What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This isn't exactly controversial, but did ANY Trek series put on its strongest showing in the first season?

    TOS did, first two anyway. And Lower Decks and Picard have each only had one season, so we don't know how they're going to evolve. But TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and DSC have all had growing pains early on.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TAS S1 > TAS S2, but that's not really controversial. S2 had only 6 episodes, while S1 had 16, including what are generally thought of as the best TAS had to offer. When it comes to S2, in my experience "Albatross" is the one that gets praised most often. S1 has "Yesteryear" and other (relatively) strong ones.
     
  3. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Mudd's Women(TOS)" is the better episode compared to "I, Mudd(TOS)." I know the latter had a bigger budget and more interesting sets and the entire crew got to engage with Harry but the first episode has the stronger story and is a more atmospheric and interesting episode. Those earliest scripts penned by Roddenberry were more often than not pretty good.
     
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  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have you met counselors?
    Probably controversial but I still agree with it.
    Yup. And I've seen that since TNG and TMP. So I don't see this changing any time soon.

    Is it a visual reboot? If that term floats your boat then go for it. Honestly, they don't have to fit perfectly together, and if things change then it gets chalked up to artistic interpretation. Otherwise I wouldn't count TMP as the same continuity as TOS.

    Oh, wait...I don't ;)
     
  5. Quinton

    Quinton Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I pretty much agree with this, except that I'd add Season 3 to the list and have Season 2 join Season 1 as the rougher batch. Season 2 has a terrific enough end stretch to rank a good bit higher than 1, but it also has a middle that really does the rest a disservice, IMO.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's a lot of fun and quotability from "I, Mudd," but overall I agree, the mail-order bride episode is better, despite the absurdity of the premise and the reveal that just by believing in themselves the women can literally make themselves appear as if they're using the Venus drug.

    And now for the controversy: I like "Mudd's Passion" at least as well as "I, Mudd." The planet with the rock creatures is basically very exciting and dramatic, although it's undermined by a drawn-out exposition sequence for which the creatures stand at bay while Spock explains what's going on. The crew antics are amusing, as is the irony that the aftereffects of this love drug are hours of hatred.
     
  7. 1001001

    1001001 Do You Really Wanna Taste It? Moderator

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    Speaking of...

    The DSC Mudd episodes were way better than the TOS ones.
     
  8. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Have, man has a point.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Counselors may be neurotic, but they have to be able to seem sane. With eight previous personalities bouncing around in her head, that was a bit much for Ezri.

    Given proper Trill training, or ten years coming to terms with Dax and the other hosts, Ezri was/would have been probably a better counselor than ever.
     
  10. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

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    Beat me to it, I was going to say Rainn Wilson made for a great Harry Mudd.
     
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  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think this controversial.

    I think the first season of VOYAGER is the most solid of all the spinoffs. And this is from someone who calls DS9 my favorite and best of all the shows. I will point out that I am including the 4 holdovers... "PROJECTIONS", "ELOGIUM", "TWISTED", and "THE 37's". I think it was a mistake on UPN's part to do this, though I understand why they did so. "PROJECTIONS" alone helps elevate season 1.

    In fact, for the first time in all my rewatches, I will be watching season 1 exactly as produced. I was telling my wife about UPN and this issue and I feel that for her to get the best experience, this is the route to go. Plus, this way we are doing this as a first time for both of us. :) :)

    (Had DS9 not relied on borrowing TNG elements and writing tropes during their first season, it would have edged out VOYAGER's.)
     
  12. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I have to agree about Rainn Wilson. I was surprised at how good he was as Mudd. When I first heard about his casting, it was hard for me to imagine him as someone other than Dwight Schrute. But he definitely made it work.

    Now I wonder if he will encounter Captain Pike...
     
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  13. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

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    Fixed that for you:lol:
     
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  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the Mudd Short Trek, "The Escape Artist," was the best of the four S1 Short Treks by a wide margin.
     
  15. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd Commander Red Shirt

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    Him and Mose own the Beet Planet.
     
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  16. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My interest in the 24th Century currently only really goes to the extent of "Which specific parts of it tie into Picard?"
     
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  17. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    I just watched a few Trek fan productions on Youtube....there are no words :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  18. Sarxus

    Sarxus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Controversial Star Trek opinions? Alright, I'll have a blast now ^^

    -Star Trek: Generations is the best ST movie of all (ok, I'm not sure if this comes off that controversial, but at least I have hardly met anyone so far sharing that point of view).

    -Star Trek: The Final Frontier might not be the greatest ST movie, it's not even among the best ones, BUT it's actually far from being bad.

    -The seemingly common believe that every first season of the old ST shows was bad is nonsense. TNG season 1 for example has already so many little gems, it's actually awesome even though the real classic episodes came mostly with the later seasons.

    -Speaking of TNG season 1: "Justice" is a very good ST episode. The setpieces and costumes might look awkward, but I see that as an intended way of exaggerating and presenting the so-called paradise planet and its inhabitants in a satirical way. Besides, this presentation comes with a whole lot of TOS vibes. And the episode's plot and its final message are pure ST from the book.

    -Wesley Crusher is not THAT bad. He's far from being my favorite TNG character, but I never found him really annoying whatsoever and some episodes centred around him are actually quite strong (for example "Coming of Age", "Final Mission" or "Journey's End").

    -Sisko's actions and decisions in "In the Pale Moonlight" were right or at least reasonable in some way. From a moral and ethic point of view it was absolutely wrong, but at least you can actually understand why he did what he did and why he considered it necessary. He chose pragmatism and the need of the Romulans as allies over the moral code of the federation, and Garak only completed what he started, going the last steps Sisko himself probably wouldn't have gone.

    -ENT is an underrated show. I started watching it right after having watched TOS and throughout the first two seasons it actually felt like watching a modern version of TOS. Most episodes are very ST-like and whereas ENT is not one of the best ST shows, it definitely earns its place among them.

    -DIS is not unfitting as an ST show. It looks completely different than in the 60s, 80s and 90s (who would have thought?) and it follows a different approach than the classic shows (a serial instead of an episodic format), but all in all it definitely incorporates classic ST values and treats them well.

    -Despite looking completely different than TOS which is set only about ten years later, DIS takes place in the Prime timeline, not the Kelvin timeline.
     
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  19. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love it! I'll play!

    I like GEN, relatively speaking, compared to the preponderance of all available entertainment options. I think it's unfairly maligned amongst Trek fans as well. That said, I put in in the bottom 1/4 of Star Trek films...so I can't agree that it's the "best" overall one. Even the writers, in retrospect, cringe at some of the storytelling choices and plot contrivances the film depends on.

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    I agree on TNG S1. It is flawed and sophomoric in many places...but it's also wildly enjoyable in a way that the later, more polished and settled seasons of the series were not. That said, I find S1 of DS9 and ENT to be pretty bad, despite both of those shows having very good pilot episodes.

    I would say it's "good"....but I would not call it "very good." I think there's some interesting, classic Star Trek in "Justice."

    I agree. The hate this character has received is unwarranted, in my opinion.

    Great episode. Solidified Sisko as a man that could compete with Kirk as the "best captain" in the franchise. He doesn't get there or surpass him...but he closed the gap on the strength of this excellent episode.

    I agree. I watched ENT all the way through two years ago (I didn't watch much of it when it premiered) and I found it largely entertaining and interesting.

    I agree wholeheartedly. It is NOT without it's flaws and warts...but it's one of my top-3 Trek series.

    I totally agree. People can believe what they want (hey, I got a bunch of flack for saying I don't believe the events in the animated Lower Decks are to be taken seriously/literally), but we can be certian that the intent is that this takes place in continuity with the prime timeline.
     
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  20. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In order of your points...

    1. My wife would agree with you, though she has only seen the TNG ones. (I, however, do not agree.)

    2. I will agree that the movie does have some great character beats, and might be the closest in spirit to TOS.

    3. I don't know about awesome, but TNG season 1 is definitely better than what most people think. I also believe the same is true of DS9 and VOYAGER... in fact, despite DS9 being my favorite series, I would put VOYAGER season 1 as the most solid freshman season of the franchise since TOS. (Especially when you view the 4 holdover episodes as part of season 1 like intended.)

    4. I wouldn't call "Justice" very good, but it definitely has TOS vibes, and has a few good messages in it.

    5. I agree with you about Wesley, though not about "Journey's End".

    6. I completely agree with you.

    7. Definitely underrated series overall.

    8. Yes, but it definitely had more growing pains than most other spinoffs. However, it has earned itself the STAR TREK name.

    9. I agree.
     
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