What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Citiprime]

That's because SNW has not yet ever been "just" fanwank, IMNVHO.

Spoiler

If the use of Khan in episode 3 of the current season isn't fanwank, I don't know what is. Khan is basically dropped into the story as part of Goldsman's "correction" to the timeline, but he serves no purpose beyond that. The story doesn't provide any new insight into the character, it doesn't do anything except to move up his birth 20 years.

It's not explicitly stated as being built in the 2160s. Background information for the film states that it was originally built by the United Earth Starfleet before the NX-01, and then when the Federation was formed in 2161 it was transferred to the Federation Starfleet.

It has an "NX" registry though, and the registry number is in the 300s. That would seem to indicate a relatively new ship.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm older than you and I can totally have nostalgia for the 90's. American Graffiti (from that Star Wars guy) was absolute nostalgia and it was set not even 15 years prior to when it was made.

There was FAR more change in fashion, clothing, music and culture in the 15 years from 1962 to 1977 than there's been in the 25 years from 1998 to 2023. Yes, there's been change in this century but, outside of computer tech, it's been a lot slower.

To keep it within Star Trek, the 2009 Film doesn't feel as old in 2023 as TMP did in 1993.

 

[Farscape One]

/
In Star Trek Beyond, Krall/Edison name drops the Xindi and the Earth-Romulan War, and the USS Franklin (NX-326) is introduced as one of the first of the "Warp 4 capable" ships created by Starfleet in the 2160s. But Star Trek: Enterprise takes place in the 2150s, and the NX-01 is the first of Starfleet's "Warp 5 capable" ships. So it doesn’t exactly fit.

But isn't it possible to want new characters and settings, and also think the ones they attempt aren't good? People didn't like the Ferengi in TNG season 1. That wasn't an indication that the show should just go back to the Klingons, because if they had done that we would have never gotten the Borg.

Beyond that, my issue is that people's criticisms about "memberberries" and "nostalgia" are highly selective. Some of the same people that denigrate Picard season 3 as being just "fanwank" will then praise and defend to the last Strange New Worlds when they decide to use a legacy character or namedrops some familiar things and places in a way that's tangential.

I was going to mention the Franklin from BEYOND, because it does require some mental gymnastics to make it work with what was previously established in ENTERPRISE.

 

[herofhyrule]

It has an "NX" registry though, and the registry number is in the 300s. That would seem to indicate a relatively new ship.

They could have given it a new registry when it joined the Federation Starfleet. Alternatively, starship registries may not be chronological.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think they won't do that. They've had multiple chances. In 2009, they had the perfect chance to do a complete break and, even there, they wouldn't fully commit to it.

Yep. No matter who is behind the franchise or runs the studio at any given time, they all know TOS is the face and heart of the franchise, which is what most from the casual viewer to the longtime fan appreciates. In 2009 Paramount knew the lackluster Berman era crashed and burned with one heartless TNG movie after another, and there was no mass fan call for DS9 or VOY to make the leap to the big screen, so the only rational choice was to return to that which made the franchise as inspiration.

One way or another, no matter the highly questionable outcomes of CBS-Trek, two of the series are TOS prequels. Even if the showrunners do not like or respect TOS (there's argument for that), they floor it back to that world in reference, some sort of retcon, or direct reference.

Its funny, some whine about all things TOS and love the direction of the CBS shows, but I doubt DISC or SNW were ever going be greenlit unless it was understood that there would be constant TOS references, instead of the mandate be one of a completely original concept that just so happened to be in the ST universe.

 

[herofhyrule]

There was no big call to put DS9 and VOY on the big screen because their stories were already concluded in the series themselves. If anything, fans wanted Season 5 of ENT more than a film.

 

[Commander Troi]

I don't think there's a huge segment watching week-to-week because they care the same way about Michael's and Book's relationship or Jurati's personal growth.

*hand raised* I do! I love Michael and Book's relationship and what they did with it. I *like* most of the DSC characters.

'people want interesting, not really just different or new'. I think that's the heart of the matter because even if you use familiar and used, people will watch if it's interesting.

Agreed! I think SNW is proof of that. Make something interesting and people will watch. Of course, based on some of what's out there, "interesting" may not be the criteria for everything.

Was there really much investment in Picard's relationship with Jack? The interest seemed to be almost exclusively the return of TNG elements. Jack was, in many ways, simply a walking mystery box. His lack of appeal would, I suspect, be very quickly revealed if he was to have a lead role in a new show.

I was more invested in Sydney than I was in Jack. No shade to the actor, but Jack just didn't really engage me as a character. Also, as someone who hasn't seen much VOY, I really enjoyed Seven as a character.

They revisit TOS because it's a) got the most familiarity and b) it's safe.

You don't want safe? Don't buy SNW, or anything TOS adjacent.

SNW has not yet ever been "just" fanwank, IMNVHO.

I don't think SNW is "safe". It's definitely not JUST fanwank, although they certainly have had some. I think SNW has taken chances with storytelling and character that elevate it to something more than mere nostalgia.

I'm older than you and I can totally have nostalgia for the 90's.

Yeah. The older I get, the more I think of something as "recent" and realize it was 20 or more years ago!

I was going to mention the Franklin from BEYOND, because it does require some mental gymnastics to make it work with what was previously established in ENTERPRISE.

Hang on, isn't BEY in an entirely different timeline than ENT? I was fairly sure of this...

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think SNW is "safe". It's definitely not JUST fanwank, although they certainly have had some. I think SNW has taken chances with storytelling and character that elevate it to something more than mere nostalgia.

It's trying. I still view it as very safe. It's predictable in it's episodic nature, and strives to please all by variety.

Hang on, isn't BEY in an entirely different timeline than ENT? I was fairly sure of this...

The branching occurs post ENT.

 

[Farscape One]

Hang on, isn't BEY in an entirely different timeline than ENT? I was fairly sure of this...

The Kelvin movies are a different timeline, yes, but the division point is the U.S.S. Kelvin and Kirk's birth. Everything that occured before that, including the series ENTERPRISE, happened the same way.

 

[herofhyrule]

Hang on, isn't BEY in an entirely different timeline than ENT? I was fairly sure of this...

ENT takes place from 2151-2155. The Kelvin Timeline splits from the Prime Timeline in 2233 (the year Kirk was born). That means ENT takes place in both the Prime and Kelvin Timelines. Admiral Archer and his "prized beagle" are referenced in Star Trek, and Admiral Marcus has a model of the NX-01 in his office in Into Darkness.

 

[Lord Garth]

Speaking of soft reboots, partial reboots... I just had a thought.

The last time we see TOS Kirk is in Generations. His death. The next time we see any type of James T. Kirk (not including archival footage) is the beginning of the 2009 Film when Kelvin Kirk is born. So, in a weird type of way -- in a metaphorical sense -- it's like reincarnation.

 

[Farscape One]

Speaking of soft reboots, partial reboots... I just had a thought.

The last time we see TOS Kirk is in Generations. His death. The next time we see any type of James T. Kirk (not including archival footage) is the beginning of the 2009 Film when Kelvin Kirk is born. So, in a weird type of way -- in a metaphorical sense -- it's like reincarnation.

DEEP THOUGHTS... by Jack Handey.

 

[Commander Dan]

- The TOS Bridge is offset 36 degrees.
- The refit Enterprise in an Enterprise class vessel.
- Saavik was half Romulan.
- The lower hull of the Grissom (STIII) was a sensor suite and unmanned.
- Voyager was better than DS9.

 

[herofhyrule]

- The TOS Bridge is offset 36 degrees.
- The refit Enterprise in an Enterprise class vessel.
- Saavik was half Romulan.
- The lower hull of the Grissom (STIII) was a sensor suite and unmanned.
- Voyager was better than DS9.

https://ibb.co/Hn7MGvQ
This diagram of the SS Vico from TNG: "Hero Worship" shows that the secondary hull of the Oberth class does have decks, although the Grissom may be different.
Also, Scotty's diagram of the Enterprise-A in The Undiscovered Country explicitly calls it a Constitution-class, and the refit original Enterprise and the Enterprise-A are the same class.
And I'm curious what you mean about the bridge being offset.

 

[fireproof78]

And I'm curious what you mean about the bridge being offset.

Oh hell no!

Here's a thread all about it. Wow did it go on.

 

[1001001]

Holy God…not the “Bridge is offset” thing.

 

[Commander Dan]

I mean, I thought the whole point of this particular thread was to merely express one's controversial Star Trek opinions. I didn't realize we were expected to open a whole can of gagh and explain our position. In any case, there's plenty of previous discussion out there on any of the "opinions" I listed...

 

[fireproof78]

I didn't realize we were expected to open a whole can of gagh and explain our position.

Well, it is a discussion board. We're bound to...discuss things...

 

[Oddish]

It would have been bizarrely funny in "Year of Hell" if Voyager's front had been ripped off in the final battle... and Janeway found herself looking out the side or back of the ship.

 

[herofhyrule]

Well, all I will say on the matter is who says that little bump on the exterior of the ship is the turbolift?
https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x22/byanyothername0215.jpg
But that thread also contains this screenshot from "By Any Other Name" where Chekov's console is somehow facing in the complete wrong direction. How did that even happen?