What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

You’re right, it’s so SO bad. Their movements are so lethargic and half assed. You can tell they’ve probably had to do multiple takes and the actresses are just tired—and boy does it show. Everything about that episode is abysmal.

Fighting on playground monkey bars didn't help.
 
You’re right, it’s so SO bad. Their movements are so lethargic and half assed. You can tell they’ve probably had to do multiple takes and the actresses are just tired—and boy does it show. Everything about that episode is abysmal.



DS9 had some impressive fight scenes, I’m thinking the climax of “Way of the Warrior”. Sisko was particularly badass in fight scenes. I still chuckle though each time I see someone do the double-hand punch ala Kirk. I think Kira does it several times. Why that’s a thing in Trek I have no idea.

Yet a few episodes later we had “To the Death” which had some really terrible fight scenes. I guess that was hurt by the fact they obviously cut so much footage. It’s hard to even follow what’s going on because the editing is poor and verging on incoherent.

If I remember correctly, "TO THE DEATH" was actually forced to edit down the fights at the end because it was deemed too violent. (Which would explain why the episode was less than the usual 44 minutes and 40-50 seconds run time, from start to end, not counting end credits.)
 
If I remember correctly, "TO THE DEATH" was actually forced to edit down the fights at the end because it was deemed too violent. (Which would explain why the episode was less than the usual 44 minutes and 40-50 seconds run time, from start to end, not counting end credits.)

I wonder if it has to do with the fact they were fighting with knives and blades, which is a lot grittier and less fantastical than Trek’s usual phaser fights. The action scenes and end of that episode were so jarringly abrupt, you can sense there’s a lot missing.
 
I wonder if it has to do with the fact they were fighting with knives and blades, which is a lot grittier and less fantastical than Trek’s usual phaser fights. The action scenes and end of that episode were so jarringly abrupt, you can sense there’s a lot missing.

Very likely. As far as I know, it's the only episode in the franchise that was edited down due to being too violent.

(I guess LeVar Burton was too effective a director. He always was one of the best of the actor-directors of the franchise.)
 
I wonder if it has to do with the fact they were fighting with knives and blades, which is a lot grittier and less fantastical than Trek’s usual phaser fights. The action scenes and end of that episode were so jarringly abrupt, you can sense there’s a lot missing.
Later I'll write something about how pre-nuTrek phaser fights SUCK! :nyah:
 
I don't know how Controversial this is, but...

DS9' Ferengi episodes are a hell of a lot better than they're stereotyped as. They mostly get that reputation from the god-awful "Profit and Lace" and the wet fart that is "The Emperor's New Cloak".
 
I don't know how Controversial this is, but...

DS9' Ferengi episodes are a hell of a lot better than they're stereotyped as. They mostly get that reputation from the god-awful "Profit and Lace" and the wet fart that is "The Emperor's New Cloak".
I'll counter that and say that "Profit and Lace" is not that much worse than the average Ferengi episode. More specifically not that much worse than your average Nagus episode.

Profit and Loss is an exception to the rule.

The flowchart from good / great to terrible: Quark episode -> Ferengi episode -> Nagus episode.
 
I'll counter that and say that "Profit and Lace" is not that much worse than the average Ferengi episode. More specifically not that much worse than your average Nagus episode.

Profit and Loss is an exception to the rule.

The flowchart from good / great to terrible: Quark episode -> Ferengi episode -> Nagus episode.

I think most of them are actually pretty great. If I were to order them:
Business as Usual
Body Parts
Bar Association
Magnificent Ferengi
Little Green Men
Rules of Acquisition
Family Business
Ferengi Love Songs
Prophet Motive
The Nagus

All of those are good to great, I think. Only Profit and Lace and Emperor's New Cloak fall short. Way, way short.
 
I don't know how Controversial this is, but...

DS9' Ferengi episodes are a hell of a lot better than they're stereotyped as. They mostly get that reputation from the god-awful "Profit and Lace" and the wet fart that is "The Emperor's New Cloak".

Very true. Compare DS9's Ferengi episodes to TNG, VOY, and ENT.

VOY - "FALSE PROFITS" and "INSIDE MAN"... both terrible.

ENT - "ACQUISITION"... abysmal.

TNG - most were bad, but a couple were okay. ("The Battle" was decent, and "Peak Performance" was superb, though that was merely an appearance as the end villain, not the main part of the story... very little of them were seen, which worked here.)

DS9 did FAR better with their Ferengi episodes. Huge credit to Ira Steven Behr (who wrote or co-wrote nearly all of the Ferengi centered episodes) and Armin Shimerman for accomplishing this.
 
Most of the time, I found the Ferengi to be more amusing than threatening. The only characters that consistently made me laugh more, was John deLancie's version of Q.
 
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Very true. Compare DS9's Ferengi episodes to TNG, VOY, and ENT.

VOY - "FALSE PROFITS" and "INSIDE MAN"... both terrible.

ENT - "ACQUISITION"... abysmal.

TNG - most were bad, but a couple were okay. ("The Battle" was decent, and "Peak Performance" was superb, though that was merely an appearance as the end villain, not the main part of the story... very little of them were seen, which worked here.)

DS9 did FAR better with their Ferengi episodes. Huge credit to Ira Steven Behr (who wrote or co-wrote nearly all of the Ferengi centered episodes) and Armin Shimerman for accomplishing this.

Yeah, Ira Behr is to the Ferengi what Ron Moore is to Klingons and Dorothy Fontana to Vulcans.

I think the big difference between DS9 and everyone else is that in DS9, the Ferengi were treated like they had an actual culture and reasons for what they did beyond just one-note "Profit, profit, profit!"
 
Yeah, Ira Behr is to the Ferengi what Ron Moore is to Klingons and Dorothy Fontana to Vulcans.

I think the big difference between DS9 and everyone else is that in DS9, the Ferengi were treated like they had an actual culture and reasons for what they did beyond just one-note "Profit, profit, profit!"

I bolded the part of your quote I am responding to.

Bingo! Hit the nail on the head.
 
Yeah, Ira Behr is to the Ferengi what Ron Moore is to Klingons and Dorothy Fontana to Vulcans.

I think the big difference between DS9 and everyone else is that in DS9, the Ferengi were treated like they had an actual culture and reasons for what they did beyond just one-note "Profit, profit, profit!"
Just from the limited amount of info on the "TNG" bonus material, I always thought Mrs. Fontana was a short-lived writer for that show, who was fired for disagreeing with Gene Roddenberry. But I looked her up anyway, and it turned out she wrote ten episode of "TOS", five of "TNG", and one each of "TAS", "DS9", and "New Voyages". She also wrote one novel for Pocket Books, called "Vulcan's Glory", and an IDW comic book titled "The Enterprise Experiment". She also wrote the scripts for Bethesda Softworks video games "Star Trek: Legacy" and "Star Trek: Tactical Assault". Todd Vaughn, the company's VP of Development, described Mrs. Fontana as "one of Star Trek's most prolific and distinguished writers".

Sadly, she passed away in 2019, from cancer. :(
 
Just from the limited amount of info on the "TNG" bonus material, I always thought Mrs. Fontana was a short-lived writer for that show, who was fired for disagreeing with Gene Roddenberry. But I looked her up anyway, and it turned out she wrote ten episode of "TOS", five of "TNG", and one each of "TAS", "DS9", and "New Voyages". She also wrote one novel for Pocket Books, called "Vulcan's Glory", and an IDW comic book titled "The Enterprise Experiment". She also wrote the scripts for Bethesda Softworks video games "Star Trek: Legacy" and "Star Trek: Tactical Assault". Todd Vaughn, the company's VP of Development, described Mrs. Fontana as "one of Star Trek's most prolific and distinguished writers".

Sadly, she passed away in 2019, from cancer. :(

Yes, I have tremendous respect for Fontana and what she accomplished. She was one of the architects of Star Trek.
 
A lot of fans LOATHED the Ferengi episodes back in the day, whereas I generally found them hugely enjoyable. I think the hate was strangely prophetic though. By “Profit and Lace” and “Emperor’s New Cloak” they’d become unutterably abysmal. But there were so many fun instalments before that, not least “Little Green Men” and “The Magnificent Ferengi”.
 
Just from the limited amount of info on the "TNG" bonus material, I always thought Mrs. Fontana was a short-lived writer for that show, who was fired for disagreeing with Gene Roddenberry. But I looked her up anyway, and it turned out she wrote ten episode of "TOS", five of "TNG", and one each of "TAS", "DS9", and "New Voyages". She also wrote one novel for Pocket Books, called "Vulcan's Glory", and an IDW comic book titled "The Enterprise Experiment". She also wrote the scripts for Bethesda Softworks video games "Star Trek: Legacy" and "Star Trek: Tactical Assault". Todd Vaughn, the company's VP of Development, described Mrs. Fontana as "one of Star Trek's most prolific and distinguished writers".

Sadly, she passed away in 2019, from cancer. :(
Legendary.
 
Just from the limited amount of info on the "TNG" bonus material, I always thought Mrs. Fontana was a short-lived writer for that show, who was fired for disagreeing with Gene Roddenberry. But I looked her up anyway, and it turned out she wrote ten episode of "TOS", five of "TNG", and one each of "TAS", "DS9", and "New Voyages". She also wrote one novel for Pocket Books, called "Vulcan's Glory", and an IDW comic book titled "The Enterprise Experiment". She also wrote the scripts for Bethesda Softworks video games "Star Trek: Legacy" and "Star Trek: Tactical Assault". Todd Vaughn, the company's VP of Development, described Mrs. Fontana as "one of Star Trek's most prolific and distinguished writers".

Sadly, she passed away in 2019, from cancer. :(
I'm glad you've discovered Dorothy! She's one of my heroes - she went from being Gene's secretary to an essential builder of Star Trek. Just an amazing woman.
 
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