What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Don't worry, I hate TVH too. Just thinking about that camping sing-along makes me want to retch.Plus I've never been interested in that whole Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing (coming into the franchise with 90s Trek) so the movie really has nothing for me, personally.
Though I like the concept of Paradise City and the Planet of Galactic Peace, the move should have been about that.
Join the fandom of the X-Men comics. Nobody likes "Gen 1" there. Nobody.
As did IHad to look that one up!
TIL moment.
Gary Mitchell was the second-closest friend Kirk ever had after Spock. Even closer than McCoy would come to be.
I see what you did there.
Well the general idea is good but it's still the peak of the movie (that and "what does God need with a starship?")
McCoy in that observation lounge scene is definitely the show stealer. DeForest Kelley rarely hit it out of the park better as Leonard McCoy.
I'm not certain about that. Mitchell was Kirk's best friend since their academy days, but being early their careers, they never had the time to grow older in that friendship and share the perspectives brought by time and experience. With McCoy, Kirk had that time, along with feeding off of McCoy being a far more life-experienced person than Mitchell by the time of WNMHGB. McCoy and Kirk's relationship was one of respected equals, with McCoy providing the philosophical, earthy foundation Kirk needed that played a role in anchoring Kirk to his humanity while exploring the very non-human unknown.
I'm confused. I could have sworn you were a fan!
The Search for Spock is a movie I thought was a let down after The Wrath of Khan as a kid, and I can understand why audiences expecting another action movie might have been frustrated. It's kind of the Empire Strikes Back of Star Trek movies where it's a very bittersweet ending. The crew are fugitives, the Enterprise destroyed, Kirk's son is dead, and they have Spock back but it's not exactly the Spock they knew before (at least at first). I remember watching an interview where it was stated that Harve Bennett believed you had to basically "balance the equation" in order to make sure Spock's death didn't come off as cheap in Wrath. So you can bring Spock back, but you have to pay for it. And they do that with the Enterprise, David, and the cost to the crew.
Over the years I've come to really appreciate Search for Spock as an adult and it's become one of my favorite things Star Trek has ever done. I think it has some of the best and most important character moments of any of the films, especially for defining Kirk as a character. Search for Spock solidifies the idea of Star Trek being about the family we find in friends, with themes of loyalty and sacrifice.
Both McCoy's dialogue to Kirk while watching the Enterprise's hull burn, and Sarek grateful for what Kirk has done but can't exactly understand Kirk's actions through Vulcan logic, perfectly sums up Kirk better than anything else in the franchise.
Over the years I've come to really appreciate Search for Spock as an adult and it's become one of my favorite things Star Trek has ever done. I think it has some of the best and most important character moments of any of the films, especially for defining Kirk as a character. Search for Spock solidifies the idea of Star Trek being about the family we find in friends, with themes of loyalty and sacrifice.
Both McCoy's dialogue to Kirk while watching the Enterprise's hull burn, and Sarek grateful for what Kirk has done but can't exactly understand Kirk's actions through Vulcan logic, perfectly sums up Kirk better than anything else in the franchise.
KIRK: My God, Bones. What have I done?
MCCOY: What you do. What you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live.
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SAREK: Kirk, I thank you. What you have done ...
KIRK: What I did, I had to do.
SAREK: But at what cost? Your ship? Your son?
KIRK: If I hadn't tried, the cost would of been my soul.
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SAREK: Kirk, I thank you. What you have done ...
KIRK: What I did, I had to do.
SAREK: But at what cost? Your ship? Your son?
KIRK: If I hadn't tried, the cost would of been my soul.
TSFS swung the bat for a different kind of winning game than TWOK and I think it succeeded. It touches on some of the same themes as the previous movie but a bunch of new ones and I think it's the film that most successfully shows the TOS crew working together as a family for a common goal. James Horner's "Stealing the Enterprise" was and still is one of the seminal orchestral works created for this franchise and that scene in and outside of Spacedock is one of the most thrilling in the entire film series.
You know Captain Styles and the Excelsior are technically good guys even if he's a boastful, imperious ass and his new ship is an intimidating, state-of-the-art showboat for new technology. But it still feels like he's a genuine threat as he tries to stop Kirk and his officers from taking the Enterprise and running off with it. There's more tension in what's essentially a huge car backing out of a garage than there is for some entire battles in other Trek films.
You know Captain Styles and the Excelsior are technically good guys even if he's a boastful, imperious ass and his new ship is an intimidating, state-of-the-art showboat for new technology. But it still feels like he's a genuine threat as he tries to stop Kirk and his officers from taking the Enterprise and running off with it. There's more tension in what's essentially a huge car backing out of a garage than there is for some entire battles in other Trek films.
Stealing the Enterprise from TSFS is the most exhilarating sequence in the entire franchise.
TSFS tries very hard. For a long time I held it nearly equal with TWOK.
The live action photography is VERY cheap. Even on Star Trek terms. Even compared to TWOK.
There are Star Trek fans (you know who you are) who hold TWOK to a higher standard of "does this make sense?" than TOS ever was held to. But TSFS reeeeeealy runs with that. Even compared to TVH. Maybe it's that TWOK asks you to swallow one or two "does that make sense?" and TSFS has like nine. (Spacedock makes NO sense but it's so freaking cool and it's an ILM model from the height of their powers.)
BUT. The characters are pitch perfect. This is the FIRST ensemble Star Trek. EVER. (Not counting books.) TMP treated the extended cast pretty much like the show did. They may have been on the poster, but they didn't get any more to do than in the show. TWOK is pretty much the same. But TSFS gives everyone a moment to shine. They write Uhura out of the movie and she STILL has more to do than in TMP and TWOK. And that's the template for the next three movies. And obviously more so with TNG.
ILM's work is top notch.
And the emotional impact is, admittedly, unparalleled in Star Trek.
And Kirk. OMG Kirk. Shatner gives his last amazing performance as Captain James T. Kirk. After this he's still good. He's still watchable. But he's Shatner wearing Kirk's clothes. (To be fair, the last totally Spock performance Nimoy gave was TWOK. And the last GREAT Spock performance he gave was TMP. And he was never the same Spock that he was in TOS.)
It might be the most mixed bag of the TOS movies. Which is why you have credible fans looking at each other and saying "Did we even watch the same movie??"
But wow, what would Star Trek be like if it was the Romulan ship it was meant to be?
The live action photography is VERY cheap. Even on Star Trek terms. Even compared to TWOK.
There are Star Trek fans (you know who you are) who hold TWOK to a higher standard of "does this make sense?" than TOS ever was held to. But TSFS reeeeeealy runs with that. Even compared to TVH. Maybe it's that TWOK asks you to swallow one or two "does that make sense?" and TSFS has like nine. (Spacedock makes NO sense but it's so freaking cool and it's an ILM model from the height of their powers.)
BUT. The characters are pitch perfect. This is the FIRST ensemble Star Trek. EVER. (Not counting books.) TMP treated the extended cast pretty much like the show did. They may have been on the poster, but they didn't get any more to do than in the show. TWOK is pretty much the same. But TSFS gives everyone a moment to shine. They write Uhura out of the movie and she STILL has more to do than in TMP and TWOK. And that's the template for the next three movies. And obviously more so with TNG.
ILM's work is top notch.
And the emotional impact is, admittedly, unparalleled in Star Trek.
And Kirk. OMG Kirk. Shatner gives his last amazing performance as Captain James T. Kirk. After this he's still good. He's still watchable. But he's Shatner wearing Kirk's clothes. (To be fair, the last totally Spock performance Nimoy gave was TWOK. And the last GREAT Spock performance he gave was TMP. And he was never the same Spock that he was in TOS.)
It might be the most mixed bag of the TOS movies. Which is why you have credible fans looking at each other and saying "Did we even watch the same movie??"
It has it's charm. But it doesn't hold a candle to the D-7 or the K'T'inga.
But wow, what would Star Trek be like if it was the Romulan ship it was meant to be?
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