimized them in spite of having a script that originally had more character moments.

I'm not so sure I agree with this at all. I like the all Kelvinverse films to varying degrees, but I would never have said that the two films directed by Abrams did the "quiet character moments" better than Lin's film. Not in a million years.

Beyond was a less interesting story than either ID or '09, but it was those moments (and the quality of those moments) that elevated the film for me. Kirk's opening log, the scene with McCoy and Kirk having a drink, several scenes between Spock and McCoy exploring their friendship, Kirk contemplating not returning to the big chair, NuSpock absorbing the loss of Prime Spock, etc. There seemed to be way more of these moments in Beyond and they were of higher quality with regard to the characters and learning about them.

Into Darkness slowed down for 3 min to have Kirk and Pike reminisce about the bar fight in the previous film and another 2 min to have Kirk and Spock re-create the TWOK death scene. That's about it, really. The rest of it was a non-stop, dizzying, relentless assault on the senses that really never backed off. Not even for a moment. Maybe I'll give them the 2 min exposition dump with Khan crying in the brig....but it was exposition, not character development.

'09 had the moment you talked about (which I thought was great, but was maybe 2 min of screen time), the moment between young Spock and Sarek and then fade to older Spock and Amanda (great scene), and the scene with Pike and Kirk after the bar fight. Again, that's really it. The rest of the film just pounded you relentlessly with action, noise, and craziness. Fun...but certainly not what I'd call a character-focused film.

Again, I love these films and saw them all multiple times in the theater. But, I never would have said that JJ's take on Star Trek allowed for more of the quiet character moments than Lin's.

 

[fireproof78]

Nostalgia is dead. TROS was critically panned. Terminator: Dark Fate and MIB: International flopped. It's time for something new.

And Star Trek Picard is up and coming relying on familiar Trek elements, and "the most popular captain ever!!!!(echoes)." Nostalgia may be dying, but it isn't dead.

 

[Vger23]

And Star Trek Picard is up and coming relying on familiar Trek elements, and "the most popular captain ever!!!!(echoes)." Nostalgia may be dying, but it isn't dead.

Yeah, I'm not so sure nostalgia is dead, either.

In the examples given, TROS may have been critically panned, but it seems as though fans are more pleased than they were with the last SW film (although I personally liked TLJ) and it's been fairly successful at the box office it would seem. It sure as hell isn't a failure.

The Terminator franchise has been on a decline since T2...so I'm not sure this is a good example. I didn't get to see the new Terminator in the theater, but I do want to watch it.

I'm not sure I even knew that MIB had a new movie....so ok...I guess?

I think nostalgia is still very popular. The deal is that it needs to be better, higher-quality nostalgia than before probably. That doesn't mean it's dead. It just means that it's becoming the new norm, and people's standards are adjusting appropriately.

 

[JKM]

And Star Trek Picard is up and coming relying on familiar Trek elements, and "the most popular captain ever!!!!(echoes)." Nostalgia may be dying, but it isn't dead.

I know you're just echoing Star Trek.com media, but....Uhg I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. Most popular captain my ass. In my mind, that will be, always and forever, James T Kirk! Picard and Gen was the reason I was not a fan until the 09 Movie.

As far as the topic goes, JJ kinda did the same thing in both film verses to my mind, but the reason it didn't work in Star Wars was because that was not an alternate universe, though I'm sure a lot of fans wish it was after he was done with it. (Me, me!) On that last one, I almost walked out of the movie several times, but after paying that much, I tried to stick with it without groaning too loudly in exasperation. There were a few bright spots where I would start to forget and then get slapped in the face ten seconds later by more fan service. It wasn't just distracting, it made it unwatchable for me.

In Star Trek, he could throw in that boatload of nostalgia without choking people on it because even though it wasn't a remake of the Original series, it was an alternate universe of the original series. So it could closely mirror that without too much apology. That and lets be honest, how many of today's movie goers have even seen the original series? I hadn't when I watched the 09 movie. I actually had the thought that if I hadn't seen the first three Star Wars movies, I might actually think the new ones were good. Alas, I had and it felt like I was watching the original trilogy redone and Luke had a sex change.

So in short, yes I agree with other's sentiment that less of the fan service/nostalgia would be great moving forward. And more originality, though that could be called the same thing. If you lean less on what came before, you'd hope what fills the gaps would be new ideas.

Also just to put it on the record, I don't agree that the new Star Trek movies were a mess. STID had a few things that could've been tweaked, such as leaving John Harrison as John and not Kahn, and nixing the Khan scream or at least making where he just yelled in anguish as opposed to Khan's name. I would've been 100% happy with it after that. Still am about 99% happy with it right now though. It's the best of the three in my book.

 

[Tarek71]

Tough question. I think the latest SW trilogy suffered from not having one single creative vision and team in control from beginning to end. The Last Jedi especially was a mess. It also tried to recapture the feel of the original trilogy to address perceived problems with the prequel trilogy, but in the end it did not just try to recapture a feel, it copied the originals down to their story beats.

To unoriginality in story you can add little originality in film making. The previous trilogies were cinematic-ally groundbreaking in a way that the newest trilogy was not. Classic characters known and loved and emotionally invested in by 100s of millions were squandered. For writers to be given the handling of characters with such immense cultural cache and mishandle them this badly was genuinely extraordinary. The newest trilogy was a catalog of missed opportunities.

Lessons for Trek? One single creative vision. Life doesnt end at 60, so you dont have to rapidly kill off or sideline legacy characters in order for new characters to shine. Recapturing "the feel" (Ex: Pikes Enterprise) should not limit originality in story. Visually, Disco has been good and sometimes beautiful. Budget permitting, innovative TV film-making wows audiences and set's the bar high for everyone else.

 

[Starbreaker]

And Star Trek Picard is up and coming relying on familiar Trek elements, and "the most popular captain ever!!!!(echoes)." Nostalgia may be dying, but it isn't dead.

At least it's not Season 33 of TNG

 

[fireproof78]

At least it's not Season 33 of TNG

Right...