What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[fireproof78]

Agreed. Section 31 is a shadow organization, not one that everyone should know about... to the point they have their own special badges that people identify. It's one of the main reasons why I rate DISCO season 2 so badly.

Well, it is "Special Operations" not "Section 31 badge.

People did not know what the badges meant. Hence the confusion.

31 has to have legitimate ways to operate in the open and existing chain of command otherwise it makes things needlessly complicated. Having legit ways to operate makes sense and is tropey as well (just watch MASH, NCIS, JAG, etc.) to see intelligence operatives claiming to operate in the shadows, yet using legitimate agencies as fronts.

It's when we see them every week for a whole season of a series or they take the main villain role in a movie that they just get tedious.

Controversial opinion: I'd rather Section 31 over Klingons.

 

[cooleddie74]

Both are getting tiresome.

 

[fireproof78]

Section 31 has to appear 20 more times to be as tiresome as the Klingons, approximately.

 

[Farscape One]

Well, it is "Special Operations" not "Section 31 badge.

People did not know what the badges meant. Hence the confusion.

31 has to have legitimate ways to operate in the open and existing chain of command otherwise it makes things needlessly complicated. Having legit ways to operate makes sense and is tropey as well (just watch MASH, NCIS, JAG, etc.) to see intelligence operatives claiming to operate in the shadows, yet using legitimate agencies as fronts.


Controversial opinion: I'd rather Section 31 over Klingons.

Fair point about the badges, though my point still stands on Section 31 being so well known.

Both are getting tiresome.

Regarding the Klingons being tiresome or overdone...

Both of you are dishonorable p'takhs!


(But this is the 'Controversial STAR TREK Opinions' thread, so rock on, guys. )

 

[fireproof78]

Fair point about the badges, though my point still stands on Section 31 being so well known.

Neither confirm nor deny.

 

[Lord Garth]

For DSC Season 2, I liked that they had Pike on one side, Leland on the other side, and Cornwell in the middle. Then, even within Section 31, you had internal strife with Georgiou constantly trying to undermine Leland to make him look bad, and Tyler trying to rationalize being part of Section 31 by saying he can reform it from the inside. Then Burnham having to deal with someone she used to have romantic feelings for being part of Section 31 and someone who looks like the woman she sees as a surrogate mother being part of it. With Pike, he was able to keep a professional distance and look at Section 31 as what it is and only cooperated with them because he was ordered to. With Burnham, it was harder because of the personal connections she felt she had to Tyler and Georgiou.

What I like about the Pike and Leland dynamic is that they used to be friends and DSC Season 2 shows the complete opposite paths their lives took after the Academy. And ultimately, Leland was killed and his corpse was taken over by Control. So Section 31 didn't work out so well for him after all.

 

[at Quark's]

The Dominion War is basically Star Trek's World War II, and I always saw parallels between the Section 31 virus and the use of nuclear weapons to end the Pacific War with Japan. They're both tactics which when considered in the abstract are atrocities. But what was the alternative when the enemy fights on, has to be made to surrender, and all the other options involve greater death and destruction?

2 important differences, though:

1) the use of the atomic bombs on Japan, though horrible, was never targeted at wiping out the entire Japanese people (or their entire ruling class, if you will) , they were being used as a brute force means to impress upon the enemy that defeat was inevitable. Had Our Heroes not found out about, and brought them the cure, I'm not sure section 31 would have volunteered the information themselves - they might still have been perfectly happy to let them all die. (Not that the Founders themselves were any better, I'll give you that).

2) The disease wasn't used to force an already defeated enemy that still refused to surrender. If anything, the war was going very well for the Founders at that point.

 

[Tallguy]

2) The disease wasn't used to force an already defeated enemy that still refused to surrender. If anything, the war was going very well for the Founders at that point.

Which way are you arguing here? How bad would the war have to go for the peoples of the Alpha Quadrant for this to become an option?

 

[fireproof78]

Section 31 is very much like the dark side in Star Trek. It is easier, a quick means to an end, and will achieve your goals at the cost of your values.

Again, this is not saying you have to like it. But I understand and welcome it as part of Star Trek, rather than having our heroes always doing the dirty work.

 

[at Quark's]

Which way are you arguing here? How bad would the war have to go for the peoples of the Alpha Quadrant for this to become an option?

I'm not necessarily arguing in any direction - just pointing out that in these aspects the situation of the atomic bomb is not comparable to the use of the virus.

 

[drt]

I even bought the soundtrack. (The X-Files: Fight the Future is right up there with Escape from LA as one of my favorite soundtracks from the decade.

Concur. The X-Files soundtrack is way better than most would expect.

 

[flandry84]

The S31 badge issue is interesting.
Given that most of their activities would be considered outside the rule of law,it would be important for the sections leaders to establish an espirit de corps.A specialist badge might seem a triviality but in paramilitary organisations these things matter and carry weight.

S31 members are drawn from Federation society and would presumably have the same moralistic foundations that any of our series’ regulars would have,although obviously S31 has drained that away.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm glad S31 was disbanded and forced back in the shadows, that's where they should be.

Not as a sub-division of StarFleet Intelligence.

 

[Tenacity]

without the Vorta and Founders telling them what to do, they'd probably do even more fighting, just more indiscriminatel

Without the Founders-Vortas the Jem-hadar would never have invaded the Federation.

 

[Shawnster]

Not as a sub-division of StarFleet Intelligence.

I find the idea of a clandestine ultra secret organization operating for 200+ to be much more terrifying, conspiracy theory style and unrealistic. I'd much rather them be ultimately accountable to the Federation as a legitimate intelligence agency ala CIA, NSA, or M5

 

[fireproof78]

Clandestine but operating through legitimate means.

Which I have seen more than once in Star Trek novels so it surprises me not a bit.

And unrealistic? The show with all the magic tech and a conspiracy organization is the "unrealistic" straw that broke the camel's back?

Alrighty.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I find the idea of a clandestine ultra secret organization operating for 200+ to be much more terrifying, conspiracy theory style and unrealistic. I'd much rather them be ultimately accountable to the Federation as a legitimate intelligence agency ala CIA, NSA, or M5

They're not nearly as scary if they're a branch of the government with a 3 letter acronym.

It's better that they're a clandestine ultra-secret cabal of individuals who perform actions on their own for the greater good of the UFP, but as part of a larger de-centralized organization.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Without the Founders-Vortas the Jem-hadar would never have invaded the Federation.

Without restraint from the Founders and Vorta, the Jem'Hadar go buck wild and attack the Federation, because that's what happened when a unit of Jem'Hadar stopped listening to their Vorta (and, by extension, the Founders)

Quoting "To the Death" (DS9):

WEYOUN: That's very shortsighted of you, Captain. Think about it. If the Jem'Hadar seize control of the Dominion, there'll be no stopping them. Even shutting down the wormhole won't protect the Alpha Quadrant. With the Gateway, they could put a million Jem'Hadar warriors on any Federation planet instantaneously. Would you care to see our projections of Federation casualties?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Without restraint from the Founders and Vorta, the Jem'Hadar go buck wild and attack the Federation, because that's what happened when a unit of Jem'Hadar stopped listening to their Vorta (and, by extension, the Founders)

Quoting "To the Death" (DS9):

Just as long as they have enough white.

If they quickly cut their population down to a few thousand over the next few years, from I suspect millions, then the white on hand could last for thousands of years.

 

[Malicia]

I see. How original.

Rick: It's very easy to sit on your backside all day.

Vyv: Not if you haven't got a bottom.