What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[XCV330]

It means that many Star Trek writers make the same mistake of assuming Vulcan emotional control is genetic even though we know for an explicit fact that it is not. .

Not many. Just the better ones.

Vulcanians are a different species from Humans and handle their sentience differently. A bottle nose dolphin may be as intelligent as a human being but their brains work in different ways. Nor are emotional responses going to be the same, species to species. As Death says in Pratchett's Mort "It's all a matter of glands." Rather I blame unimaginative writers who repeatedly attempt to homogenize every aspect of trek to bring it down to some non-alien level they are in their comfort zone dealing with.

present company excepted, of course

 

[knightgrace]

Sorry, I have been sick.

What I have noticed is that people generally tend to ignore a little something from our culture: according to the Holy Bible, we are to be 'Upright, self-controlled, and sober at all times...'

To be "Upright means to be mature.."

To be "self-controlled" means to not let emotional arguments sway our behavior.

To be sober, means that we remain, and not to rely upon drugs, such as wine, spirits, or beer.

Look at how many people die or are injured, because 'just one more...'

When someone is appealing to our emotions they are attempting to override our intellect, this has been found in Europe quite frequently (early National Socialist, Laborers and Workers Party of Germany) emotional storms are extremely dangoerous. Especially when heat, is aroused. Charles Tucker the Third, several times made the argument that humans have the right to emotionally express themselves, but, I add not when harms others. Emotional arguments always have an eventual over-the-top event, as society goes off the rails due to too much emotional appealing.

Self-control means that you use your intellect to understand what attempts are on going. Not being swayed by someone else's opinions but looking at the situation around you from an emotional neutral position.

In other words we are TO be Vulcan!

Passion is difficult to control but it is worth our while. Why? Because someone who has none to little emotional control is going to start leaving a trail of bodies behind themselves. Especially if they are intoxicated.

 

[Christopher]

Solok was the worst. His entire character arc is “antagonize Sisko”. You’d think being a petty little shit would be deemed illogical.

Logic is only as good as its initial premises. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Mudd]

Sorry, I have been sick.

What I have noticed is that people generally tend to ignore a little something from our culture: according to the Holy Bible, we are to be 'Upright, self-controlled, and sober at all times...'

Whose Bible?

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Sorry, I have been sick.

What I have noticed is that people generally tend to ignore a little something from our culture: according to the Holy Bible, we are to be 'Upright, self-controlled, and sober at all times...'

To be "Upright means to be mature.."

To be "self-controlled" means to not let emotional arguments sway our behavior.

To be sober, means that we remain, and not to rely upon drugs, such as wine, spirits, or beer.

Look at how many people die or are injured, because 'just one more...'

When someone is appealing to our emotions they are attempting to override our intellect, this has been found in Europe quite frequently (early National Socialist, Laborers and Workers Party of Germany) emotional storms are extremely dangoerous. Especially when heat, is aroused. Charles Tucker the Third, several times made the argument that humans have the right to emotionally express themselves, but, I add not when harms others. Emotional arguments always have an eventual over-the-top event, as society goes off the rails due to too much emotional appealing.

Self-control means that you use your intellect to understand what attempts are on going. Not being swayed by someone else's opinions but looking at the situation around you from an emotional neutral position.

In other words we are TO be Vulcan!

Passion is difficult to control but it is worth our while. Why? Because someone who has none to little emotional control is going to start leaving a trail of bodies behind themselves. Especially if they are intoxicated.

Marcus Aurelius put it similarly:
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realise this, and you will find strength”

 

[knightgrace]

There is only one Holy Bible. Different translations, however.

You also missed the point. The point is that in the Judao-Christian heritage, the thought is the same.

But Vulcans being far more out of control need to take self control seriously... because they are far more likely to kill than not.

 

[Firebird]

But Vulcans being far more out of control need to take self control seriously... because they are far more likely to kill than not.

You didn't just seriously pull the "it's in your blood" racism card?

 

[SantaEddie74]

THOSE WACKY VULCANS!! ™

 

[Mudd]

There is only one Holy Bible.

Bibles used by Catholics differ in the number and order of books from those typically found in Bibles used by Protestants, as Catholic bibles retain in their canon seven books that are regarded as non-canonical in Protestantism (though regarding them as non-canonical, many Protestant Bibles traditionally include these books and others as an intertestamental section known as the Apocrypha, totaling to an 80 book Bible, e.g. the King James Version with Apocrypha).[34] As such, its canon of Old Testament texts is somewhat larger than that in translations used by Protestants, which are typically based exclusively on the shorter Hebrew and Aramaic Masoretic Text.[35]

Link

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

There is only one Holy Bible. Different translations, however.

You also missed the point. The point is that in the Judao-Christian heritage, the thought is the same.

But Vulcans being far more out of control need to take self control seriously... because they are far more likely to kill than not.

Humans also will kill. Over stupid things! Like a football match going the wrong way.

The difference for Vulcans is that they have psionic powers. The Gambit episode shows why the logical path was so necessary to reduce the harm being inflicted during their wars, their nature was extremely unhinged in comparison to to the logic that they were creating weapons using mind powers.

MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions. Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors five thousand years before you were born!
(All our Yesterdays)

Why was this problematic? Because even without psionic weapons they could project to others:
ROI: Well, Vulcans have the same basic emotions we do. They've just learned to repress them. What I sensed during the concert was that he'd lost control.
PICARD: What would cause such a loss of control?
CRUSHER: There's a very rare condition that sometimes affects Vulcans over the age of two hundred. Bendii Syndrome. Its early symptoms include sudden bursts of emotion, mostly irrational anger. Eventually, all emotional control is lost.
PICARD: I can imagine nothing that would be more offensive to a Vulcan. Their emotional detachment is the very core of their being. How would this affect others on board the ship?
TROI: Vulcans possess telepathic ability. Sarek may unintentionally be projecting intense emotions onto other people, at random.
(~Sarek)

 

[Unionized Elf]

What I have noticed is that people generally tend to ignore a little something from our culture: according to the Holy Bible, we are to be 'Upright, self-controlled, and sober at all times...'

Not everyone is Christian.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Not everyone is Christian.

Or monotheist.

Though, I personally find the one sufficient

 

[Jason X-Mas]

I second this take. Few of the Vulcans seen in the era were very warm or friendly towards humans. I think Spock does the Lion's share of lifting for perception of Vulcans.

My controversial opinion: a stupid plot in Star Trek fits not make it less Star Trek.

Problem is Vulcan's have a reputation of being honorable and not even being able to lie. As great as Spock was I don't think one man could create such a image over a whole race. I notice some of the bad Vulcans we see tend to be in Starfleet. I think Vulcan's feel somewhat isolated since most aliens they encounter, wear their emotions on their sleeve.

PLus lots of them are just pragmatic. They bend their ethics because they know their lifestyle really only works for them but wouldn't work for almost any of the other cultures they meet.

 

[Santa Kang]

Problem is Vulcan's have a reputation of being honorable and not even being able to lie. As great as Spock was I don't think one man could create such a image over a whole race. I notice some of the bad Vulcans we see tend to be in Starfleet. I think Vulcan's feel somewhat isolated since most aliens they encounter, wear their emotions on their sleeve.

PLus lots of them are just pragmatic. They bend their ethics because they know their lifestyle really only works for them but wouldn't work for almost any of the other cultures they meet.

Spock was lying when he said that. And not for the first time.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

Spock was lying when he said that. And not for the first time.

I know but even Data talks about how Vulcans can't like and that was before he ever meet Spock in Unification. The reputation for sure got out in the public to a point where it was just seen as something Vulcans don't do. KInd of like how it seems some think that Vulcans don't have emotions at all. Even though it's been established their emotions are even more strong than humans, and they almost killed themselves because of it before Surak came along.

 

[Santa Kang]

I know but even Data talks about how Vulcans can't like and that was before he ever meet Spock in Unification. The reputation for sure got out in the public to a point where it was just seen as something Vulcans don't do. KInd of like how it seems some think that Vulcans don't have emotions at all. Even though it's been established their emotions are even more strong than humans, and they almost killed themselves because of it before Surak came along.

GIGO.
Vulcan spin control.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Problem is Vulcan's have a reputation of being honorable and not even being able to lie. As great as Spock was I don't think one man could create such a image over a whole race. I notice some of the bad Vulcans we see tend to be in Starfleet. I think Vulcan's feel somewhat isolated since most aliens they encounter, wear their emotions on their sleeve.

You don't have to do much to control perception. You have ambassadors and officers and that accounts for 1 percent of your population but 75 percent of the encounters outside Vulcan.

 

[Starflight]

I always like when Star Trek writes other species as genuinely alien in their cognition, rather than just as humans who look slightly different.

The idea of ancient Vulcans having emotional ranges more intense than humans to begin with, but that issue being compounded by unintentionally projecting aggression into others nearby, is really interesting just from a "how the hell do you get out of this societal nightmare" perspective.

I wonder if Vulcan self-control might be partly telepathic, which is why every time a Vulcan offers to show a human "meditation techniques" it invariably fails after about five minutes.

 

[Christopher]

I wonder if Vulcan self-control might be partly telepathic, which is why every time a Vulcan offers to show a human "meditation techniques" it invariably fails after about five minutes.

That seems unlikely, given that Vulcans in the first half of the 22nd century believed that "melders" were only a minority of their population. That proved erroneous, of course, but the fact that they were able to have that belief would suggest that the methods of emotional control they used did not rely on telepathy (unless it was in some subtle way that they weren't consciously aware of and could attribute to other factors).

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

(unless it was in some subtle way that they weren't consciously aware of and could attribute to other factors)

There was some hinting of that in "All Our Yesterdays." Far, far more so in the Blish adaptation than in the actual episode as filmed, edited, and released. But in any event, enough that the subject came up, as I recall, in discussions and/or critical analysis of the episode (almost certanly pre-TNG and pre-TrekBBS)