Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.
I... I'm sorry.
While maybe not a good “cinematic” outing, it’s arguable it’s the most like an episode of the TNG TV show, certainly more so than the other three.
Which was fine...for a hotel lobby or waiting room.
As a ship of business it was ugly.
That was very strange to me. Crusher's choices seemed very odd, and highly reactionary to everything in her life.
Here's a bit of controversy... Bajor made the right call in "Sanctuary".
Don't get me wrong, I've no issue with immigration when it's done right. But Bajor, at that time, was a devastated mess that could barely take care of its own citizens. However, the real justification lay in the Federation's presence and total willingness to render aid. The Federation was an immense polity with nearly infinite recources at its disposal, including whole uninhabited planets. Essentially, Bajor was just letting someone else address the problem.
I also thought the Skreeans were being complete brats at the end. Haneek was making Kira feel bad, even though they got an entire planet for themselves?
Talk about entitled, bratty behavior.
The Skreeans were pretty terrible in the end. It was basically a case of, “Hey, we understand your plight. We’re here to help you. Here, you can have any planet you want except that one.”
“But we WANT that one!! How dare you not give us that one.”
“But all these other planets would be perfect for you!”
“But we WANT THAT ONE!!”
Right. I can sort of understand Haneek's behavior at the end... anyone who'd just lost a child can be forgiven that. But, she was acting pissy before the accident, too.
Yes, she was operating off a prophecy her people had received... but we see from "Destiny" that even a prophecy that comes to pass can easily be misinterpreted.
Not sure how controversial that opinion really is. I mean as already pointed out, habitable worlds are reasonably abundant in the Star Trek universe this is why allegories like this one and whatever they were trying with the Maquis always fall flat. They aren't in the same situation as people in real life who face that issue. In real life we don't have whole uninhabited worlds for people to migrate to or to give to refugees. The Federation has, enough so that they can keep colonizing them.
They tried to "justify" it by saying the Skeerans had a religious reason to settle on Bajor, but that's not a reason that will resonate with everybody.
Of course if we get into all that, we could also point out that all of Bajor's problems could be easily solved if they just joined the Federation.
That's why DS9 should have had an eighth season, to have that finally happen. As well as other loose ends.
In any case, I wonder why things were that bad to begin with. For instance, in "Rivals", when Quark was talking about the orphans not having blankets. Maybe the Federation couldn't easily address a global famine, but you can't tell me that they couldn't have handled a few thousand blankets!
I always had the impression that they didn't help/help more because the government of Bajor had the mindset that they wanted to be able to take care of themselves before they joined the Federations.
Which, in my opinion, was a very flimsy idea and makes me really surprised that it didn't make the average people suffering on Bajor a lot angrier or cause mass migration from Bajor into the Federation.
For all we know, the average Bajoran was angry at the government for not addressing such things. Given the disconnect between our own politicians and actual people, I find this a very likely scenario. Especially when you consider the events of "SHAKAAR". (His words to Kira about being on the station too long and not seeing the problems of feeding their own people but talking about exporting goods, for instance.)
There's also another thing to consider... the Occupation. A lot of Bajorans could also not be keen on the idea of accepting too much help because they might feel there is a price tag attached.
It was Ira Steven Behr's aim that Bajor would NOT join the Federation.
It was celebrated (as someone here has said) as "channeling" Kelley. Which I thought was not needed and not accurate in any event. It's like when everyone said Christian Slater was some sort of reincarnation of Jack Nicholson. Maybe if you had only watched people doing impressions of Nicholson. Or Kelley.
Because the series ended when the war did. An 8th season, postwar, would have addressed that. Plus more Ezri development, and maybe they could have let her relationship with Bashir develop instead of just "happen". TNG and VOY were out of gas, and ENT was cut down too early... but DS9 still had potential for new directions.
Even so, after saving the entire Alpha Quadrant, wouldn't an 8th season have felt anticlimactic if it 'only' dealt with Bajor joining the Federation?
Yes, but the lead writer's goal was that 7 seasons, 8 seasons, or 15, Bajor was NOT going to join the Federation and he saw sees that as admirable.
As good as that writing team was, I'm certain they would have made it work without it feeling anticlimactic. Plus, there's the rebuilding efforts of the Alpha Quadrant, too... that's sure to bring some really interesting stories. (What worlds get priority on supplies and rebuilding, trauma suffered by occupied worlds like Betazed, a potential galactic issue with the Federation helping to rebuild Cardassia when they gave the Dominion a foothold into the Alpha Quadrant to begin with, etc.)
Why would it be so important to not have Bajor join the Federation?
(Don't get me wrong, I don't need to see Bajor join, myself. An open end would be fine with me. It's just that I don't see any point in making sure it won't join, either.)
I actually sort of agree with Behr here. I don't remember why he didn't want Bajor to join, but my thinking is this...
I think it is admirable for a world that went through what it did in 50 years of Occupation to be able to stand on its own without the need to rely on or be a part of a greater galactic power.
That sends an inspiring message... going through all the horrible stuff but still manage to stand up, dust yourself off, and build yourself back up. On your own. (For the most part.) It sends a message of independence, and the ability to take care of yourself and your people without having to rely on others.
I just know that if I was a Bajoran during the run of DS9, I'd be on the first trasnport ship to the Federation. But I'm aware that not everybody thinks that way.
Yes and I think it was one of his stupider hang-ups (of which there were a number)
The problem with this is...Federation membership offers a whole lot of advantages, with zero disadvantages and I don't find anything admirable about stubbornly refusing those advantages just for some abstract idea of "independence".
Personally I rather have prosperity and blankets for the orphans than some abstract idea of "independence" from a polity that, from what we have seen, would not interfere much/at all into how Bajor runs its society anyway.
Behr got a lot right. He developed his characters, even the ones who were starting to slip into the background. And he brought background characters into the foreground, too. And his promotions were exactly as they should have been.
But he did make a few mistakes. Having the Ferengi alliance basically transformed by one person. Introducing Section 31 and then ONE EPISODE LATER ignoring their existence. Invalidating Dax's death by bringing up a replacement one episode later. So, just because he thought Bajor shouldn't have joined the Federation didn't mean he was right.
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