T'Pol asking if there are vegan options on a 2004 drive-thru menu is always amusing.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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That scene is always so weird when I think about this moment from All Our Yesterdays:
SPOCK: But insensitive, to send such a beautiful woman into exile. The cold must've affected me more than I realized. Please pay no attention.I'm not myself. I'm behaving disgracefully. I have eaten animal flesh and I have enjoyed it. What is wrong with me? I tell you you're beautiful. But you are beautiful. Is it so wrong to tell you so?
I'm sort of tempted to start a new thread on this one, but would it be controversial to consider the Federation's ideals far too out of reach for humanity?
The Federation - certainly circa the TNG era - looks like a utopia. Yes, there are some problems that crop up, and the external appearance masks some of those, but in comparison to what we have right now, the Federation certainly seems like a paradise. It seems no one wants for anything. We've done away with the sort of rampant capitalism that is presently destroying our world. No one is crippled by debt over medical expenses. It seems everyone has a home. No one is force to choose between energy bills and food.
Is it controversial to question if this is in fact a loftier vision of the future than ever? Or is it merely pragmatic?
The Federation - certainly circa the TNG era - looks like a utopia. Yes, there are some problems that crop up, and the external appearance masks some of those, but in comparison to what we have right now, the Federation certainly seems like a paradise. It seems no one wants for anything. We've done away with the sort of rampant capitalism that is presently destroying our world. No one is crippled by debt over medical expenses. It seems everyone has a home. No one is force to choose between energy bills and food.
Is it controversial to question if this is in fact a loftier vision of the future than ever? Or is it merely pragmatic?
But isn't the whole point that it's a Federation of Planets, not simply humanity? Humans needed to cooperate with Vulcans in order to overcome those challenges, and the Vulcans needed humans to help them cooperate with Andorians, etc.
It's also the technological developments that makes that post-scarcity utopia possible.
It's also the technological developments that makes that post-scarcity utopia possible.
As opposed to the peace and prosperity that reigned before the Enlightenment?
The Federation works (at least on Earth) because we have nearly unlimited energy and resources. We didn't learn how to distribute it or how to get along. According to Star Trek lore we bombed ourselves nearly into oblivion, discovered limitless power and interstellar travel, and we met the aliens. (And I don't think it is ever stated that Earth fixes itself by adopting any of the traditions or models of those aliens. Any of them.)
Just imagine: The ONLY wars would be over ideology rather than over energy or resources.
Interesting that in Alt Kirk's time in Tomorrow*3 that the Earth is uninhabitable after the Romulan War and will be that way for thousands of years, but in the main timeline we are able to turn the Earth into a paradise within two centuries of World War III.
When the Vulcans (post FC anyway) encounter the Earth they say "Hey! Warp drive!" rather than "Oh! A nuclear cinder!"
Well, yeah: In the SNW, his human side is unfettered. One he goes back to normal, he probably feels horrible about having allowed himself to not only eat bacon, but enjoy doing so.
O'Brien ate bacon and eggs on TNG.
Rom had bacon on DS9 but it made him sick.
Synthetic bacon, though...
The scary thing is that if replicated food can be detected as such that means its not identical. How much error has to be introduced to where the food isn't food when you're messing with stuff on the subatomic level? This isn't just "too much salt" but more like "salt isn't salt anymore".
I think there is mumbo jumboo about how replicators are not as accurate as transporters, right? Yikes. "Oh look! Ice nine! Oops!"
They're just food snobs.
They're just food snobs.
Klowahkan
Klowahkans were an ornithoid humanoid species native to the planet Klowahka. (LD: "A Farewell To Farms") The species had feathers in various colors, including varying shades of green, white, black, red, yellow, and blue, and were of average humanoid height. (LD: "A Farewell To Farms") Klowahkans...
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I mean, it’s just one line from a TOS episode that the writers/producers may have just decided to ignore to include a funny bit in the episode. They have ignored or tossed aside far bigger things.
Is there a conflict between the two scenes?
No. They're actually in agreement.
Tribbles are probably vegetarian. They eat raw quadro-tritacale, most animals that can digest raw grains have that as their primary food.
Roddenberry's vision of the future, as we saw in TNG is unrealistic but that is I think the point. The Roddenberry Vision is suppose to be aspirational but not a realistic look at how things can get better. Though the idea of something like a replicator being made being something that would change things I do think makes sense. But in the end we are suppose to want to strive for that perfection, even though we know our human nature will prevent us from fully achieving it.
There's a reason why Kirk's speech on Eminar VIII and Kelvin Kirk's speech at the end of Into Darkness resonates a lot more than much of TNG; it acknowledges the darker aspect of humanity. It doesn't sanitize, doesn't shy away from the discomfort, but presents a way forward out of the darkness.
TNG looks down on 20th century humans and decides we're unfit for evolution. And then says, "do better "
I prefer an example of how to be better than just being told to do better with no point of reference.
But it makes sense for them to look down at 20th Century humans. We kind of look down at how society was in the seventeenth century and so forth. From their perspective it makes sense to look at all the bad things we do in our century that they themselves never do anymore and think that way.
And I'm sure those far in the future will always look back on those in the past with similar eyes.
Not fully understanding the entire context of our lives and what we have to live with.
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