What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Orphalesion]

TNG... Seasons 1-2 are one vibe, seasons 3-4 is another, and 5-7 is the last vibe.

Personally I'd split TNG into Season one being it's own thing. Season 2 being it's own thing. Then Seasons 3-5 and then Seasons 6-7.

Because Season 1 was very awkward, Picard was an absolute asshole and hated everyone, but it also had this weird, exotic vibe about it that was absent from all other seasons.

In Season 2 the characters were a lot better and the show started to shift into what it would become, but the exotic vibe from season 1 was gone. It was also the Pulaski Era.

Seasons 3-5 were the hayday of the show for me. Picard was finally the character he's best known as, the other characters had mostly found their places too, Dr.Crusher was back and there were a lot of good stories.

Season 6-7 then were TNG in its decline, when it eventually devolved into Season 7 and early 90s beige. But it was also the era when they finally started to get the hang on Troi's character, put her in a uniform and she got episodes like "Face of the Enemy" .and "Thine own Self"

 

[Farscape One]

I get what you're saying, and for the most part I agree.

I guess I mean overall vibe, for me, in how I split the seasons.

Season 1 and 2 both felt like space was really dangerous, particularly season 2. I think that's why I put them both as the same vibe, if that makes any sense.

 

[Admiral Archer]

Any chance you meant the last two seasons of Enterprise? The first two seasons were probably the most Bermanesque Star Trek got, since he was a regular writer (I may be wrong, but I think that was the only time)

I meant what I said. I liked Enterprise because it wasn't bound by the constraints of being a true Star Trek show. It didn't even have the title "Star Trek" in it, at least not during the first two seasons. It was its own thing: a series about what happened years after Zephram Cochrane and the Phoenix, but even more years before Star Trek properly begins in TOS. Enterprise as a concept works because it ISN'T true Star Trek, it is a story set in the same universe, but the characters are still trying to earn that name for themselves. Once they added the Xindi War and the title "Star Trek Enterprise" in Season 3, I lost interest. I only came back once, to view These are the Voyages (due to Riker and Troi being brought in, which sounded exciting) but by then the show was over.

 

[Vger23]

Enterprise as a concept works because it ISN'T true Star Trek, it is a story set in the same universe, but the characters are still trying to earn that name for themselves.

I think I get your intent...but I'm not so sure I'd agree with this piece of it. I think just about anything can be "true Star Trek." ENT was just using a unique setting and (to some extent) format.

But it was still true Star Trek, in my opinion.

 

[Vger23]

Because Season 1 was very awkward, Picard was an absolute asshole and hated everyone, but it also had this weird, exotic vibe about it that was absent from all other seasons.

While I agree that the Picard character was far more formal and harsh than where he ended up in the series...I don't agree that he was a complete asshole who hated everyone. I think he needed to grow comfortable in his skin and develop a soft spot and love for his crew that (realistically) wouldn't automatically be there at the start of a new mission...but I don't think he hated anyone.

In Season 2 the characters were a lot better and the show started to shift into what it would become, but the exotic vibe from season 1 was gone. It was also the Pulaski Era.

I actually think the S2 vibe was more exotic than S1. Not by much, but I definitely think it is more "weird, dangerous sci-fi" centric than S1 if that's what you mean by "exotic"

Seasons 3-5 were the hayday of the show for me. Picard was finally the character he's best known as, the other characters had mostly found their places too, Dr.Crusher was back and there were a lot of good stories. .

I think the show was "peak" here as well...but I don't think the separation is a wide as many make it out to be. While the characters got better, the seasons were often peppered with "family drama of the week" stuff that wasn't always the best utilization of the sci-fi format. For me, that knocks it down a bit.

Season 6-7 then were TNG in its decline, when it eventually devolved into Season 7 and early 90s beige. But it was also the era when they finally started to get the hang on Troi's character, put her in a uniform and she got episodes like "Face of the Enemy" .and "Thine own Self"

Agree.

 

[Lord Garth]

Enterprise taking place before the Federation meant they could get away with Humans not acting Roddenberrian. But it still felt like Star Trek to me. The only problem was: it was also clearly Berman Trek, which felt stale by that point. The best episodes took advantage of the 22nd Century setting. The episodes that were basically TNG or VOY without the technobabble didn't fare so well.

That's the first two seasons. The third season is what I'd call "Star Trek for the 9/11 Era". Some of it lived up to its potential, but a lot of it didn't. And I'd take the last two seasons of DS9 over it for War Trek.

The fourth season was good. I liked how they started ramping up the prequel-ness.

Those were my takeaways from ENT when I binged it in 2010 and 2020.

 

[Vger23]

Enterprise taking place before the Federation meant they could get away with Humans not acting Roddenberrian. But it still felt like Star Trek to me. The only problem was: it was also clearly Berman Trek, which felt stale by that point. The best episodes took advantage of the 22nd Century setting. The episodes that were basically TNG or VOY without the technobabble didn't fare so well.

That's the first two seasons. The third season is what I'd call "Star Trek for the 9/11 Era". Some of it lived up to its potential, but a lot of it didn't. And I'd take the last two seasons of DS9 over it for War Trek.

The fourth season was good. I liked how they started ramping up the prequel-ness.

That "staleness" made me essentially drop ENT as a series out of boredom less than 1/2 way through the first season. I watched the show again / for the first time (I had seen a smattering of episodes across it's original broadcast, but not many) last summer...and I enjoyed it MUCH more. I think having the separation of time (where it wasn't premiering right on the heels of 3 other series made by the same people), and having a new set of expectations really helped me enjoy the show more.

 

[Annorax849]

TNG... Seasons 1-2 are one vibe, seasons 3-4 is another, and 5-7 is the last vibe.

That's sort of what I was saying earlier in the thread, though I might put 4-5 together and consider 3 sort of it's own thing.

 

[RichT]

Season 6-7 then were TNG in its decline, when it eventually devolved into Season 7 and early 90s beige. But it was also the era when they finally started to get the hang on Troi's character, put her in a uniform and she got episodes like "Face of the Enemy" .and "Thine own Self"

I've just rewatched a lot of TNG over the course of the last month or so and what struck me was how many good character moments Troi gets in season six and seven compared to earlier in the show. Marina Sirtis was clearly determined to make as much as she could out of the few scraps of material she got, and she makes for a more engaging and interesting character than I'd previously taken her for.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't know if this is "controversial" but here it goes...

I think the fact that Strange New Worlds was green-lit at all basically means there won't be another Star Trek movie for a long time. Even though it's Pike, Number One, and Spock instead of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, it's still essentially "TOS for Today". Which makes it too similar to the Kelvin Films.

 

[Orphalesion]

I've just rewatched a lot of TNG over the course of the last month or so and what struck me was how many good character moments Troi gets in season six and seven compared to earlier in the show. Marina Sirtis was clearly determined to make as much as she could out of the few scraps of material she got, and she makes for a more engaging and interesting character than I'd previously taken her for.

I agree. I think it's one of the tragedies of TNG that it took them almost 6 years to figure out how to use and write Troi effectively. She's a very different character in Seasons 6-7, both visually and in characterization.

 

[Lord Garth]

I agree. I think it's one of the tragedies of TNG that it took them almost 6 years to figure out how to use and write Troi effectively. She's a very different character in Seasons 6-7, both visually and in characterization.

That has a lot to do with Jeri Taylor being promoted to Showrunner while Michael Piller was on DS9.

 

[Vger23]

That has a lot to do with Jeri Taylor being promoted to Showrunner while Michael Piller was on DS9.

Amazingly (and perhaps...dare I say...controversially) I find as I rewatch the show with older eyes, Troi is one of the more entertaining TNG characrers.

 

[cooleddie74]

DS9 Worf was a lot better and more interesting than TNG Worf.

Wait, did you say "controversial"?

 

[Redshirt214]

I rather like TAS, Enterprise, and Voyager... basically all the ones people say aren't very good. In fairness, I also really like LD, TNG, DS9, and especially TOS. No accounting for taste I suppose.

 

[fireproof78]

Amazingly (and perhaps...dare I say...controversially) I find as I rewatch the show with older eyes, Troi is one of the more entertaining TNG characrers.

That did surprise as I attempt to watch TNG...she shows up Picard from time to time.

 

[The Realist]

There are exactly two great "Star Trek" movies. They both feature Khan.

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, you're right about one of them.

 

[Paul755]

DS9 Worf was a lot better and more interesting than TNG Worf.

Wait, did you say "controversial"?

not controversial to me at all. I’m watching a Worf/Jadzia heavy episode right now and it’s easily better than 98% of what he did on TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

not controversial to me at all. I’m watching a Worf/Jadzia heavy episode right now and it’s easily better than 98% of what he did on TNG.

His interactions with Martok almost made TNG era Klingons tolerable...almost.