What bugs me the most about canon violations

[C.E. Evans]

What bugs me the most about canon violations is that there hasn't been any canon violations.

Canon only matters to those wishing to produce and sell Star Trek merchandise. All of the Star Trek shows and movies are canon. Joe-Bob's Star Trek fan film isn't.

 

[Gary7]

A new Star Trek show could shred the canon to ribbons, but if they were telling an interesting story with compelling characters, it's a great show in my opinion. Canon is this thing that I put aside first and foremost with a new Trek show, and only consider it as a curiosity or when it adds rather than prevents. Lethe did a great job with this with its Sarek revelations. But yes, canon should never be the basis upon which a show's quality is judged. Canon adherence =/= good show, and a good show does not require canon adherence.

People get used to how things happened earlier... TOS-->TNG-->DS9-->VOY... they were all respective to the same Star Trek canon. ENT deviated quite dramatically (Borg? C'mon...). I don't consider ENT a precursor to TOS. It was its own timeline.
Of course, to call a series "Star Trek" there has to be some resemblance to the original spirit and major premises of the show. Deviate too much and you can't call it Star Trek. I'm also in full agreement that if a show is very well produced and acted, it doesn't matter if fails to be "true" to Star Trek canon. That is, unless it's a major deviation. At that point, don't call it Star Trek.
Star Trek discovery is such a dramatic departure from what we've experienced in Star Trek, I think they should have just called it "Discovery". Leave off "Star Trek."

 

[Mattadd]

People get used to how things happened earlier... TOS-->TNG-->DS9-->VOY... they were all respective to the same Star Trek canon. ENT deviated quite dramatically (Borg? C'mon...). I don't consider ENT a precursor to TOS. It was its own timeline.

Borg were perfectly fine being in ENT canonically. ENT is a prequel to TOS, but in that respect it's also a sequel to STVIII: First Contact. Time travel shenanigans.

 

[Mattadd]

I think not all canon violations are equal. Changing the Trill for example isn't a big deal because they had only been in one episode. When you change the Klingons though they have looked more or less the same with a few oddities since TMP and the Culture as been more of less the same once Worf basically defined them and that lasted over 20 years and was very popular.

Also some changes people can sort of, head-canon their way out of them and others are harder to do and some feel so unimportant it feels irrelevant and sometimes their is no logic to it all. It kind of bugs me for example to see Sisko wearing his comm badge in the wrong place on "DS9" for the first couple of ep's after they got the new uniforms but O'Brien going for years on "TNG" with a rank that is wrong doesn't faze me. Perhaps the only difference is in how distracting the change is more than anything else an then you have those times when they seem to be mistakes made simply because of lack of attention to the small details. Is their any reason why Riker had to have the TNG comm badge instead of the updated one when Q brought him to "Voyager" in that one ep. Seems like a simple thing to catch and fix.

Jason

This is a sentiment I 100% agree with. And I have to completely disagree with the OP when they say the Klingons are only different by appearance. Comparing DIS Klingons to TNG Klingons I can see no cultural similarities whatsoever. They might as well be a completely new species.

 

[JesterFace]

When it comes to canon violations, I think what VOY did with the Borg was dumb.

According to Voyager, the first contact didn't happen in TNG's 'Q Who', but by some shuttle which went to the other side of the galaxy surprisingly fast and already knew they were looking for a cube shaped ship... what?

Later Enterprise-D arrives to the delta quadrant with the help of Q, encounter a Borg ship and they have no clue what's going on. Riiight...

 

[USS Triumphant]

I have no problem with willfully and knowingly made changes to tell a good story - though I may grumble if it involves a change I don't care for personally (looking at you, Remans). And I don't mind little production errors (James R Kirk on the headstone).

What I DO mind is sloppy inconsistency. Canon isn't the end-all-be-all, but c'mon, guys, if you're going to make an episode regarding a historical event mentioned in a previous episode, you can at least look up what was previously established about it. If you THEN decide to tell it differently because you have a good story to tell, that's fine - but maybe also figure out why the history books had it wrong, or at least leave room for the fans to do so. We like doing that, or at least I do.

As for Discovery, the showrunners have my trust for now - some of them really seem to be fans, and when they say that it will all come together and to be patient, I'm willing to allow them more than 6 episodes, especially when the episodes are this well-done and entertaining. I once searched 5 years for an album by my favorite artist - and enjoyed the search almost as much as the album. I'm okay with rolling this show around in my mouth and exploring the complex flavors and nuances for a while before deciding how I feel about it overall.

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm with #TeamHeadCannon

 

[1001001]

When it comes to canon violations, I think what VOY did with the Borg was dumb.

According to Voyager, the first contact didn't happen in TNG's 'Q Who', but by some shuttle which went to the other side of the galaxy surprisingly fast and already knew they were looking for a cube shaped ship... what?

Later Enterprise-D arrives to the delta quadrant with the help of Q, encounter a Borg ship and they have no clue what's going on. Riiight...

This is easily explained by the events in Generations.

 

[Jayson1]

When it comes to canon violations, I think what VOY did with the Borg was dumb.

According to Voyager, the first contact didn't happen in TNG's 'Q Who', but by some shuttle which went to the other side of the galaxy surprisingly fast and already knew they were looking for a cube shaped ship... what?

Later Enterprise-D arrives to the delta quadrant with the help of Q, encounter a Borg ship and they have no clue what's going on. Riiight...

To me this is one I can get around through head canon. Between the incident with the Borg on "Enterprise" and who knows what the Al-Aurians told anyone about what happen to their homeworld and who knows what other possible Borg encounters that might have happend to AQ species I could see the Borg being kind of known as a urban legend of sorts. Basically they were might have been Bigfoot and it wasn't until Q offically introduced them that they were finally revealed as being a true species. Granted why Gunian herself never said anything or why it seems many of most must have kept it a secret is unknown. Perhaps they were afraid of humans or others making the mistake of trying to go meet them.

Jason

 

[Gary7]

This is easily explained by the events in Generations.

You mean the Nexus? I don't see how the Borg timeline is updated here.

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

I love how my post about how all series have made canon violations and that we used to have fun with that idea but now get mad at prequels for doing the same shit has devolved into what is or isn't a canon violation and which ones are more acceptable.

 

[1001001]

You mean the Nexus? I don't see how the Borg timeline is updated here.

Guinan is rescued by the Enterprise. Her world was destroyed by the Borg.

She is debriefed by Starfleet after her rescue. She tells them about the Borg.

Starfleet classifies the knowledge Top Secret, and begins to scout and prepare.

The Hansens, part of the science team assigned to this new Top Secret problem, become obsessed and go rogue, leading to their ultimate fate.

Easy Peasy.

 

[at Quark's]

Depends on the type of canon violations. If in episode x Picard's ship has a different name than in episode y, I really don't care.

However, if they'd suddenly show characters that always had been honourable in star trek tradition as manipulative, lying, and secretive, I could get angry about it.

So, I wasn't initially that happy with the 'retconned' vulcans in Enterprise, at least, unless I chose to interpret it as that human-vulcan contact had been beneficial for both races, over the long run.

EDIT: should have written: Picard's first ship.

 

[Gary7]

Guinan is rescued by the Enterprise. Her world was destroyed by the Borg.

She is debriefed by Starfleet after her rescue. She tells them about the Borg.

Starfleet classifies the knowledge Top Secret, and begins to scout and prepare.

The Hansens, part of the science team assigned to this new Top Secret problem, become obsessed and go rogue, leading to their ultimate fate.

Easy Peasy.

Got it. So it was Top Secret enough that they didn't debrief Picard about it, nor make any information available in the data banks. Thus, the Enterprise D had no info when "Q" whisked them to the Delta quadrant for a little visit.

It does seem to be an incredibly long period of time, across 3 versions of the Enterprise (B, C, D), without any divulging. You'd expect all Starfleet captains to be briefed on the Borg so they'd know what they're in for if discovered.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Easy Peasy.

Lemon squeezey.

Sorry.

 

[USS Triumphant]

It does seem to be an incredibly long period of time, across 3 versions of the Enterprise (B, C, D), without any divulging. You'd expect all Starfleet captains to be briefed on the Borg so they'd know what they're in for if discovered.

Actually, if that was the only issue, then that long duration might have been working against them. Perhaps Rachel Garrett *would* have been briefed on them. But with no additional contact in all of that time, Picard's briefings focused on more pressing known threats. The part that *doesn't* explain is why there was no information that Picard and crew could unlock regarding them in the Enterprise-D's computers, but, I think I can cover that: Between the information that Section 31 and possibly Starfleet Intelligence retrieved from Crewman Daniels' quarters aboard the NX-01, and whatever the crew of the -E may have disclosed to Cochrane and Sloan during the events of Star Trek: First Contact, the information may have been classified well above Top Secret, because of the threat to the timeline. They already knew certain events had to unfold a certain way. (As an aside, there's one of the old books - Starfleet Operations Manual, maybe? Can't recall - that has a memo regarding the United States military classifying some of the information they had gathered during the Kirk and crew's visits to the 20th century for similar reasons. It'd be nice to think our government had that much control and foresight, but I frankly doubt it. Non-canonical, anyway. Neat, though. )

 

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

So, I wasn't initially that happy with the 'retconned' vulcans in Enterprise, at least, unless I chose to interpret it as that human-vulcan contact had been beneficial for both races, over the long run.

Spock and Tuvok were honorable. Vulcans as a race were a bunch of smug, arrogant, deceitful, spiteful assholes. ENT's Vulcans fit perfectly with how Vulcan society has always been portrayed, aside from two heroic characters.

See "Amok Time", "Journey to Babel", "Sarek", "The First Duty" (Captain Satelk, a Vulcan jerkass), "The Forsaken", "Rules of Engagement" and "Field of Fire". Or just generally watch how any Vulcan guest character is portrayed. Even those who are in Starfleet will be smug and dismissive of anyone who isn't a Vulcan. Those who aren't are even worse.

 

[at Quark's]

^Perhaps you're right. I always considered Sarek himself honourable, though. Maybe the Vulcans surrounding him, less so.

 

[Mattadd]

Spock and Tuvok were honorable. Vulcans as a race were a bunch of smug, arrogant, deceitful, spiteful assholes. ENT's Vulcans fit perfectly with how Vulcan society has always been portrayed, aside from two heroic characters.

See "Amok Time", "Journey to Babel", "Sarek", "The First Duty" (Captain Satelk, a Vulcan jerkass), "The Forsaken", "Rules of Engagement" and "Field of Fire". Or just generally watch how any Vulcan guest character is portrayed. Even those who are in Starfleet will be smug and dismissive of anyone who isn't a Vulcan. Those who aren't are even worse.

Don't forget "Take Me Out to the Holosuite".

 

[USS Triumphant]

^Perhaps you're right. I always considered Sarek himself honourable, though. Maybe the Vulcans surrounding him, less so.

He estranged himself from his son for decades because he didn't approve of his choice of jobs. Perhaps he redeemed himself a bit before it was all over, but he was just as big an asshole a lot of other Vulcans that we've seen, really. Maybe he never actually spoke the line from "Spock's pain" in Star Trek V, but it sure wasn't any wonder that Spock *felt* that way.

That was one thing about the other actor's portrayal of him in ST09 that bothered me - he actually seemed too kind.